The Score
Stoneburg
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How does this sound?</div> Right now I think the score is both a bit useless and has a negative influence on the game. It is no secret that many online gamers care only for their score, and not about the team. Not having a score on the marine team is a good thing, and maybe it should be the same with aliens. However, I have another suggestion:
Make the score resource based instead of frag based. It's a resource and team game, not deathmatch, so why not have the score reflect that? The way it would work is that both sides get individual scores, and they are calculated on your resource-based actions. A couple of examples:
Marine kills an upgraded skulk
Marine = 3pt
Skulk = -3pt
Skulk kills a RT
Skulk = 22pt
Marines = -22pt
Etc etc. Basically you get a point for every enemy resource you destroy, and lose a point for every team resource you'waste'. This would mean that a Marine with HA+GL+Welder would need to kill either 68 vanilla skulks 1 upgraded Fade and a RT to "break even", while a LMG Marine just needs to kill a Skulk (and a Skulk just needs to kill a fresh Marine).
It would mean awesome points for 'hard' kills (a skulk killing the GL marine mentioned then dying would get 67pts) and in the long run it would probably have some great effects on how people play. Consider how some people are really cowardly, hiding in base, when they just have a LMG, but as soon as they get HA they rush off thinking they're Rambo, kill 3 skulks and die, thinking they're great. Now the resource-heavy people would be careful, and the expendable ones would act as if they were just that, expendable.
Also, as a COM, this would give me a better indication on who to equip.
The biggest problem is probably coding wise. I don't know anything about coding, I just play games, but this should be do-able. However, to make it fair you would also have to keep check on how much damage each person has done. If a fade for example gets the HA marine down to 1hp, then a skulk nips in and finishes him, the Fade should get the bigger part of the points. Same goes for structures of course.
Some other system would also have to be implemented for the Gorgs for obvious reasons. The negative score from destroyed structures should be shared by the team (both for marines and aliens).
Ahhhh anyway... I'm pretty damn tired, been up playing all night, so I doubt this is very well formulated. I have however been thinking about this for a while, so it's not one of those "great ideas" you usually get at 5 in the morning <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.
It does need a lot of tweaking, which is what I hope you will post here, but you should understand the main idea by now. At least give it some serious thought. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Make the score resource based instead of frag based. It's a resource and team game, not deathmatch, so why not have the score reflect that? The way it would work is that both sides get individual scores, and they are calculated on your resource-based actions. A couple of examples:
Marine kills an upgraded skulk
Marine = 3pt
Skulk = -3pt
Skulk kills a RT
Skulk = 22pt
Marines = -22pt
Etc etc. Basically you get a point for every enemy resource you destroy, and lose a point for every team resource you'waste'. This would mean that a Marine with HA+GL+Welder would need to kill either 68 vanilla skulks 1 upgraded Fade and a RT to "break even", while a LMG Marine just needs to kill a Skulk (and a Skulk just needs to kill a fresh Marine).
It would mean awesome points for 'hard' kills (a skulk killing the GL marine mentioned then dying would get 67pts) and in the long run it would probably have some great effects on how people play. Consider how some people are really cowardly, hiding in base, when they just have a LMG, but as soon as they get HA they rush off thinking they're Rambo, kill 3 skulks and die, thinking they're great. Now the resource-heavy people would be careful, and the expendable ones would act as if they were just that, expendable.
Also, as a COM, this would give me a better indication on who to equip.
The biggest problem is probably coding wise. I don't know anything about coding, I just play games, but this should be do-able. However, to make it fair you would also have to keep check on how much damage each person has done. If a fade for example gets the HA marine down to 1hp, then a skulk nips in and finishes him, the Fade should get the bigger part of the points. Same goes for structures of course.
Some other system would also have to be implemented for the Gorgs for obvious reasons. The negative score from destroyed structures should be shared by the team (both for marines and aliens).
Ahhhh anyway... I'm pretty damn tired, been up playing all night, so I doubt this is very well formulated. I have however been thinking about this for a while, so it's not one of those "great ideas" you usually get at 5 in the morning <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.
It does need a lot of tweaking, which is what I hope you will post here, but you should understand the main idea by now. At least give it some serious thought. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
There's no way to account for the simple fact that most kills are <b>not</b> only one person, without simply tracking damage done by any individual players. And then you run into problems with a 'killing blow' being perhaps hundreds of times the damage needed... do you cap that damage? Or use the full value? Or the average of the two? Any type of scoring system ends up arbitrary.
To be honest, just lose the entire kills/deaths scoring from the game itself, maybe figure out what stats Commanders want to see, <i>besides kills and deaths</i> and implement a list of those the Commander, and the Commander <u>alone</u> can see.
Either way, I enjoy his idea.
i also really like the idea of damage-based score board, in some simple figure it would allow people to see who really is the good team players and who arent.
(I had typed out a detailed example, but I guess it's pretty obvious...)
Just assume that every respawn (Including beginning the game) costs 1 resource (Marines actually do, aliens miss out on at least 1 while waiting to respawn), so R starts out as 1, and we avoid those nasty undefined fractions...
Every point of damage you inflict to a player or structure (Or your OC inflicts it, for the gorges), gets added to D... Every resource you spend on evolution/upgrades/building/picking-up-weapons gets added to R...
Ok, that's my two cents...
EDIT: Blah, stupid thing changed ( R ) to ®
Your like some Far left Politician taking political correctness to the insane extreme
Its a team Deathmatch game which is the collective skill of individual players.
Find something relevant to whine about.
Would be more of a team game for sure without score.
Should have a score for teamwork somehow.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Second, score for commanders only has been suggested but rejected by dev team because a reason like people will get into the CC just to check their score, or threat the comm they will do nothing if he doesn't tell them their score.
Referring to the subject, I would like to see scores based on damage as a percentage of total team's damage, for both teams.
Numbers like 23400 dmg will make the scoreboard look like a joke.
For marines com just should see an effeciency percent for every marine. Marines would be so much more motivated to do what they are told when they know that com knows actually if you have been lazy or not. Marines could have higher effeciency percent for things that do not require "skill" or rambo tactics but for simple tasks ordered by commander, for example; welding vents, welding teammates and structures, going to waypoints, building etc. Simply doing everything what commander says. Now this of course could be abused by eeeevil com who wouldn't give any neat equipment for marines with low effeciency percent but...would we be sorry for lamers for not getting weps?
Also effeciency percent could be lowered everytime someone says: "HMG, Shotty, Shotgun, LMG, machinegun, grenade launcher, weapons, ha, jp, I want, I need and for excessive use of 1 and ! marks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also effeciency percent could be lowered everytime someone says: "HMG, Shotty, Shotgun, LMG, machinegun, grenade launcher, weapons, ha, jp, I want, I need and for excessive use of 1 and ! marks
That would be the day.
Because its easier to chomp down some buildings than other? It wouldn't be fair if a skulk who destroyed rt gets more scores than a lerk who just destroyed a tf.
Yes, welding/building etc must of course be rewarded (the welder not counting towards your R maybe) somehow. Of course there is a reward since if a building *isn't* destroyed you don't get the collective negative points, but maybe some other way too.
Here's one of the ideas I forgot last night:
Lerks should get 25% of the points scored by anyone in their umbra. Yes, basically 'stealing' the points (hey, if you want all the points, get out of the umbra <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->).
Just like there is a collective negative score when a building is destroyed, there should be a collective positive score when the building is erected.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This whole topic is dumb, seeing your score makes zero difference to how you play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing your score does not make "zero difference" to how you play. Actually that is a pretty ignorant thing to claim and only shows how little you know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your like some Far left Politician taking political correctness to the insane extreme<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no idea how far left I am, besides, it's <i>you're</i>, learn your own language.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its a team Deathmatch game which is the collective skill of individual players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not a deathmatch game. Oh, and it's <i>it's</i> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Find something relevant to whine about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're the only one whining, us others are 'discussing'.
Have a nice day. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yea make it like Golden Eye 007 for the N64. Where's the ammo, and fun little awards like that (don't forget the Lemmings Award!) Maybe the awards would not make people take the game so seriously.
Team scores based on resource points would be cool.
I couldn't have said it better myself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Your like some Far left Politician taking political correctness to the insane extreme
Its a team Deathmatch game which is the collective skill of individual players.
Find something relevant to whine about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cotillion - switch to decaf, man.
Personally I am for losing score completely. Eff scores, they only feed the frag counters.
Humans are statistics freaks. There should be some stats not different from those of AOE or StarCraft. For example, how many fades I took down, the sort. Or maybe one similar to the IRC-stats as commonly seen in webpages.
It could go like this:
Most Complying: Smithy, with an accomplishment of 47 of the 50 waypoints given to him.
The Crazy Welder: John, with 16 of his total 30 kills using a welder.
Most Parasited: Harry, being parasited a total of 35 times.
Most "Scotty, beam me up" Fade: Ganga, he blinked 354 times.
The Spiderman: Little Gorgie, who laid a total of 156 webs.
Or maybe:
Sam couldn't decide on what he wanted to be: he morphed a total of 35 times.
Something along these lines. I can imagine the fun of comparing these stats with other players after the end of a game.
Welder for someone who repairs a lot.
Skulkbait for the noob who always dies.
Sickboy for the always parasited guy.
Engineer for people who build a lot.
Sniper for accurate killers.
etc etc by some creative people
This way the comm can quickly see who is doing what and delegate the right tasks to the right people. It would tie in well with the discussion here if you got to see what your character class was at the end of the game.
Before NS came out I played a lot of Tribes and Tribes 2... the score system in these games may not be perfect but could be a good base to start from.
Players get point for repairing structures, building structures, defending important structures/areas and of course killing enemies.
For NS I could imagine Marines getting points for:
- building structures (3 score for cc & rt; 2 score for tf, uf & pl; 1 score rest)
- welding structures (1 score for every structure-health / 10)
- welding vents (should be defined by the mapper, depending on the imporance of the welding)
- welding teammates (1 score for every 50 points of armor restored that way)
- damaging aliens & alien structures (1 score for every 50 damage inflicted.. this way 4 Marines killing and Onos would all get scoredepending on the hits they did).
Aliens could get points for:
- building structures (hive 3 points, rt 2 points, rest 1 point)
- inflicting damage to Marines and marine structures (see above)
- healing aliens (see welding teammates above)
there should also be a way to honor the lerk's umbra... perhaps +1 score for every 50 bullets blocked ?
Anyway this is just a very raw description far away from being perect, but perhaps this could be a base for developing a player-based score system for NS.
2.) Suggestion for team-only scores:
Some say being able to see the score make people play less team oriented.. in some cases I have to agree... mostly newbie-aliens, but some "professional" players, too.
Personally I'd really like a team-only score for NS so here's my suggestion:
Make scores invisible for both marines and Aliens... use the system presented above to give point to the players... at the end of the game display an overall-team-score and some "avards" such as:
- Warlord Medal (best efficiency = damge afflicted / damage taken)
- Rambo Award (most damage inflicted)
- Golden Welder (most repair points)
- Red Cross Award (most points healed)
- Target Dummy Award (most damage taken or most deaths)
- ...
Feel free to add lots of awards yourself <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, as said before this is no more than a scratch.. the main point is to take score point away from kills and use damage points (and/or maybe resources) as base for the score.
Let the flames begin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
-=HyPeR=-