A Closer Look At The Fade Vs Ha/hmg Argument.
Question
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
Okay lets look at that argument.
Basically ha/hmg has all the raw power and WILL win in a 1 vs 1 fight(assuming fade doesnt run away,which,in a real game,it WILL) and has some amount of upgrades.
Fades however have speed,manueverability,splash damage weapon,isnt affected by NS hitbox bug(i think we all know it exists,STOP DENYING IT)has a host of useful abilities such as regeneration and redemption.
Regen - with like 35 HP per tick,fades dont even need to run away to a DC area to heal....they just need to hide somewhere.Within 20 seconds,you are back flinging acid rockets at the marines.
Redemption - It makes it PRATICALLY impossible for marines to kill you.Oh yea.Cant count number of times i go 1 vs 1 with a fade as full upgraded ha/hmg and it redempts.Cant kill it.54 res argument rendered invalid.
HA/HMG/Welder - Pros : Fast firing hard hitting weapon,takes a lot of damage,repairs teammate's armor fast.Cons : Slow(you can NEVER stop fades from healing and coming back after you....okay so fade weakness NULLIFIED.),have to reload every 150 rounds(perfect time for fade claws),vulnerable while welding teammate(perfect target for acid rockets),HMG inaccurate at long range and most important of all,it doesnt have the tatical versalitiy and maneuvarbility that the fade has.
Fade - Pros : Either carapace(whoah fades can take a LOT of damage with this),regen(35 hp per tick is a bit much me thinks) or redempt(90% chance that you wont die.).Splash weapon.Claws do 80 damage.Fast,can backpedal with no movement penalty(WTF?why doesnt the argument for marine movement penalty come into here?),can blink(when blink is sorted out,it will be even MORE impossible to stop fades from healing,which is supposed to be the alien's weakness.). Cons - Adreline bar puts cap on how much damage you can deal at one time,blink is screwy......uh....thats it?
You know what sparked me to write this?A game in which i had 1 hive and ha/hmg for the team.They had fades.The probelm was we SIMPLY couldnt stop fades hitting our RTs.IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.They would shoot off a few acid rockets,i would send reinforcements phasing in,the fades would fire off whatver rockets they could,run off to heal at a wall of lame,rinse,repeat.AND WE COULD NOT STOP THEM HEALING!This is the important part.The hard part about killing fades is their speed that lets them heal fast.So we have to "rush them".How do you rush them when you move as slow as a snail and there are like 7-9 OCs at the healing point?YOU.CANT.STOP.THEM.And it was happening all the time,our hive was being hit,our main base was being hit,our outpost was being hit....we simply couldnt stop them from healing!Anytime the marines hid at corners,waited till the MT signaled them and rushed out HMGs firing......the fade would either blink off or bunny hop off.Which we all know kinda affects the hitbox of the fade and you know most of the bullets arent doing anything BECAUSE THE GAME DOESNT THINK THE FADE IS THERE!YOU CANT HIT WHAT THE GAME DOESNT THINK IS THERE!
Fades > HA/HMG.
The game is in nowhere balanced at the 2 hive stage.
My suggestions :
Reduce the regen rate for fades.....it is obscene.
Reduce chance of redemption the more "evolved" you are....lerks would redempt less than skulks,fades would redempt less than lerks and so on.Onos wouldnt redempt at all.
Have movement penalty for fades moving backwards.At least they cant run away AND shoot back at the same time!
There is one thing i dont know how to fix however.
The COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY for marines to "rush and stop the fade from healing.".THAT is the probelm.The marines simply do not have the speed to stop the fade from healing.And we all know that makes it kinda HARD to kill the fade.
Any suggestions for that?
Basically ha/hmg has all the raw power and WILL win in a 1 vs 1 fight(assuming fade doesnt run away,which,in a real game,it WILL) and has some amount of upgrades.
Fades however have speed,manueverability,splash damage weapon,isnt affected by NS hitbox bug(i think we all know it exists,STOP DENYING IT)has a host of useful abilities such as regeneration and redemption.
Regen - with like 35 HP per tick,fades dont even need to run away to a DC area to heal....they just need to hide somewhere.Within 20 seconds,you are back flinging acid rockets at the marines.
Redemption - It makes it PRATICALLY impossible for marines to kill you.Oh yea.Cant count number of times i go 1 vs 1 with a fade as full upgraded ha/hmg and it redempts.Cant kill it.54 res argument rendered invalid.
HA/HMG/Welder - Pros : Fast firing hard hitting weapon,takes a lot of damage,repairs teammate's armor fast.Cons : Slow(you can NEVER stop fades from healing and coming back after you....okay so fade weakness NULLIFIED.),have to reload every 150 rounds(perfect time for fade claws),vulnerable while welding teammate(perfect target for acid rockets),HMG inaccurate at long range and most important of all,it doesnt have the tatical versalitiy and maneuvarbility that the fade has.
Fade - Pros : Either carapace(whoah fades can take a LOT of damage with this),regen(35 hp per tick is a bit much me thinks) or redempt(90% chance that you wont die.).Splash weapon.Claws do 80 damage.Fast,can backpedal with no movement penalty(WTF?why doesnt the argument for marine movement penalty come into here?),can blink(when blink is sorted out,it will be even MORE impossible to stop fades from healing,which is supposed to be the alien's weakness.). Cons - Adreline bar puts cap on how much damage you can deal at one time,blink is screwy......uh....thats it?
You know what sparked me to write this?A game in which i had 1 hive and ha/hmg for the team.They had fades.The probelm was we SIMPLY couldnt stop fades hitting our RTs.IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.They would shoot off a few acid rockets,i would send reinforcements phasing in,the fades would fire off whatver rockets they could,run off to heal at a wall of lame,rinse,repeat.AND WE COULD NOT STOP THEM HEALING!This is the important part.The hard part about killing fades is their speed that lets them heal fast.So we have to "rush them".How do you rush them when you move as slow as a snail and there are like 7-9 OCs at the healing point?YOU.CANT.STOP.THEM.And it was happening all the time,our hive was being hit,our main base was being hit,our outpost was being hit....we simply couldnt stop them from healing!Anytime the marines hid at corners,waited till the MT signaled them and rushed out HMGs firing......the fade would either blink off or bunny hop off.Which we all know kinda affects the hitbox of the fade and you know most of the bullets arent doing anything BECAUSE THE GAME DOESNT THINK THE FADE IS THERE!YOU CANT HIT WHAT THE GAME DOESNT THINK IS THERE!
Fades > HA/HMG.
The game is in nowhere balanced at the 2 hive stage.
My suggestions :
Reduce the regen rate for fades.....it is obscene.
Reduce chance of redemption the more "evolved" you are....lerks would redempt less than skulks,fades would redempt less than lerks and so on.Onos wouldnt redempt at all.
Have movement penalty for fades moving backwards.At least they cant run away AND shoot back at the same time!
There is one thing i dont know how to fix however.
The COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY for marines to "rush and stop the fade from healing.".THAT is the probelm.The marines simply do not have the speed to stop the fade from healing.And we all know that makes it kinda HARD to kill the fade.
Any suggestions for that?
Comments
#2 a lot of IPs + lvl 3 weapons + LMG is sooo much better cause its really free money after upgrades
#3 go after their DC's or hives
#4 HA is a waste of money in most cases, especially vs fades
#5 having a welder negates the extra and sometimes crucial damage pistol followup gives you (especially after you just unloaded a LMG clip, and the fade is turnign around about to blink)
isnt affected by NS hitbox bug(i think we all know it exists,STOP DENYING IT)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prove it.
I want to see actual proof.
Prove to me where its happening, when its happening and why its happening.
I dont want to hear any crap about "omfgz dewd! I totaly shot like 5000 billion bazillion rounds into the fadez0r and he didnt die!!1one H4x0rz!!!1oneone"
I want hard, undeniable proof that there is a hitbox bug. I've been playing this game for a very long time and I have yet to see any such bug the would unbalance any sort of HMG - fade match up.
Besides - why is everyone trying to compare these two like they're classes? There are alot of factors when trying to figure out who is stronger. Such as research, number of hives, number of chambers, which weapon, any back up, any commander support and so on.
Things are <b>not</b> always just a cut and dry situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
healing,which is supposed to be the alien's weakness
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
huh?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Reduce chance of redemption the more "evolved" you are
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely defies the point of redemption in the first place. Don't talk as if a fade redempting is a victory, you are removed from the fight - If the marines are trying to secure a location, getting a fade to redempt has very much the same effect as killing it outright.
Read your opening paragraphs, hmm, yes I disagree, carry on reading, then I reach this sentence and understanding hits me. So your crying sour grapes basically yeah ?
Simple solution.
HA/HMG vs fade and the fade runs away. Don't whinge, you've just won a tactical victory, the enemy has had to gave ground to your advance. Big deal hes gonna be back all heaed up in a bit. The point is that encounter is going to be further forward. Repeat and rinse and eventually your at the WOL in question. You have HA/HMG/Welders so I presume that either welded welders, HMGs at PB being welded or GLs aren't out of the question ? Dead WOL.
Carry on this pattern, and before you know it that fade isn't going anywhere because your going to be on his hive's doorstep.
From your story, you allowed the fades to get you into a defensive pattern, which in turn meant you lost. You should have been actively attacking <b>back</b> and destroying the WOLs they were staging their attacks from. You didn't you lost. Don't do it next time.
Also specifically:
Redemption. Use shotguns. They can take a fade from above redemption level to dead in one shot.
Regeneration. Do you play aliens ? Regeneration doesn't allow you to stand in front of HMGs and laugh it off. It just allows you to be independant of DC/Gorges/Hive for healing. BTW, its more like 20 Hp per tick, if that.
<b>Edit:</b> I've just re-read your post. It seems as if the Alien team played you beautifuly. They performed hit and run attacks on various parts of your infra structure continously, diverting your attention and marines all over the place. More to the point you played the game to their tune. Well played to whoever was on this anonymous Alien team.
The way I see it, any kind of one shot upgrades (aka weapon drops/HA) are totally useless (with the exception of JP+HMG to take down hives) compared to high passive weapon upgrades when dealing with fades. HA/HMG or even just HA is alot more useful AFTER you kill the fades or BEFORE they get fades to deal the finishing blow... otherwise your going to sit there moving at 2 mph getting your **** owned by good fades.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well .. its an opinion .. I'll give you that
Mine differs however ..
just the other day, the only time I saw any HMG/HA was towards the end when they already had 2 hives, only 2 were givin out - one to myself and one to another player. We stayed together and we stayed with our team, we did what the commander ordered and we completely owned anything that was stupid enough to even consider attacking us. Even after we both ended up dying, no other HA/HMGs were passed out and we finished the game with lmgs and pistols.
The commander can spam health anywhere, anyplace on the map. A few health spams and the Fades don't stand a chance, your HA/HMG's just keep trudging up the hallway wasting everything. Every good commander at that stage in the game will be spamming his heavy groups everytime they need it. If you don't need to replace all that heavy equipment, health spamming is a cheap alternative.
That alone makes your agurment pretty much moot.
I want to see actual proof.
Prove to me where its happening, when its happening and why its happening. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of the alien hitboxes properly match their model, its not so much a bug as it is a fact of the game. The fade's is probably the most accurate hitbox of any alien, but it isn't perfect, especially when viewed from the side on or while jumping. The hitbox for the onos on the other hand is horrific. These aren't really problems that can or will be fixed, its just that HL won't support properly rotating hitboxes. A skulk is elongated, but if you gave it an elongated hitbox, you run into all sorts of problems when it starts turning. Instead, its hitbox is very similar to the marines: a square-like upright rectangle than doesn't rotate. Viewed side on, only about half of a skulk is actually hittable, you can test this easily with a friend, and there have been demos posted before which showed this clearly.
As for marines, their hitbox is quite accurate because they fit the ideal scenario of a box-like base. A marine model can rotate around but still occupy the same position on your screen, unlike the elongated aliens who have a wider model when viewed side on. The marine model accurately matches the area that you can land hits on.
The people complaing about landing skulk bites will mention problems with the marine hitbox (Crouching in vents etc.) But im quite sure the problem isnt with the marine, but with the skulk bite itself. From what i can gather, the bite does not come from the jaws on your screen at all, but from the "head" of the hitbox, which is situated about a foot above the skulks midsection. In other words, you aren't biting with the jaws on your screen, you're biting with an invisible pair of jaws on a retractable arm hovering a short distance above your viewpoint...
Meaning when you run into a vent to bite a marine, you're aiming your bite into the roof of the vent and missing the marine who goes underneath your bite. When im at home i'll take a demo so you can have your "proof".
This past weekend, I played a 4 vs 4 game on Eclipse. My marines and I had one hive, the aliens had 2, and had fades. I had just enough res to give two marines HA/HMG/W. One marine was sentry at the hive we had, the other two captured a second hive through brute HMG force (no GL, no seige). Using phase gates, my one marine sentry (Boo) now guarded 2 hives, while my 2-man HMG assault team (Duffy and Rabbi-something) captured the last hive.
Marines are a team, and if they work in groups, they can be awesome. Can a single marine, however equipped, take out a fade? Who cares?
Amen.
1. Let the fade run, you do not win ns games with killing the enemy, you win it with killing his structures (one of the many reasons why those frag counters in ns even mean less than they allready do in other games). You can take much more damage than a fade with regeneration and still more than one with carapace and you do much more dmg per timeframe. The fade can run away from you? What is the problem, a running fade is no threat, just move to your real target.
2. If for some strange reason your top priority is to kill some fades rather than the alien hives then:
a) Use lmg/la for it, if you die it costs you nothing and you have a good chance to kill them even in a 1on1 situation. If you can't kill him then you at least bring him down enough that either someone else kills him or he has to retreat beeing no threat for some time.
b) Start aiming and walk in groups. 3 hmg guys who actually aim can take a fade down before he realizes that he gets shot (which is long before he even thinks about running away).
I want to see actual proof.
Prove to me where its happening, when its happening and why its happening. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of the alien hitboxes properly match their model, its not so much a bug as it is a fact of the game. The fade's is probably the most accurate hitbox of any alien, but it isn't perfect, especially when viewed from the side on or while jumping. The hitbox for the onos on the other hand is horrific. These aren't really problems that can or will be fixed, its just that HL won't support properly rotating hitboxes. A skulk is elongated, but if you gave it an elongated hitbox, you run into all sorts of problems when it starts turning. Instead, its hitbox is very similar to the marines: a square-like upright rectangle than doesn't rotate. Viewed side on, only about half of a skulk is actually hittable, you can test this easily with a friend, and there have been demos posted before which showed this clearly.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do note that while only half the skulk model is hittable, half of the actual hitbox is outside the skulk model, sticking up like a big invisible flag from its middle. Once you realize this, you will find it easy to kill skulks by shooting OVER their backs .. especially fun if they are trying to protect themselves by going behind a low obstacle.
Fades and gorges have fairly accurate hitboxes, lerks uses the skulk hitbox and onoses have among the smallest hitbox of all aliens (only something like 1/4 of an Onos is covered by the hitbox).
This is easy to test with two computers and a LAN game ... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've had several 1.04 games on pubs where we get fades and the commander, who's been dilligently locking down resource towers (like <i>locking them down</i> with turrets and ****) has 6 or so RTs and just walks a big group of HA to the hives. Redemption is only useful as a way to save resources (and really doesn't even work if, like me, you have a low framerate: the client redeems you and the server kills you in the hive), and if you get redeemed at the hive, well...
Of course this is only really relevant to pubs - has anyone ever seen HA in a match or scrim?
-K
Fades and gorges have fairly accurate hitboxes, lerks uses the skulk hitbox and onoses have among the smallest hitbox of all aliens (only something like 1/4 of an Onos is covered by the hitbox).
This is easy to test with two computers and a LAN game ... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, and I'll confirm this. Verbose and I spent an afternoon testing all the hitboxes (as well as damage numbers based on upgrades). The Onos is especially funny because he has such a strange/high hitbox that he can literally run right over the top of ground based mines without setting them off and takes no damage when shot in the head/legs from the side. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
All that said... does it bother me? Not really. Sure, I'd like more accurate hitboxes, but when working with an engine as old as Half-life, I'm already amazed at what the devs managed to do with it. I'm surprised there aren't even MORE shortcomings.
Two hive aliens are not a big deal anymore. A good commander with competent teammates will just cut right through to a hive. Secure the hive, kill any remaining fades (not hard, even without HA), regroup, and then wipe out the last hive.
On my home from work I was thinking about last nights game and how easy it has become to kill Fades. One game on nancy me and another guy had HA, I had a HMG and he a GL. I joined a bit late and we were taking a beating but the COM had enough to equip me and this other fellow. Killed 3 Fades within a time fram of about 3 seconds. They were heading for Sub Space hive, I spotted them on MT and just walked out into the hallway and gunned them down. The HMG's damage with lvl2 or 3 upgrade is just awesome.
Was Commanding on ns_eclipse after the previous COM ditched us. The aliens had 2 hives and most marines where just cowering in base asking for health. I got tired of it and jumped out, rushed 2 Fades that were probably a bit hurt already, they started retreating, I got the first with my LMG and whipped out the pistol to finish the other. After that the Marines started attacking them again and Fades were dropping alll over.
With Redemption the Fades are useless since they can't stay in the fight long enough to do any real damage, Regeneration is only useful for 'guerilla' tactics, basically a Fade needs Carapace and 3 DC's within reasonable range to be efficient. The DC's can be taken out with Sieg or GL's if they're covered, denying the Fades the ability to heal (my favorite thing as COM is to wait until the Fades run back to heal then ping the DC's, killed 3 Fades with one siege blast like that once).
Uppgraded HA+HMG/GL is *way* more powerful then fades. Aliens need to be REALLY on the ball to combat multiple HA's unless the Marines are really stupid (fortunately for aliens, many HA suits come with a free lobotomy). Totallly unupgraded and unequipped marines will suffer from fades, but with lvl2 arm/wep you have a *good* chance of taking them out, and you cost *nothing*. Basically the problem is psychological, one marine attacks a fade and dies. He doesn't kill the Fade and doesn't realise he hurt it and it is now running away to heal, so he thinks it's invulnerable.
I think that a LA marine with upgrades and a HMG is pretty much equal to a fade in combat abilities, add a Jetpack and he has the advantage.
Umm... anyway, what I ment to say was "SUYF n00b!!@@!", please stop whining and start playing better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and if this has already been said, sorry, didn't check the replies much.
I want to see actual proof.
Prove to me where its happening, when its happening and why its happening. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of the alien hitboxes properly match their model, its not so much a bug as it is a fact of the game. The fade's is probably the most accurate hitbox of any alien, but it isn't perfect, especially when viewed from the side on or while jumping. The hitbox for the onos on the other hand is horrific. These aren't really problems that can or will be fixed, its just that HL won't support properly rotating hitboxes. A skulk is elongated, but if you gave it an elongated hitbox, you run into all sorts of problems when it starts turning. Instead, its hitbox is very similar to the marines: a square-like upright rectangle than doesn't rotate. Viewed side on, only about half of a skulk is actually hittable, you can test this easily with a friend, and there have been demos posted before which showed this clearly.
As for marines, their hitbox is quite accurate because they fit the ideal scenario of a box-like base. A marine model can rotate around but still occupy the same position on your screen, unlike the elongated aliens who have a wider model when viewed side on. The marine model accurately matches the area that you can land hits on.
The people complaing about landing skulk bites will mention problems with the marine hitbox (Crouching in vents etc.) But im quite sure the problem isnt with the marine, but with the skulk bite itself. From what i can gather, the bite does not come from the jaws on your screen at all, but from the "head" of the hitbox, which is situated about a foot above the skulks midsection. In other words, you aren't biting with the jaws on your screen, you're biting with an invisible pair of jaws on a retractable arm hovering a short distance above your viewpoint...
Meaning when you run into a vent to bite a marine, you're aiming your bite into the roof of the vent and missing the marine who goes underneath your bite. When im at home i'll take a demo so you can have your "proof". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
one word: <b>WOW</b>
how do u know all that?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->?
lol. You need to control the game, not let THEM control the game. You should have hit their hive. That would have stopped them from hitting the RTs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->how do u know all that?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably the model viewer.
An effective anti-fade tactic: The Pincer Attack
One marine hides in a location the fade will pass on it's way to the base alternatively runs around when the fade comes and catches it unaware in a pincer-like thingy. (hence the name)
Works even better with hmgs or shotguns since they are so powerful up close.
Anyways, this is basic strategy learnt in bootcamp, but the Fronteirsmen seem to be short on manpower since so many marines skip basic training and jump straight into the fray.
Probably the model viewer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No actually i use the incredibly scientific method of getting someone to stand still while i pump bullets into them ;)
I said i'd have a hitbox demo by tonight, i didn't get chance to do a new one like i wanted, but i still have this old one that was done in 1.03. Everything in this demo still applies, none of this is any different in 1.04, i'll see if i can do a more updated demo whenever i get chance:
www.oclube.com/usuarios/TeoH/hitbox.zip
And don't tell me "just use your welder." It has happened to me MORE THAN ONCE to be completely idle with my welder out while welding at the floor and yet still be webbed by a gorge spamming away at me.
Played one game like this yesterday as marines and it took 2 hours once it got to this stage for us to finally get to their hive and take it out. Some of the battles were amazing.
The best bit about that game for me was when me with HA+GL and 2 HA+HMG marines got attacked by 3 Fades and a Lerk who dropped Umbra all around us. The Fades immediatly came in close to use their swipe attacks I started spamming nades all over the floor while one of the HMGers unloaded his HMG point blank at the Lerk killing it, he immediatly went down after that as the Fades ripped him to bits meanwhile the other HMGer had just finished re-loading and opened up again at the 3 Fades still in umbra while I continued to spam nades at them one Fade dissapeared because of redemption, by this time the Umbra wore off and one Fade died by the HMGer. The last Fade tried to jump past the HMGer (who was realoading) and get to me but the HMGer jumped in his way and was killed in a couple of swipes, this time I though I was fooked because I had four nades left which I fired at the fade one hitting while the others hit the walls of the corridor as I was being swiped and bashed silly :/. Then I saw the HMG of the first marine to die on the floor so I pressed G and dropped my nade launch to pick up the HMG, I then cut the Fade down in a matter of seconds <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a team of fully upgraded HA/HMG should take out a few fades, instead of losing ground only to be level par with turrets behind them. Dont you?
I think a team of fully upgraded HA/HMG should take out a few fades, instead of losing ground only to be level par with turrets behind them. Dont you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it comes down to the skill of the player as both are evenly matched. Some of the more experienced players I know go for Celerity as a Fade so they can rush in at stupid speeds beat up a HA marine and zip out again. It's very difficult to shoot at Fade with Celerity that is running round you all the while hitting you.
I want to see actual proof.
Prove to me where its happening, when its happening and why its happening. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
None of the alien hitboxes properly match their model, its not so much a bug as it is a fact of the game. The fade's is probably the most accurate hitbox of any alien, but it isn't perfect, especially when viewed from the side on or while jumping. The hitbox for the onos on the other hand is horrific. These aren't really problems that can or will be fixed, its just that HL won't support properly rotating hitboxes. A skulk is elongated, but if you gave it an elongated hitbox, you run into all sorts of problems when it starts turning. Instead, its hitbox is very similar to the marines: a square-like upright rectangle than doesn't rotate. Viewed side on, only about half of a skulk is actually hittable, you can test this easily with a friend, and there have been demos posted before which showed this clearly.
As for marines, their hitbox is quite accurate because they fit the ideal scenario of a box-like base. A marine model can rotate around but still occupy the same position on your screen, unlike the elongated aliens who have a wider model when viewed side on. The marine model accurately matches the area that you can land hits on.
The people complaing about landing skulk bites will mention problems with the marine hitbox (Crouching in vents etc.) But im quite sure the problem isnt with the marine, but with the skulk bite itself. From what i can gather, the bite does not come from the jaws on your screen at all, but from the "head" of the hitbox, which is situated about a foot above the skulks midsection. In other words, you aren't biting with the jaws on your screen, you're biting with an invisible pair of jaws on a retractable arm hovering a short distance above your viewpoint...
Meaning when you run into a vent to bite a marine, you're aiming your bite into the roof of the vent and missing the marine who goes underneath your bite. When im at home i'll take a demo so you can have your "proof". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ding ding ding we have a winner.
Surprised to see you requesting proof of the hitbox bug fox. There was a topic in the bugs forum that got large and I believe got a response from Flarya. It was proven with screenshots by many people. I even did a test on my server and noticed the model to be very different than the binding box. The Onos hit box is nearly 1/3 the size of his model <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good call on the skulk bite being the problem. It completely makes sense. It also make sense why the bite is hovering above your pov; so it doesn't collide with the floor.
Email that to Flarya, he may not know that this could be a reason for the "hitbox bug"