1337 Comm V Normal Comm

monster · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">wats the difference?</div> wats the difference between a '1337' comm and an 'average' comm..

okies.. only thing i can tell between a 'average' and 'noob' is that one has tactics and other doesn't..
piece of cake.. ne1 can get out of the 'noob' section pretty fast..
just watch a comm's build order and strat & copy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> (or read thru this forum)

and other thing is that one has fast reactions.. and the noob doesn't..
not really reactions.. just lots of keybinds and some past RTS minimap scrolling xperience <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

TF placing/ phase gate / getting RPs/ upgradin lvl1 armour/ MT / etc.. they all basically 'average' stuff now..

<b> So wat makes a comm 1337? </b>
and basically once u reach the point of knowing all the tactics on this forum and hav all ur keybinds memorized...
how do u get become a better comm??

Redford · February 2003

The skilled com looks after his marines. He drops health and ammo when they ask for it, or even when they do NOT ask for it. He uses any amount of RP needed to keep them alive and building that expansion.

The skilled com has a plan in mind. He knows what sorts of strats he likes, and possibly what strats he will try for this game. However, he also knows not to get caught up on one strat if it's failing, and to be flexible.

The skilled com knows his final goal is to eradicate all hives. This is generally accomplished either by rushing, building, or a combination of the two.

- Rushing means to move quickly to a hive location, and defeat it using the element of suprise. A mini is not created. Upgraded or unupgraded marines attack the hive repeadly (with possibly assistance from a phase gate, allthough that is the only building placed) until it dies.

- Building up is the other extreme. The commander does not move directly into a hive. Instead he makes a full minibase outside, possibly at a node if he can, and then puts pressure on it using phasing marines, tech, and siege turrets until it falls.

know a good plan to attack the hive with.

A skilled commander secures a single hive at the start of the game, allways. This prevents the aliens from gaining Onos and fubaring the marines. There are some strats (fast starting rushes, intensive rescource camping) that do not take hives and focus on a quick techup and defeat of enemy skulks at the first hive. These are not reccomended for public games. Relocaing to a hive is a viable strat, depending on the hive being secured.

Then skilled commander has done this before, and knows what he's doing. Nothing can replace experence in the chair. Even the smartest RTS player won't play perfectly his first game as com, and probally won't win, either.

Get in that chair and keep practicing, skilled commanders in pubs are lacking in NS. We need every one we can get.

Sykokaj · February 2003

Even the best commander cant win a game if his team of marines refuse to follow is orders.

When reading through this board (and I have been for a week or so) I see some ideas for strategy and tactics. If I play them, and succeed on one server, and then try them on another - chances are that alot of the players there will call me a "noob comm" - because they havent seen that strat before - and eventhough I usually win, I cant win with a team that doesnt trust their comm.

"A chain is only as strong as the weakest link"

In my eyes you are a "n00b comm" if you have no basic idea when you start - as soon as you have a plan, when you try to follow a strat, then you are a just a "comm"- and if your strat is good, you will be a "1337 comm" if your team backs you up.

BlueGhost · February 2003

A good/great com is a com who:

Keeps the overall picture of what is going on in his head without any problems.

Doesn't use formulaic stratagys.

Has near perfect building placement.

Uses every scrap of intel available and uses it propperly.

Always trys to win and never gives up.

BlueGhost

Question · February 2003

As a regular commander,i would have to say......

A l337 commander knows EXACTLY what he is doing at all times.He doesnt sit there wondering "should i take 1 more RT or go for the hive?".He can make split second GOOD decisions.He can multi-task amazingly well.....for example,while building an expansion,he can drop a medpack in the main base within 10 seconds of the text appearing.He knows exactly how many turrets will be needed,the most effective turret placement for each location in each map,when to get seige,when to gamble that the aliens wont try this or that.He can predict the alien strategy after a short while.He should constantly remind the marines with waypoints and text/voice of what their current orders are.New marines who join should know within seconds what the team is doing/should be doing.

Once i met this lamer.He was repeatedly going round saying that the whole server(except him and his friends) sucked.When i commented that the commander couldnt do anything if marines wouldnt obey orders,he repeatedly insisted that it was the COMMANDER's fault for not getting the marines to obey him.He even quoted Sun Tzu,which we all know doesnt count in a GAME.There is no "make marines obey orders" button for commander to press,sorry.The commander is and can never be at fault for the marine's inability to take orders.PARTICULARY if the marines are trying to blackmail the commander by saying "give us ha/hmg and we will listen to you,if you dont take care of us,we wont.".

BlueGhost · February 2003

Question lill tip for you.

Click each annoying marine, and then right click him.

You just told him to defend himself (which is all he's gonna be doing anyway) unfortunatly the waypoint on his screen will make it nigh on impossible to see anything...... oops.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

BlueGhost

Question · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueGhost @ Feb 12 2003, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Question lill tip for you.

Click each annoying marine, and then right click him.

You just told him to defend himself (which is all he's gonna be doing anyway) unfortunatly the waypoint on his screen will make it nigh on impossible to see anything...... oops.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

BlueGhost  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Excellent!

Next NS game when i comm i will definately do that.

ekent · February 2003

A few things I do to get marines on pubs to listen are: for instance, if I give a waypoint to a marine and he's hurt, I'll drop some health along the path to that waypoint. I'll generally give health to marines who are out ramboing even if they don't ask for it (though not that much) because it usually gives them a bit of a guilt complex, especially if they failed miserably at killing anything. If there are "field commanders" aka back seat commanders I'll usually give a lot of what they want even if it deviates from my plan because they're good at organizing the marines. If one of my marines does me the favor of guarding an area for a long period of time, I'll equip them over and over again, even if they suck. The other marines see this and get the idea <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>. Never underestimate the value of health drops. It only costs 2 res, it will bolster the morale of the marines who see or get it, and it will lower the morale of the aliens who see it.

If I have marines on my team who don't chatter much and obey orders unquestioningly, I don't pay them much attention (in terms of health or equipment). I'm deeply indebted to them, they're the guys who win my games, but they do well enough without my help. I pay attention to the problem marines.

Also, it is very important to determine who will get the first suits of heavy equipment you give out. If these people die, you're headed on the road to a loss. If they live long enough to equip the rest of the team, you're in very good shape. That's why I usually figure out who the guys are with the most deaths and give them nothing! Give the stuff to the guys who hang back in fear. The most value in the first jetpack or HA is the fear they inspire in the aliens.

GirDraxon · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Feb 12 2003, 04:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The skilled com looks after his marines. He drops health and ammo when they ask for it, or even when they do NOT ask for it. He uses any amount of RP needed to keep them alive and building that expansion.

The skilled com has a plan in mind. He knows what sorts of strats he likes, and possibly what strats he will try for this game. However, he also knows not to get caught up on one strat if it's failing, and to be flexible.

The skilled com knows his final goal is to eradicate all hives. This is generally accomplished either by rushing, building, or a combination of the two.

- Rushing means to move quickly to a hive location, and defeat it using the element of suprise. A mini is not created. Upgraded or unupgraded marines attack the hive repeadly (with possibly assistance from a phase gate, allthough that is the only building placed) until it dies.

- Building up is the other extreme. The commander does not move directly into a hive. Instead he makes a full minibase outside, possibly at a node if he can, and then puts pressure on it using phasing marines, tech, and siege turrets until it falls.

know a good plan to attack the hive with.

A skilled commander secures a single hive at the start of the game, allways. This prevents the aliens from gaining Onos and fubaring the marines. There are some strats (fast starting rushes, intensive rescource camping) that do not take hives and focus on a quick techup and defeat of enemy skulks at the first hive. These are not reccomended for public games. Relocaing to a hive is a viable strat, depending on the hive being secured.

Then skilled commander has done this before, and knows what he's doing. Nothing can replace experence in the chair. Even the smartest RTS player won't play perfectly his first game as com, and probally won't win, either.

Get in that chair and keep practicing, skilled commanders in pubs are lacking in NS. We need every one we can get.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A skilled commander secures a single hive at the start of the game, allways. This prevents the aliens from gaining Onos and fubaring the marines</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Why? Marines don't lose to Onos. They lose to wellfed Fades and Lerks. If you aren't doing a highly risky (post 1.04) two hive rush, then there's very little reason to secure a single hive. That strategy leads you down the "have two res points while constantly charging second hive while the aliens have all the res points" path which ends in you spending tons of resources keeping your marines alive and not upgrading, which then involves Fades and LErks wiping you out.

If you are going to secure a Hive, secure the INITIAL Alien Hive (i.e. primary hive rush). If you aren't going to do that or it fails, then its time to play resource ownage. Half the team goes offensive, killing Gorges and Alien res, generally keeping the skulks on the defensive, while a small defense team runs around and caps res points. All you really need is to have 3 res points chunking out res while keeping the Aliens to 1 res point. No hive is going up for a while with only 1 res point, and as soon as that hive goes up there's still not going to be the insta-spawn Fades.

I could care less if the Aliens have two hives if I have 6 res points. I could drop insta-turret farms and insta-equip the entire team at that point.

For experienced teams, the game is either RUSHRUSHRUSH or res control.

Nicator · February 2003

It is, however, much easier to control res if you control two different locations.

hoju2 · February 2003

Well I've played with both and one thing I've noticed was speed. A l337 Comm I recently played with had us seizing 2 Hives within a matter of minutes. Not a second or RP was wasted. After we had the Hives we took a lot of RN's. One trick I've never seen another Comm do was placing a TF that could cover 2 RN's, the build radius extended through the wall, although the RN's weren't in the same room, or even within walking distance. All the Turret placement was perfect and I don't think the Skulks ever destroyed a single building.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I could care less if the Aliens have two hives if I have 6 res points. I could drop insta-turret farms and insta-equip the entire team at that point.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>At the same time, you could care less if the ALIENS had 6 RN's if you control both Hives.

Chopper_Dave1 · February 2003

Probably one of the largest differences between the average commander and the 1337 commander is that the 1337 commander actually commands. The average commander knows a nice build strategy, and might even have a good plan, and could even be superbly good at multitasking and making split-second decisions. The best commanders, however, have a ton of charisma. You actually WANT to be commanded by them, because you know if you follow their orders, things will turn out all right. 1337 commanders don't take crap from anyone - don't think suggestions aren't as important as ever, since it can be integral to get a view from someone who's actually out in the field - but truly great commanders (to put it bluntly) won't be the team's b|tch.

It's a pretty delicate formula, and takes a ton of practice. You'll get it eventually though (hint: voicecomm helps a TON toward your credibility).

monster · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Probably one of the largest differences between the average commander and the 1337 commander is that the 1337 commander actually commands. The average commander knows a nice build strategy, and might even have a good plan, and could even be superbly good at multitasking and making split-second decisions. The best commanders, however, have a ton of charisma</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

thx chopper dave..
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
was the kind of answer i was looking for <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

but reading other ppl's posts.. u all go and say that u REWARD ppl and u PUNISH others (by not giving them stuff)..
but wouldn't the PUNISHING part = they hate u = charisma/reputation gone = not-so-leet comm nemore??

MedHead · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hoju2 @ Feb 12 2003, 09:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One trick I've never seen another Comm do was placing a TF that could cover 2 RN's, the build radius extended through the wall, although the RN's weren't in the same room, or even within walking distance.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Problem I see with that is that one attack on one resource nozzle leaves another undefended.

Question · February 2003

The probelm with "bribing" system is that,it,most of the time,doesnt help the team much.

Im not going to give a 1st time newbie ha/hmg just so that he will obey my orders when i can give someone that i know and respect and who doesnt need me to "bribe" him to get him to follow orders.

Lucid · February 2003

every marine is a fps player at heart. There are tons of NS players that come from CS, DoD, TFC, etc. They love being the hero, they love getting attention. So one quality of a "leet" comm is giving them that attention. Call them by their name and say:

"Lucid, i need you to cap me a nipple at station access."

"Where's my man Jo3 h4x0r? i need him to weld that phase."

"Yo NSplayer, I'm countin on you to help the team win this one. If you can camp this corner we can hit that fade from both sides."

I consider myself a decent comm but when I show a positive and caring attitude toward my marines i get comments that i don't think my skills are worthy of. I've commed losing games where the marines said i was a kick*** comm anyway.

oh and when you can't fufill a marines request try and kindly explain why so they don't get frustrated

PriestUTD · February 2003

Over the last couple of days I have been on teams with some absolutely lousy commanders. Their deficiency does not fall under their tactics, though, or even their build/research order. All of the above, in most cases, were well thought out and viable. However, the commanders lacked communication skills. Most would not use their voice-comm at all (there IS a reason that it is in Half Life now, use it!!!). This is frustrating to a Marine team when their commander is typing away orders. It takes so much longer to type out, "Look out behind you, a Skulk is creeping up." than it does to say, "Skulk behind you." We marines have very thin skin, easy to chomp on when we are caught unprepared.

Moving on to the other category of commanders that lack communication skills... The ones that see their job as only to get things building, but not direct the team with even waypoints or chat. Come on now! In three of the games that I played yesterday, the only order that a commander would give was to build defenses in the base. No, "You three attack here while two others guard here." No, "Hey, check your six because I read movement." No anything. This is NOT how a commander role should be played.

So how should it be played? I agree with several of the posters here already that the commander should show incredible attention to his marines. Make the most of the abilities and resources at your disposal. You have voice-comm, use it. As marines are walking into a room that you had motion in, let them know where it was, so that they can be prepared for it. A prepared marine generally means an alive marine, and an alive marine is a happy marine. You have waypoints, use them. Newer players especially can get turned around, even with that minimap up there to help them. Give them a destination, not just in words, but with something that they can see on their screen. Trust me, it helps out a lot. You are able to select more than one marine at a time. Jeez, that sounds like common sense. Drag a box over your marines and send them on a common task. I'm preaching to the choir here, but marines are MADE to be team players.

Anyways, I've gone on enough. One last thing. The definition of a leader is one who is able to coordinate a group of individuals to perform a task in an efficient and timely manner. More of us need to learn that.

Sykokaj · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Question @ Feb 13 2003, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The probelm with "bribing" system is that,it,most of the time,doesnt help the team much.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Perhaps not, but next time you play with the same marines - they know that if they do what you tell them, they have a better chance to succeed.
I dont know about you guys, but I have 4-6 favourite servers I play on. And I know a handfull of players there that will make a huge difference (and will be a pain to have as an enemy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

So it all comes down to respect, and reputation. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

And if I, and 3-4 others play as a team, we can usually get more to follow suit. Makes the game alot more fun.

(and its a thrill to be on the oposite team as the other good players, and then ruin their plans <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> )

Cry_Havoc · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chopper Dave @ Feb 12 2003, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The best commanders, however, have a ton of charisma.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And how exactly does charisma show itself?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Chopper_Dave1 · February 2003

Kinda hard to explain.

Having charisma means being able to gain your soldiers trust, and being able to manipulate them without them realizing it =). Doing certain things will net you brownie points amongst marine players. For example, if you can supply them with health or ammo before they even ask for it - and if they do, mere seconds following the request - then they'll like you better. Constantly issuing decent orders, whether through the interface or through voicecomm, nets you trust amongst player as well. Also, if you can constantly give marines something to do and make them feel important (i.e. addressing them by name, giving individual orders, allowing them to constantly take part in action) will give you more response from marine teams. Telling marines to defend a single location = bad. Telling them to build a phase gate, a few turrets, then harass nearby alien resources/hives as much as possible = good.

That's just in my own experience (but who's to say I'm a 1337 commander, no one I guess...)

trav · February 2003

i'd say the two most noticable differences between a good com and a great com are speed, and communication.

mainly because marines don't know a com is holding all the res points, researching several upgrades, and coordinating a strike on a hive unless they are told. it's easy to forget with overhead view, that marines see a relatively small picture. especially early game

of course lots of times a great com won't be recognised, because no matter how good he is, if he only has two marines in the field while the rest are sitting in spawn begging for equipment there's not much he can do. even if he's got over 100 resourses it is unlikely that giving them what they want will help the game for him very much, as they generally tend to loose it and continue to not follow orders and then beg for it again without leaving spawn

Question · February 2003

Im afraid "saying nice things" doesnt always work.

On my favourite servers,there are usually about 4 people on a GOOD day that keeps pretending not to understand english.

Excuse me,but no one believes that you cant speak the "international" language of earth.PARTICULARLY if you are living in a city-state like Singapore.

The only exception are the koreans who we all know refuses to teach english in school because of some crap invovling "western influence".

Not the point though.The point is something like this :

Me : A,guard main base please.
*A runs out to somewhere*
Me : A guard main base!
*A continues running all over the map ignoring waypoints*
Me : Wtf A guard main base!
*A continues pretending not to understand english*.

I developed a "reputation" of sorts by commanding and making little to no mistakes.Not "bribery".How good a commander is isnt measured by how many wins he has....why?Because of the marines.We always have people going "OMG OMG I WANT COOLZ STUFFZ!!!!!" or "OMG OMG LOOK AT HOW MANY M4D KILLZ I HAVE!!!!!".

Incidentally i have never realised why people refuse to ask me for medpacks when "the coast is clear".Its very weird.Do they really want to die while securing a hive or expansion?!

1337 Comm V Normal Comm

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