as someone mentioned, it all depends on the situation. if you're planning on hitting some far, out of the way marine base with no healing nearby, then regen is the way to go. but if you want quick, massive damage attacks, then carapace is the pick.
in addition, with the second hive up, a lerk with regen can constantly umbra a fellow fade without retreating (too far). if the marines get smart and start shooting at you, just flutter around while the fade pummels them with ARs. you'll regenerate way too quickly for them to kill you.
well, if you're not smart enough to turn off the models that attempt to limit a players action and skill....thats your fault. So shame on <i>you</i> for letting a model cap your ability. I'll play with models off in any mod, in any game, until the end of time. And until they change it I have F bound to drawviewmodel 0 and V to 1.
I'm glad to see that this is a well known issue. The situation that screenshot was taken in, was I was heading to south loop and happened to see a marine camping on the res nozzle. He LOOKED at me and fired, and thats what my health was when i ran away. I was so flabergasted, that I just had to take that screenshot and post it on the forums.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 16 2003, 01:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 16 2003, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well, if you're not smart enough to turn off the models that attempt to limit a players action and skill....thats your fault. So shame on <i>you</i> for letting a model cap your ability. I'll play with models off in any mod, in any game, until the end of time. And until they change it I have F bound to drawviewmodel 0 and V to 1. And when they change set it to 1 in V1.1, i'll just fire up 3d studio max and make transparent models, or remove that infernal muzzle flash with a sprite editor. But thats off topic =)
I'm glad to see that this is a well known issue. The situation that screenshot was taken in, was I was heading to south loop and happened to see a marine camping on the res nozzle. He LOOKED at me and fired, and thats what my health was when i ran away. I was so flabergasted, that I just had to take that screenshot and post it on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They made the teeth for a reason. Shame on <b>you</b> for not learning how to aim properly as skulk. Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair adavantage that was never intended for NS. I admit I used it once to cheat, but it took all the fun out of NS to know I would suck when 1.1 came. So I learned how to adapt. You can cheat, but your comment has greatly reduced my and others' respect for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair advantage<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid model, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn em off.I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning models off is cheating, you're just a tard.
Actually, i firmly believe the model caps your ability to play NS the way it was meant to be played. Flayra had no intention of letting players turn off models when playing NS, and that is why they are lockign drawviewmodel for version 1.1.
going back on topic, carapace extends your longevity by over 2x. Tell me how that is flawed. As of now, the lerk is meant ot have tons of armor and very little health. In the end, it actuallly works out better when you have carapace compared to a skulk with lvl 3 carapace.
however, keep in mind that a pistol script marine would also not be an exploit according to your definition of exploiting.
It's my opinion that if you think that you're dying too quickly with a lerk, you're not playing it correctly.
A lerk is either a long-range sniper with spikes or a lightning-fast biter/umbra melee unit. That is, to be deadly, sitting back and using umbra for a fade isn't much of an offensive position.
Of course, this is coming from someone who's a rather good lerk (if I may say so myself <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), and some people are better at some things than others. *shrug* I just never really had a problem with the lerk lifespan, the things are supposed to be fast.
Really, some of you ppl are getting wayyyy too serious over these model cheats. The disadvantage the teeth give is so small that it's stupid to even argue. Personally, I would not even think to forgo things like hive sight, and the lack of feedback as to when you actually bit, just for a little cosmetic change. Sacrificing a real advantage such as Hive sight for a psychological change such as teeth is techically an cheat, but realistically, it's pointless.
The problem I have with the lerk is not dodging the bullets, but actually getting low enough to bite them! The glide should be controlled as well so I can do some dive bombs >=)
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 16 2003, 07:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 16 2003, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You had respect for me? wut from? lol
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair advantage<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid model, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn em off.I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning models off is cheating, you're just a tard.
This is getting off topic...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man you suck so much...
Just imagine wallhack user arguing about the cheat: <!--QuoteBegin--Unknown wallhacker+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unknown wallhacker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Fair player+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fair player)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Turning on the wallhack is giving you an unfair advantage <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid non-transparent walls, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn it on. I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning wallhack on is cheating, you're just a tard. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I recall that lerk flying is also getting reworked in 1.1 to make it easier. Therefore, the lerk can actulaly turn in midflight and do other sorts of crazy acrobatics, thus making general lerking a bit easier.
As for lerks not supposed to take damage when facing groups, remember, some marines have aim, save when the lerks do that flying in the celing bug. Some of the players are ex cs/tfc/dod players, all of which when you get good at you end up with rather extrodinary hitscan weapon aim, meaning all weapons but the grenade launcher. (marine weapons, that is.) Dodging is important, yes, but a combo of the way most maps are designed and how the lerks fly, you can't glide along the celing, so you have to wait a moment to really get full speed, or you'll get stuck in one of the various pipes/other cosmetics in the celing, and then you are basically dead. Situation is key.
Carapace is fine as it does add a good bit of life, making umbraing and melee hit and runs easier. Regen is good for lerks for spiking from a distance or from within a umbra when you have cover, so you dont die from 10 lmg bullets and can heal the damage you do take.
Fades are similar, really, at least I find so. (It's all in playing style, this is just mine.) If I'm looking to use blink alot and melee enemies, particularly attacking turret farms or anything of the sort, then carapace helps so I can last longer before I have to run for healing. Regen likewise helps when I'm someplace where I can attack marines and even bases from a distance without fear of taking too serious damage, so that I can constantly be on the battlefield, just not as useful as I would, should I have picked melee/carapace.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please point me in the direction of this magical server where dc's are every 5 steps on a map. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually by the time 2nd hive is up, someone will go "battle gorge" and advance with the fades/lerks toward marine base... webbing, healing, and DC throwing up when necessary. You'll find this on most servers where teamwork is involved on the aliens side just as much as the marines.
As far as the carapace vrs regen, etc. Whenever a fade dies I ask what defense upgrade he has, 9 times out of 10 it's not carapace.
Don't have much a problem with viewmodel thing. However if the NS team says it's unfair and their locking it, looking for loopholes around it isn't what I'd consider fair play. It's not your decision what is/isn't considered legal in NS, it's tourney directors, server admins, and the NS team. BTW, you should make it a toggle script, alot easier to manage <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Regen is mostly for hit and run, and even then a forward cluster of DCs work better.
Carapace is best for a lerk. I've tried the other stuff. Lerks die WAAAAY to easy. At least for not my style of play. I don't 'lurk' as a lerk, but I just get in there and start nibblin and spiking. I need that armor.
Well, at least we have the model consistancy variable. That is pretty sad Sobe, I could use that argument for any cheat/exploit possible. Especially OGC.
"i'll just fire up 3d studio max and make transparent models, or remove that infernal muzzle flash with a sprite editor. But thats off topic =)"
What are you going to do if and when they lock models?
Did Counter-Strike ever do that? I remember they were talking about it.
And oh yes.. In the early game, a careful regen lerk can do very well. It becomes less and less useful as more and more DCs spread out after hive 2. Considering you take almost 3 times as many bullets with level 3 carapace, though, I can see why people always pick that.
Zhang you are a jacka**. I would love to flame you and prove you wrong in every single point that you bring up but this is NOT the place. Email me so I can show you how stupid you are sobedragon@hotmail.com
gorthaur, you're a dumb a** too...<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just imagine wallhack user arguing about the cheat<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I mean, do you have any clue how STUPID you make yourself sound with that comment? Do you? Again, I would love to prove you wrong in every single respect, and make you run away crying, but this isnt the place. Email me so I can show you the light sobedragon@hotmail.com
Thanks for the people who stayed on topic, your insight has helped a lot. And thanks to the moderators for not locking the topic sooner. And a big FU goes out to those people who went WAY off topic and complained about me playing with my models off. This thread is offically done, I got my point across, and my questions were answered.
Zhang, and gorthaur, you NEED to email me. I have never wanted to use my debating skills more then on you 2. I'll send you both PM's with my contact information.
Regen and carapae both have there uses, once again if your up on a legde pesting a marine bast like refinery on bast regen is MUCHm better cause you can step back, heal abit then pester more, while with carapace you have to find defence chambers after awhile. Also I'd like to point out that REGEN on a fade + umbra lerk basicly makes the fade invulerable to anything but a grenade launcher, the few bullets that get thourgh are quickly healed by the 20 HP or so regen on fade.
Regen definitely helps alot for the guerilla lerk. Unfortunately, umbra may make a regen fade invincible, but it certainly doesn't make a regen lerk invincible. At the current percentage umbra blocks most but not all bullets. HMG's cut lerks down in umbra really fast, and firing 3/4 of an lmg clip at a non-carapaced lerk in umbra can usually kill it. LMG's are better than pistols against umbra lerks cause they have more bullets to fire, thus ensuring more damage gets through.
The easiest lerk to kill is the complacent lerk in an umbra cloud who thinks that it is invincible. By far, umbra lerks that don't run are easier to rush than fades.
On the other hand, make sure you don't get too close to an umbra'ed lerk. Alot will try to bite if you get too close, so only stay at the range to ensure that the lmg spread hits the lerk.
Due to the speed of lerks, I usually never evolve a defense upgrade until I get near the battlefield to check out the situation. Both are viable upgrades, but it all depends on which situation you're using it in.
Anyone here like to use lerk with redemption? I've rarely gotten it to work.
Comments
in addition, with the second hive up, a lerk with regen can constantly umbra a fellow fade without retreating (too far). if the marines get smart and start shooting at you, just flutter around while the fade pummels them with ARs. you'll regenerate way too quickly for them to kill you.
I'm glad to see that this is a well known issue. The situation that screenshot was taken in, was I was heading to south loop and happened to see a marine camping on the res nozzle. He LOOKED at me and fired, and thats what my health was when i ran away. I was so flabergasted, that I just had to take that screenshot and post it on the forums.
I'm glad to see that this is a well known issue. The situation that screenshot was taken in, was I was heading to south loop and happened to see a marine camping on the res nozzle. He LOOKED at me and fired, and thats what my health was when i ran away. I was so flabergasted, that I just had to take that screenshot and post it on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They made the teeth for a reason. Shame on <b>you</b> for not learning how to aim properly as skulk. Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair adavantage that was never intended for NS. I admit I used it once to cheat, but it took all the fun out of NS to know I would suck when 1.1 came. So I learned how to adapt. You can cheat, but your comment has greatly reduced my and others' respect for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair advantage<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid model, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn em off.I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning models off is cheating, you're just a tard.
This is getting off topic...
Flayra had no intention of letting players turn off models when playing NS, and that is why they are lockign drawviewmodel for version 1.1.
going back on topic, carapace extends your longevity by over 2x. Tell me how that is flawed. As of now, the lerk is meant ot have tons of armor and very little health. In the end, it actuallly works out better when you have carapace compared to a skulk with lvl 3 carapace.
however, keep in mind that a pistol script marine would also not be an exploit according to your definition of exploiting.
A lerk is either a long-range sniper with spikes or a lightning-fast biter/umbra melee unit. That is, to be deadly, sitting back and using umbra for a fade isn't much of an offensive position.
Of course, this is coming from someone who's a rather good lerk (if I may say so myself <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), and some people are better at some things than others. *shrug* I just never really had a problem with the lerk lifespan, the things are supposed to be fast.
The problem I have with the lerk is not dodging the bullets, but actually getting low enough to bite them! The glide should be controlled as well so I can do some dive bombs >=)
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 16 2003, 07:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 16 2003, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You had respect for me? wut from? lol
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turning off the teeth is giving you an unfair advantage<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid model, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn em off.I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning models off is cheating, you're just a tard.
This is getting off topic...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man you suck so much...
Just imagine wallhack user arguing about the cheat:
<!--QuoteBegin--Unknown wallhacker+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unknown wallhacker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Fair player+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fair player)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Turning on the wallhack is giving you an unfair advantage
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No its not, you can do it too!!! And its not cheating. You make the CHOICE to cap yourself cause of a stupid non-transparent walls, not me. So dont flame me cause you're not smart enough to turn it on. I hate to be flamy, but if you think turning wallhack on is cheating, you're just a tard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Therefore, the lerk can actulaly turn in midflight and do other sorts of crazy acrobatics, thus making general lerking a bit easier.
Carapace is fine as it does add a good bit of life, making umbraing and melee hit and runs easier. Regen is good for lerks for spiking from a distance or from within a umbra when you have cover, so you dont die from 10 lmg bullets and can heal the damage you do take.
Fades are similar, really, at least I find so. (It's all in playing style, this is just mine.) If I'm looking to use blink alot and melee enemies, particularly attacking turret farms or anything of the sort, then carapace helps so I can last longer before I have to run for healing. Regen likewise helps when I'm someplace where I can attack marines and even bases from a distance without fear of taking too serious damage, so that I can constantly be on the battlefield, just not as useful as I would, should I have picked melee/carapace.
Usually by the time 2nd hive is up, someone will go "battle gorge" and advance with the fades/lerks toward marine base... webbing, healing, and DC throwing up when necessary. You'll find this on most servers where teamwork is involved on the aliens side just as much as the marines.
As far as the carapace vrs regen, etc. Whenever a fade dies I ask what defense upgrade he has, 9 times out of 10 it's not carapace.
Don't have much a problem with viewmodel thing. However if the NS team says it's unfair and their locking it, looking for loopholes around it isn't what I'd consider fair play. It's not your decision what is/isn't considered legal in NS, it's tourney directors, server admins, and the NS team. BTW, you should make it a toggle script, alot easier to manage <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Blank
Carapace is best for a lerk. I've tried the other stuff. Lerks die WAAAAY to easy. At least for not my style of play. I don't 'lurk' as a lerk, but I just get in there and start nibblin and spiking. I need that armor.
What are you going to do if and when they lock models?
Did Counter-Strike ever do that? I remember they were talking about it.
And oh yes.. In the early game, a careful regen lerk can do very well. It becomes less and less useful as more and more DCs spread out after hive 2. Considering you take almost 3 times as many bullets with level 3 carapace, though, I can see why people always pick that.
gorthaur, you're a dumb a** too...<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just imagine wallhack user arguing about the cheat<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I mean, do you have any clue how STUPID you make yourself sound with that comment? Do you? Again, I would love to prove you wrong in every single respect, and make you run away crying, but this isnt the place. Email me so I can show you the light sobedragon@hotmail.com
Thanks for the people who stayed on topic, your insight has helped a lot. And thanks to the moderators for not locking the topic sooner. And a big FU goes out to those people who went WAY off topic and complained about me playing with my models off. This thread is offically done, I got my point across, and my questions were answered.
Zhang, and gorthaur, you NEED to email me. I have never wanted to use my debating skills more then on you 2. I'll send you both PM's with my contact information.
The easiest lerk to kill is the complacent lerk in an umbra cloud who thinks that it is invincible. By far, umbra lerks that don't run are easier to rush than fades.
On the other hand, make sure you don't get too close to an umbra'ed lerk. Alot will try to bite if you get too close, so only stay at the range to ensure that the lmg spread hits the lerk.
Due to the speed of lerks, I usually never evolve a defense upgrade until I get near the battlefield to check out the situation. Both are viable upgrades, but it all depends on which situation you're using it in.
Anyone here like to use lerk with redemption? I've rarely gotten it to work.