Why Aliens Nearly Always Win
pingustein
Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13488Members
Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13488Members
Cos the marines have to rely on one commander, most of the time when i play as marine this person is mentally retarded.
As alien you dont have to rely on one person and each player can influence the game, commanding themselves. Say you have a mentally retarded gorg, at least you can go gorg aswell and start doing things right. It may take a bit longer but it often doesnt matter.
The skulks can carry out tactical attacks going for tf's spawn points etc, while the gorg can carry on building up the hives. The skulks dont have to wait and listen for one person telling them what to do.
Normally if i cant go commander i dont go marines because most of the time it seems that my team r just plain stupid. Also you would think that the marines themselves would use thier brain getting to good positions, res points, hives etc. But no, they see it as the commanders duty to carry them through the game. They stand by the cc shouting "minnes please commander miiiiiiiiiiiiines" or "what shall i do commander? where shall I go?"
I give them a waypoint, they run off get killed spawn again winge for some mines.
Now almost all of the time i go aliens, i hope there is some way of fixing this marine problem.
The aliens have such a huge advantage over this fact
As alien you dont have to rely on one person and each player can influence the game, commanding themselves. Say you have a mentally retarded gorg, at least you can go gorg aswell and start doing things right. It may take a bit longer but it often doesnt matter.
The skulks can carry out tactical attacks going for tf's spawn points etc, while the gorg can carry on building up the hives. The skulks dont have to wait and listen for one person telling them what to do.
Normally if i cant go commander i dont go marines because most of the time it seems that my team r just plain stupid. Also you would think that the marines themselves would use thier brain getting to good positions, res points, hives etc. But no, they see it as the commanders duty to carry them through the game. They stand by the cc shouting "minnes please commander miiiiiiiiiiiiines" or "what shall i do commander? where shall I go?"
I give them a waypoint, they run off get killed spawn again winge for some mines.
Now almost all of the time i go aliens, i hope there is some way of fixing this marine problem.
The aliens have such a huge advantage over this fact
Comments
i usually play on jolt, blueyonder and game2xs
Pretty much all these servers are frequented by at least competent Commanders, and it's EXTREMELY difficult for Aliens to secure a victory unless the Marines do something stupid. A real fight. Though even GREAT commanders get preoccupied somewhere else, for a time, and can only spare voicecomm as their console is doing something else.
Remember: The Commander has limited attention. He may be building, guarding a forward assault force, forming a strategy, or even jumping out to gun down a few Skulks who are chewing on the CC. He can't be everywhere... which is a GOOD thing for the Aliens.
Your whole team is at the armory and at LEAST 2 or 3 people out of 8 is going to go somewhere else. Oh noes! Here come the fades now!
So now what? Your marines cower and won't follow any directions. Ok guys we can still try and get to fusion! They get killed along the way and nobody will take the phase gate because they're all getting ammo. There goes fusion secured. Then come the onos. OMG EVERYONE F4! Eject commander he's a n00b, etc, etc
Oh the frustration.
Any clans recruiting? ;p
Well commed btw
I really don't see how. When something or someone is under attack, EVERYONE instantly knows about it and can go help, wheras the commander has to waste time typing it out or trying to lasso his marines and giving them a waypoint. The result: Faster response speed by the aliens to threats.
Dynamite, thanks for the compliment <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Are you sure it was only 3? I think I joined marines halfway thru the first game, we lost, then I played at least 3 alien games and won them all before we got to Tanith map and I went marines?
First off, marines strat and decisions are made by the commander. Marines go where he says, build where he says and fight what he says. Marines may gave opinions or feedback but ultimately, the commander makes the decisions.
Marines = Dictatorship.
Aliens are all individuals. They can go where they want and don't rely on travelling in groups as marines do. Information is shared within the team and decisions made within the team based on this. Everyone has input on what happens. They respond to threats on hive site as individuals.
Aliens = Democracy.
In rubbish pubs, aliens have the advantage. The commander is possibly rubbish and if not his marines probably don't do what he says. The aliens can usually meander through to a win without much teamwork.
In clans, neither side has an advantage.
In good pubs, which hopefully most of us play on, the advantage is with the marines. This is what I was getting at. The reason why is simple. Regardless of comm skill, marines know to do what there told to do or they don't stand a chance. The commander has an overview of what is happening and can make decsions as he likes, when he likes and how he likes.
With aliens, a gorge will be decided on, shall we rush or not etc. Then fighting occurs, red rings appear all over the place. What do you, as a skulk, do ? You have no overview of whats happening. you have no commander to make unilateral decisions.
What you <b>do</b> have is 3 different people telling you to get to spot x, cos y's coming and if we dont stop them z's gonna happen. Thats the drawback of the alien 'command' system. Everyone has there own idea as to what to do and and usaully go and do it. It happens a lot. What can happen is a load of aliens mill around doing what they think is best, achieveing little whilst the marines simply get on with what there commander tells them to.
I've seen good alien teams who can make decisions and act as a group, some defending here, some attacking here, and letting everybody know whats happening. If this doesn't happen then the marine commander become a huge advantage and the aliens lack of one a disadvatage.
The aliens have such a huge advantage over this fact <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel your pain bro.
I realize That I don't know enough about the game to command well yet. But I have watched others and listened to commanders, and I try to help make the commander's job as easy as possible.
Problem is, on public servers a lot of the time you end up with commander's whose strategies are different than what what you are expecting, as intially you run around for about 5-10 minutes getting your entire team in sync (no reference to any band) and a solid plan formed.
I am sure that this is much different in a clan match, where the participants know each other and know what to expect. And, of course, both teams have to play on both sides of the map.
I can't lie and say that I haven't noticed that the aliens seem to win more on public servers, but I did consider the matter very carefully and came to the conclusion that this game is very balanced, and that the idea of having two teams with different strategies was pulling off amazingly successfully. That in itself is a real coup, given that it is hard enough to do that major game companies have backed away from this approach.
The thing is... Centralised command means the marines are less fault tolerant. It means they are less able to adapt, as a team, because everything is totally dependent on the commander. Well..... a hell of a lot is dependent on the commander.
Although on second thoughts, I guess a very skilled marine would be as much a benefit to his team as a very skilled alien (I don't know, I don't play marine so much). It's just that in the absence of highly skilled marines it's up to the skill of the commander.
Ive discussed this with most of the singaporean regular NS players.
They all agree aliens win more on pubs.
Why?
1 skulk going rambo = not really hindering the team,he might even kill a defencless RT or discover an expansion or a hive being secured.
1 marine going rambo = bad.For one,parasite.Then theres the skulk dominace in CQB.THEN theres the fact that aliens expand about 2-3 times faster than marines and require WAY less manpower to do it.Like 1 gorg is enough?compared to the 2-7 marines.Alien structures auto-build.....compare amount of time to get a turrets up to OCs.
Aliens really SHOULDNT be able to expand 2-3 times faster than marines.......all a gorg has to do is to get like 3 RTs,plop down OCs at the 2nd hive......maybe a few DCs...save up.....bam.End of story.Marines have no cheap anti-building weapon early game.OCs have ridiculous 1200 HP points and can be auto-healed by Dcs,a hive AND a gorg(we all know how fast gorg heals structures.......mkay?).
The only way marines seem to have a good chance of winning are rushes....which simply shouldnt be happening....rushes are NO fun at all.
All in all, you can only hope that the next version of NSwill help out the newbie marines...hopefully while their commander stillhas his sanity. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i usually play on jolt, blueyonder and game2xs<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Warservers usually sees the best standard of UK play by some distance. It is also adminned a large proportion of the time. The passworded BY server sees some decent play, although not as much as warservers. YOu also need to get the pass, although that's not exactly overly challenging <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->. TheHaven is pretty decent sometimes too.
Jolt is a newbie heaven - everyone sees the name 'jolt' when they first join NS, because they've played on jolt servers in so many other games. Newbies gravitate towards big name servers - I know I did.
On decent servers, I'd say it's pretty much balanced.
We all know how unbalanced and g@y rushing is.Particularly JP/HMG.
Remove that and.........aliens dominate?
Im sorry but ive played on good marine teams that have lost to an average alien team.All you need is a good gorg to get several RTs up then camp in a hive.I find it extremely unlikely marines are going to take down a large number of OCs with LMG.Particulary when they have to shoot skulks as well.AND gorg healing the ocs.AND DCs healing the OCs.
Aliens shouldnt get more res than marines.....marines should.Look at how expensive marine stuff is!The alien turrets are cheaper,have more HP,can auto-heal,auto-build and do 40 damage!It doesnt matter if marine turrets are hitscan......they cant hit the broadside of a barn!
Oh yes fades > ha/hmg anyday.Can slaughter massive amounts of ha/hmg easily.
Aliens can do their own thing at their own time, if the gorges are of average IQ...
I think the game is balanced if everyone does their part. Eg. Act like real Marines.
My 2cents
marines > 1 hive aliens
2 hive aliens > marines
Since most pub players dont work together to take out the alien hive/prevent the aliens from getting a 2nd hive, the aliens win because they usually can get 2 hives.
I take one hive. I have a good fun long (2 hour) game and then win. Everyone is happy we all enjoy the game even the losing team comes out saying gg.
It is very possible to beat 2 hive aliens even if you only have 2 nodes.
Keep in mind this is a 16 person server (that number of players is supposed to balance the teams enough to give neither side an advantage due to player numbers.)
I do have a mod that may help the marines the phaseeq mod where you put ammo and health in a phase gate and a marine can call for it. This does help me because I don't have to micromanage marine health (I rarely put ammo in it.)
The other plug I have is the forced random plug. No matter how you join via command or running through a door you go random. This allows the game to actually start right away. In 30 seconds both teams are full. It used to be 13 guys piled up on the marine side 2 marines in the game and one alien. Eventually after 2 or 3 minutes everyone would be on a team. This may help the marines by giving them a team to work with right away, but the same can be said for the aliens.
I must admit though people seem to listen to me and I have a very good group (bout 150) of regulars that know me and listen. I think that is one factor in winning over and over against 2 hive aliens. I know my team I know their strengths and weaknesses and I use them to my advantage. They also know what they can expect from me and how they will be treated. I think there is a higher level of respect and trust on my server because of all the regulars. But, I can't see why this can't be achieved on every pub out there it would take a well admined (I have 5 and myself) and well monitored server. Keep playing somewhere, get known as a regular. Get to know all the other regulars and form a loose team and then play. Above all have fun and remember it is a game, a very well thought out game. I don't think there are really any glaring inequities in the game as it is. There IS a huge difference in player intelligence and skill though and at times that may come off as unbalanced in some peoples eyes.
.02
dex