Unbalanced game in the end?

Darkness · May 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Easy vs advanced</div>I'm quite noob, but if some of you played the EXELENT mod for quake2 namely <u><b>GLOOM</b></u> you may remmeber me, and I played it aLOT, it's really alot like this game, so i would love the NS team to give them some credits too <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

'nuff ranting.
in alot of games the advanced race always seems to be the best after people get good at the game, so here you got the selfish aliens vs the smart humans that work toghether, and usually the smart ones wins.

oh by the way what happens when a team gets the upper hand on a map, is there no chance of regaining control?
think a 6 resource point map where the humans got 4 of them
and the aliens only 2, wont this mean that the aliens will only have some high level's, and how will this be able to stop the ongoing smart-wellarmed-teamworking humans with all the resources of the wolrd on their back?

so what I want to know is what thougth do you people got on this?

Phew, really got to blow my load there

<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Slycaster · May 2002

well the main thing here about the aliens is, EVERY class is unique and servers a purpose. So it doesn't really matter if you got a few bobs, a few blinky's, and a flyer or two, all working together can overcome the marines if done right, in your sutuation

Darkness · May 2002

what about the ranged attack over the melee?

if aliens have to depend on other skills, then it sounds like there are alot of pressure on the mappers since they have to create maps that enhance the use of stealth, sneaking and hanging out in no-human-areas

realityisdead · May 2002

1.) Welcome to the community.

2.) The entire point of playtesting this thing is to get it fun and balanced. Don't think that they're going to release some half-hearted attempt that is just... sorta... playable. These guys know what they're doing.

3.) Yes, this type of gameplay does put huge amounts of pressure on the mappers "since they have to create maps that enhance the use of stealth, sneaking and hanging out in no-human-areas". More so than any other game I've seen. I couldn't describe it any better: Pressure. There are so many things that you have to design around and keep in mind that it can get more than overwhelming sometimes. It's tough, but worth it.

Sorry if I came off sounding a bit rude, but frankly... you don't need to worry about things like this. No need to get your panties in a bunch worrying that it's going to be unbalanced, unfun, unfair, unplayable, etc. That's for the team to worry about. I mean it when I say you can rest assured that the game will not be so totally unbalanced that it won't be playable. And if there is an advantage... it was intended. This thing isn't being designed by a bunch of kids in their free time... saying things like "Hey! Aliens! Cool, lets let em teleport through walls for no reason other than the fact that it'd be sweet!!" From what I understand half the team is comprised of professional game developers.

Again, sorry, but no need to worry about things like that. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unbalanced game in the end?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No.

Parasite · May 2002

exactly!
there are detailed mapping docs to be followed to make gameplay fair for both sides and allow the different playstyles the many aliens posess.

Darkness · May 2002

Good to know ken20banks <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> thanks

but have any of the dev team played Gloom?

the creators is Team RXN or so,
and their vision was Really like this one,
with spike turrets, flying aliens, cloaking and vents ++
if not and you needed help with stuff you even could contact them to maby get some cooperation, that would absolutely rock

LoL the ranks of the forum members is the same as the ranks of the aliens
1. builder
1. hatchling
2. drone
3. flyer thingy
4. guardian
5. Stalker

realityisdead · May 2002

Hehe, I'm not entirely sure. This isn't the first time Gloom was brought up though, so if you do a search for "Gloom" (button up top the page), you're sure to find more stuff on the topic. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

/me unfortunately can't remember the details of the discussions

hArk · May 2002

you left out the stinger and the kami tut tut
wraith is the flyer thingy

that will be all <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Flayra · May 2002

I've played Gloom some, but I don't think anyone else on the dev team has.

Our forum ranks are just standard alien concepts. Gloom did not pioneer the use of the word "hatchling", it's endemic to this genre.

Every once in awhile people come along and tell us that NS is just like Gloom, just like Starcraft, just like Space Hulk, just like Aliens, just like Battlezone, the list goes on and on. The truth is, NS incorporates pieces from all those games, and adds many of it's own new bits to the mix. NS borrows heavily from "aliens vs. humans" genre. If it didn't, we probably wouldn't have this many people interested in it!

Hida_Tsuzua · May 2002

As a friend said (paraphased), NS draws from many other games and genres. However it incorpates it in a way to make it all new.

Shuvit_Viper · May 2002

hida... aren't you a playtester? i expected you to be one... your posts are really thoughtfull and mature... or have you been asked?

Darkness · May 2002

well I dont care where you guys get your inspiration from, as long as the game looks as good as it does now so keep up the good work,

But a thouigh, isnt a good human player able to easily dodge the melee attacks of the aliens? or are the humans like coutner-strike slow moving or something

i remember that from other games in this genre where you as a skilfull player can easily dodge the aliens

i really hope to see a bit more realism in the picture here

Flayra · May 2002

Well the aliens aren't all melee by any means. All the aliens have a ranged attack (although the level 1 ranged attack doesn't do damage...). The marines are definitely a bit on the slow side and you shouldn't seem the jumping around and outrunning the aliens.

Darkness · May 2002

Sweeet!

are there anywhere where i can read about the alien classes?

and will you guys make use of dead bodies, i like using all the strategic elements i can stumble across in these games

Flayra · May 2002

All the info is up on Ready Room. This will get you started.

<a href="http://www.readyroom.org/special0118Concepts.html" target='_blank'>http://www.readyroom.org/special0118Concepts.html</a>

Darkness · May 2002

In this game you state that the more control of resource points and stuff you got the more abilitys you get, like the alien gets better and better the more hives they get.

will this not make the game end really fast, as soon as a team has the edge they will suddently get boost and the other team will just get worse? need ammo and such

Moleculor · May 2002

The whole point of playtesting is to make sure that the game turns out how it's supposed to. We're playtesting. Don't worry.

lazygamer · May 2002

I think the whole "balance" thing should be less about carefully balancing the maps and more about balancing the classes.

My theory is that the ability of teamwork and advanced technology, along with vastly superior ranged firepower will make Marines VERY POWERFUL when they have the right leader and teamwork. So by it's nature, the aliens should be quite a bit under balanced when a single one attacks a marine head on.

By under balanced I mean that even with a HMG, good player aiming skill, 20' distance and being Bob, Bob will still kill the marine and have 33% of his health left. Remember were talking about ONE marine VS ONE Bob.

Ok math sez that one marine needs oh say 10' to take away 25% health from Bob(remember some damage was done while Bob was attacking at melee range). So two marines shooting Bob will have chipped off 50% health from Bob. At the most he will do some minor harm to the Marines before he's BARELY cut down once he reaches them.

Ok what about two marines VS two bobs? For starters, there's this fire splitting issue. If the Marines didn't decide to focus fire quick enough, the bobs would have 50% health at melee range. Then the Bobs proceed to chew up the marines and only lose another 16% health each. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Now suppose these marines were lucky enough to focus fire. Well one Bob would be down at melee range. The other bob attackz0rs and kills one marine with only a loss of 32% health. The other marine dies too and bob loses another 16 health. So at best under these arament circumstances(and the aliens aren't n00bs), Two marines are dead, one bob is dead, the other has 52% health left. Yikes, that's harsh.

Ok these examples won't have super precise math and are simplified, but they give an idea of how the balance should play out.

Unbalanced game in the end?

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