Barely To Counter Alienstrat...

Archilleos · February 2003

Im not posting this in the Kharaastatforum, cause I dont consider it as a real strat. its more like something you NEED to be informed bout.
Like most of the NS Players I cant remember the mapnames <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
This strat is especially "effective" on that Sewerhivemap...
The trick is... once a skulk hits his 33 res, he can jump into the base marine vent, evolve to gorge down there, place 2 defence chambers.... go skulk again and harass the hell out off the marines.
If halfway early in the game, the marines wont neither have JP nor a siege in their spawn, making the DC unkillable for the marines. Now if a skulks with carapace decides to hop in that vent *no matter if the original entrance to it is sealed, if he makes it into the vent hes up to full health anyway* hop out, run around, bite like a raging rhino, run close to the wall near the vent or inside it and get healed instantly. Im not a that good skulk anyway, with an average k/d rate of 50%. But whenever I use this "strat" i?ll come out as something more like 40/5... due 3 of those 5 deaths been before the dc placement waiting for the res. My best so far was around 45/4... skulk only, at most time 1 hive. Maybe a good marineteam can shoot you down if you go solely, but everal skulks getting healed nearly all the time in a ratio comparable to a hive is just insane. Even marines waiting down there for you can barely take action, thx to constant healing. The buildings provide some cover... and the marines have a heavy time defending their base. I you dont manage to kill them for some sec of free time, you at least bind 2 or 3 marines to the spawn which may be used elsewhere.
its just <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> with a surviving <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>
On other maps this isnt that drastic cause some marines may follow the normal way up and kill the dc like on that refineryhivemap... others dont have a vent at all.

Ollj · February 2003

thats old.
I see it every third time I play on this map wich means this strat is used in 50% of all possible cases were it makes sense.

Archilleos · February 2003

And thats spam <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

And I didnt read bout it the past 4 months...

Redford · February 2003

Depending on the map, there is little keeping the marines from either putting mines at the bottom of the vent, so the next time you drop down, you explode, or running to the other end of the vent, hopping in, and then mauling your dchambers from behind due to the narrowness of the vent. And there you've just wasted a grand total of 45 RP for your team (morph to gorge: 13 RP + morph to skulk 4 RP + 2 d chambers, 28RP). This may work with idiotic marines, but smart marines will kill you on the way out, and do all sorts of other things to foil your plans.

Archilleos · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Feb 12 2003, 07:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Depending on the map, there is little keeping the marines from either putting mines at the bottom of the vent, so the next time you drop down, you explode, or running to the other end of the vent, hopping in, and then mauling your dchambers from behind due to the narrowness of the vent. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This may work on SOME mapps, but like I mentioned above, this one map has a vent leading vertical up. No marine could reach the DC from behind.
And as long as its just 1 Mine a 3Cara Skulk survives the blow with some hp and some armor left. If they place more, im happy to run into the mines again to boom them up, damage nearby structures if possible, kill a marine nearby, and have them waste 2-4 ticks of res... Then continue.
I dont say its impossible to counter, I say its hard to do anything gainst it and it is well executed a factor that can cause the marines to lose.

I wouldnt have posted this, but it worked everytime I tried, a win for the alien team. Through a single skulk.

ignot · February 2003

I've always found doing this means Marines research GL's sooner, which tends to hurt.

coil · February 2003

There are ways to deal with this. As cumbersome as it is, in the worst case scenario a stack of 4 marines can get over the top. Just weld the vent, give #4 a shotgun, and stack away. But maybe putting a ladder leading into the vent would be a good idea. /:

Ph0enix · February 2003

New droppable item for 1.1. Extendable ladders, researched at the prototype lab <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

It's a good one shot tactic which can win the game. You've got to have about 5 skulks in there to keep running in and out to get healing. Even if they get one bite in on something they've done their job, as long as they don't die. However, without more than a couple of skulks its just an annoyance.

Also, it only works early game as 'nades and JPs counter it easily. If it fails, being early game early res wasted on the multiple DCs hits the aliens hard. Additionally, it is only one-shot. The second time they'll be sieges there.

From your post however, you were doing it constantly throughout a game, in which case you were playing a bad marine team. They should have killed you before you got anywhere near 40 kills.

A skulk rush aided by this can win a game, or just be a lot of res wasted at the critical opening stages of the agme.

BTW, the 'sewerhive map' is Caged. I can't think of any other map where this is an effective strat.

coil · February 2003

Another possible way to avoid this issue would be to change the design of the vent slightly - instead of a vertical rise at the end (allowing headroom for chambers), make it a ramp upwards over distance (like the vent in Bast).

Ph0enix · February 2003

Well, it would, but I don't count it as an 'issue' as such.

Sieges, JPs, mines and 'nades all stop it or reduce its viabilty greatly.

Additionally an alert marine team will hear the gorge building and prepare themselves accordingly. MT would gave away a large build up of aliens in the vent. Theres plenty of ways of avoiding it.

I wouldn't really consider it a 'killer' strat which requires a map change.

Speed_2_Dave · February 2003

*yawn* with HMG rushes so popular these days, why didn't they just chuck a few grenades in? It's a nice stall maneuver, though. It forces them to keep at least one man in the base. But if he's good he *will* get you, he just has to set you up.

Ahnteis · February 2003

waste of alien resources.

Roobubba · February 2003

I agree, this is OLD and easily overcommable by any half way decent marine team, unless the entire alien team is in there, in which case you can say good bye to:
a) your hive
b) the other 2 hives and marines will just set up a secondary comm chair at gen or vent, do a base move and recycle everything at the old base.

Then you've just wasted a whole load of res and got absolutely no benefit whatsoever, probably damaged your chances as on caged the second hive is near-vital for aliens.

It is possible to sneak the second hive behind marines' backs in vent hive if they're dumb, but if the can get over that small hurdle of aliens in the vent then they can reinforce their new base adequately 99% of the time.

I suggest you find some more challenging servers to play on and start trying some different tactics for a change just for interest sake.

Ph0enix · February 2003

Unless of course, you relocate to sewer, in which case you find you can't upgrade a damn thing, as me and most of .|RaDoX|. found out last night <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Roobubba · February 2003

and you'll only ever do it once <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Doombringer · February 2003

A ladder into that vent wouldn't hurt. Forcing the marines to tech to gren or JP early is kinda cheap :/

Ahnteis · February 2003

Aliens in there are trapped. 1 marine can watch the vent while the rest have an easier time taking hives or attacking because of the aliens sitting in marine spawn. A useless "tactic". No need for a ladder.

Nether · February 2003

People have been doing that for ages, all you do is mine the area below the vent and preferbaly your structures and its not a problem.

Thansal · February 2003

meh, I tend to play deffence (I tihnk it is always a good idea to have atleast one marine on D)
I can sit there and watch the vent and kill you when you come out (concntrated LMG fire kills cara skulks)

Dunkin_Dynamite · February 2003

yes it not good if they competent.

Primarily mines of course.

If you have majority team in there then marines can hit elsewhere or relocate if you are hitting hard. Then they can just come back with tech and kill you all.

If you have one skulk the marines can easily snipe you with pistol. If you jump out you will die, esp with mines and if multiple people.

If you don't get in there immediately the vent may be welded. This is slightly more minor of an issue but if you intend to stay in the vent, then you are removing yourself from action except maybe for parasiting which is risky because of snipers. Your team now has an inactive member and then you spend res building. That also is less of an issue b/c lucky aliens coming through the front entrance can heal by the wall or run into the vent. Marines can still mine tho and sooner or later they are gonna take care of your problem either by nades jetpak or siege

Barely To Counter Alienstrat...

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