Well frankly I don't plan on changing my tactics anytime soon. In the majority of alien games I have played with a solo gorge, we have RARELY lost. In games where we had 2 early gorges, we lost often. I think that speaks for itself.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--DanDaMan+Feb 5 2003, 03:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DanDaMan @ Feb 5 2003, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(which is wrong, btw, its more like 25-35%) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dunno how you did your math but i based it on how the resources are shared on an 8 alien team. 1 gorge =3/10 of team resources. 2 gorges=3/12 of team resources. That's .3 and .25 in decimal terms. 0.25/0.3=about 0.83. That means that 2 gorges wiill each get 83% of the res that 1 gorge will get. So the loss is about 17% (sorry not 12%) but it definitely isn't 25%-35%. And that's not considering the fact that 2 gorges will build more resource towers than 1 gorge which will almost double the total resource income as soon as they start putting up resource twoers so that in fact each gorge is getting more resources than 1 gorge would get. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The exact numbers are
I go gorg to back up the first one sometimes in mediumish games (9v9). Of course, I only do it after we have capped at least 2 other res towers and are not completely screwed in the first place.
The faster you can get your first 3 upgrade chambers up and the 2nd hive up, the better. More than a single gorge slows this process down. If you want to win against good opponents you will *NEED* to have a single gorge, unless you have other gorges who will be solely capping Resource Nodes and reverting back to skulk.
well I think what we've been proving here is that it is not actually slower to have two gorges. To sum up what I've been saying all along is that you will get resource towers, chambers, and ultimately that second hive up faster with 2 gorges. The only good argument against 2 gorges is the possibility that one will be stupid and waste resources on just building sensory chambers or more probably that you will have one less skulk chewing on the marines.
None of the "one gorge" minded folk are going to read this anyway, but here goes.
It depends on the circumstances. Most games I play there is only one gorge and it works great. However, sometimes there is a need for a gorge in two places at once, and there is only one way to fix that problem...
I was in a game once where the single gorge was doing a great job and was building up the second hive. Everything was great, except the marines came for the third hive(which I was protecting). After taking out a few marines I knew they would start coming in bunches and I would need a way to slow them down till reinforcements got off their ****. I went gorge and held the hive fow quite some time with OCs and DCs. The other gorge was ****, but it won the game.
In short, no matter which camp you're in, you're wrong. Adapt or die.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
I'm in the 'camp' that only one gorge is needed, or desirable until the second hive is coming up. Also, those who just go Gorge to drop a RT when they have 33RP need to be kicked in the head a few times. Why? Simple. Overflow. If everyone on the Alien team is at 33RP except the Gorge at one-hive, that gorge is getting 100% of the RP coming in.. allowing a MUCH faster development. Building defenses, upgrades, and second-Hive comes MUCH more quickly. Even the loss of 2RP from each person is almost negligible, when nabbing the upgrade of their choice. Add in a second Gorge, and each are only getting 50% of the RP coming in. Half-speed.
However, going Gorge and dropping an RT (13+22) then going back to Skulk (4) is a net loss of 17RP. You DON'T get the RP back from Gorging. And that 17RP is enough for another chamber type. Assume a six-player team, and if everyone (minus the permanent Gorge) does that, it was enough RP to have gotten up a second Hive, from the lost RP alone. Yes, the RP are coming in a little faster. But the cost isn't worth it, because each of those five towers cost you 39RP. 195RP in total, for an extra 5RP/tick, farmed out over the entire team.
Though amusing as all hell was one time I was on a pub of like 10v10... we somehow got the Marines heavilly bottled up... and all of a sudden over half the team was 'GEST' the 'GORG' then 'GEST' then 'SKUL' all at once.
Know what happened?
They all thought they'd be cute... then saw everyone else was GEST, but were smart and dropped the chamber before going back... so all those chambers auto-built. The poor gorge ran around like a madman nursing each RT to get them done quicker... but we went from having 3 res (because we'd nailed the initial Marine excursions entirely) to every res on the map all at once except the one in the Marine base. :-)
Needless to say, once the RT's were up, the hives were up awfully fast. =^.^=
Comments
I think that speaks for itself.
Regards,
Savant
Dunno how you did your math but i based it on how the resources are shared on an 8 alien team. 1 gorge =3/10 of team resources. 2 gorges=3/12 of team resources. That's .3 and .25 in decimal terms. 0.25/0.3=about 0.83. That means that 2 gorges wiill each get 83% of the res that 1 gorge will get. So the loss is about 17% (sorry not 12%) but it definitely isn't 25%-35%. And that's not considering the fact that 2 gorges will build more resource towers than 1 gorge which will almost double the total resource income as soon as they start putting up resource twoers so that in fact each gorge is getting more resources than 1 gorge would get. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The exact numbers are
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
0,75
0,78
0,80
0,82
0,83
0,85
0,86
0,87
0,88
0,88
0,89
0,89
0,90
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
for teamsizes varying from 4v4 to 16v16. It is indeed 0.83 for an 8 player team.
It depends on the circumstances. Most games I play there is only one gorge and it works great. However, sometimes there is a need for a gorge in two places at once, and there is only one way to fix that problem...
I was in a game once where the single gorge was doing a great job and was building up the second hive. Everything was great, except the marines came for the third hive(which I was protecting). After taking out a few marines I knew they would start coming in bunches and I would need a way to slow them down till reinforcements got off their ****. I went gorge and held the hive fow quite some time with OCs and DCs. The other gorge was ****, but it won the game.
In short, no matter which camp you're in, you're wrong. Adapt or die.
However, going Gorge and dropping an RT (13+22) then going back to Skulk (4) is a net loss of 17RP. You DON'T get the RP back from Gorging. And that 17RP is enough for another chamber type. Assume a six-player team, and if everyone (minus the permanent Gorge) does that, it was enough RP to have gotten up a second Hive, from the lost RP alone. Yes, the RP are coming in a little faster. But the cost isn't worth it, because each of those five towers cost you 39RP. 195RP in total, for an extra 5RP/tick, farmed out over the entire team.
It just isn't worth it.
Know what happened?
They all thought they'd be cute... then saw everyone else was GEST, but were smart and dropped the chamber before going back... so all those chambers auto-built. The poor gorge ran around like a madman nursing each RT to get them done quicker... but we went from having 3 res (because we'd nailed the initial Marine excursions entirely) to every res on the map all at once except the one in the Marine base. :-)
Needless to say, once the RT's were up, the hives were up awfully fast. =^.^=