Upgrades Order

Nether · February 2003

Most people in pubs are still doing Armor>Weapons>Armor>Weapons>Armor Weapons

Most average players seem to prefer this as its caught on as the norm, but armor is not nearly as usefull as damage for me and id say everyone (once they accept it). Best way to go I reckon is Weapons>Weapons>Armor>Armor>Weapons>Armor.

Better weapons means, you can drop the skulk before it gets into melee with you = no damage. Armor makes it more likely the skulk will reach melee range and either kill you or damage you. The benefits of armor pale in comparison.

Theres also MT alot of people seem to prefer this first, MT is overrated, sound can tell you a skulk is coming just as well as MT, I find it abit distracting aswell, most of the time I ignore the circles and just concentrate on what im doing.

In pub games I seem to always have to moan at the commander to get weapons upgrades, with 4 noobs saying no get armor first or dont get upgrades get MT. Quite a few players are unable to reliably kill a good lvl 3 carapaced skulk from almost any range, yet they think knowing its coming is going to help them more than doing extra damage to it.

Weapons are by far the most important early upgrade. If you want marines to do better you will get the best out of them with damage +

Havanna · February 2003

Level 1 armor first is usually preferred, because it takes 3 bites for a skulk to kill you. But think about it, when you're marine is bit twice... it's usually because they're reloading or something. Rarely, if ever, have I seen that extra bite mean anything, because 2 bites while you're reloading is no different than one. I go weapons first, then armor, because its cheaper, and then weapons again. I usually stop there, or go weapons one more time. Lvl 2 armor really means nothing, unless they have fades and you're rushing them. Level 2 and 3 armor cash is 100 though, and can be used to research HA's or JP's.

ogz · February 2003

sound can tell u if a skulk is near you but doesn't do much to tell you if they are grouping up in the opposite side of the map to rush a hive spot that no one is guarding <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

MT + phasegates + 1-2 marines is btr than no MT and 1 guy at each important location <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

lv2 armour is wasted vs skulks, i would go weapon1,2,armor1,weapon3,armour2,3

kavasa · February 2003

Yes, because I disagree with you (I'm a fan of MT and armor upgrades first) I am perforce a quote, noob, endquote.

You know, I might be willing to discuss the relative merits of the various upgrades at some point... But certainly not with the "I'M RIGHT AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS NECESARILY WRONG SO THERE" crowd. Jesus.

-K

TeoH · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nether @ Feb 5 2003, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Better weapons means, you can drop the skulk before it gets into melee with you = no damage. Armor makes it more likely the skulk will reach melee range and either kill you or damage you. The benefits of armor pale in comparison.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You're only comparing the 2 based on quite limited logic of offence versus defence, rather than actually looking at how the upgrades work in NS.

Lv1 weapons upgrade increases the damage delt by your weapons by 10%. Meaning 11 dmg per LMG shot instead of 10. However, against pre-carapace skulks, it still takes the same number of bullets to drop a skulk wether you have lv1 weapons or not. Because of the way the damage rounds off, its 9 LMG shots regardless of your upgrade. The same problem applies to the pistol. It isnt untill the skulks have carapace that the weapon upgrade does anything at all, and even then the difference is slight at lv1.

Lv1 armour adds 20 extra armour on spawn. In total, the amount of difference this makes to a marines effective health is minimal, but... 2 skulk bits only just manage to kill a regular LA marine, the armour upgrade *just* pushes the marines effective health past the 2 bite mark meaning it takes 3 bites to kill each marine. The difference in armour may be slight, but the effect it has on your survivability versus skulks is large.

So... you have an upgrade which effectively boosts your damage by 0%, versus an upgrade that effectively increases your resistance by 50%. You can spew any logic you like about killing skulks before they reach you, but the when faced with the above situation the choice is obvious.

As for the choice of 2nd upgrade, lv2 armour suffers from the same problem as lv1 weapons, in otherwords it has no benefit at all due to how damage rounds off. At lv2 armour, you still take 3 skulk bites to die. The most cost effective option at this point is to take lv1, then lv2 weapons. Once at lv2 weapons, you do get a noticable difference in damage output.

Unless you have a very late arms lab, the most effective order for the first 3 upgrades would be: armour, weapons, weapons. This is an observation based on how NS works, not wether you think offense is better than defence.

trav · February 2003

Motion tracking, armor, weapon, armor, armor

no arguement, on any pub server that is the best order

Kid-A · February 2003

Considering its no argument how about this:
MT, lvl 1 weapons, lvl1 armour, lvl2 weaps, lvl 3 weaps

Why? MT is very useful. Good marines bcome very good and it helps you as a comm. Lvl 1 weapons mainly to counter cara, but also. Good marines with MT and lvl 1 weaps are extremely formidable early game and if the marine are bad then tbh I'll put my faith in turrets and mines which also get a bonus.

MT and upg'd weaps means decent marines can (usually) destroy a skulk before is even gets close. I expect decent marines even if i dont get them.

KMO · February 2003

I'm totally behind TeoH in this.

I'd generally take the view that weapon upgrade is better than an armour upgrade (keeps the aliens back AND upgrades the turrets), with the exception that lvl1 armour is SO good against skulks (3 bites not 2), it's the one to get first. So Armour, Weapons, Weapons, Armour, Weapons, Armour.

Lvl2 armour is no real use against skulks, but it helps you stay alive a bit longer with fades acid spamming - you may even gain the time to reload <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

As for motion tracking? Probably some time in parallel with the level 1 upgrades. If I have enough res (I'd always aim to get at least 4 towers), I'll buy a 2nd arms lab to hurry up the level 2/3 upgrades.

On another point, just to clarify, the <b>amount</b> of light armour is pretty irrelevant, as you die before it runs out (unless you get medpacks). The difference is in the <b>% of damage absorbed</b>. This is 30%,40%,50% or 60%, depending on the level of upgrade. On the other hand, heavy armour always absorbs 95% of damage, regardless of upgrades, and runs out before your health. There the extra armour from upgrades gains you an extra 60 damage survival.

KMO · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Feb 5 2003, 08:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>MT and upg'd weaps means decent marines can (usually) destroy a skulk before is even gets close. I expect decent marines even if i dont get them.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I've seen a lot of comms make that mistake <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Havanna · February 2003

I concede armor is usually the best choice, hell it's what I normally do. On extremely nublike teams, I like to go weapons 1 first, but that's a rare case. Normally, I'd go armor1, weapon1, MT and weapon2 (choose one to go first depending on the situtation).

Stoneburg · February 2003

Shesh, I thought people were more flexible. Ever considered varying your "tactics" depending on how/what your team and the enemies are doing?

I usually go Armor first, then Wep (since 99% of the time Aliens get def and carapace). If Aliens were to get a 2:nd hive up now I would go armor again, then weapon weapon. That's not likely though, so I tend to go to lvl3 weps before getting lvl2 and 3 armor.

On some maps MT is more important then others (ns_caged for example) so I tend to get it early, on others it's not so important. Also depends on the scenario, but usually I get the armor and wep upgrades (lvl 1) before MT.

So, *usually*, I would go:

Arm/Wep/MT/Wep/Wep/Arm/Arm

Armor lvl2 is main priority as soon as 2:nd hive is up though.

Dadden · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (trav @ Feb 5 2003, 06:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Motion tracking, armor, weapon, armor, armor

no arguement, on any pub server that is the best order  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
This is only good if you are going for HA since level 3 weapons beats level 3 armour.
I usually go LV1 armour > LV1 weapons and MT >LV2 weapons > LV 3 weapons

Firewater · February 2003

I always go with armor first then all weapons, then all armor (by L2 weapons the game is over anyways, but thats my ideal plan just incase). Now am I a newb? LOL no, just because someone wants a certain upgrade first, doesnt make them newbs. My reasons for choosing lvl 1 armor first is that the marines can have an armor upgrade before the aliens get 2 d chambers up. Send your marines to kill the d chamber that is standing. When you can take more bites, you can get more bullets off. That extra 10% damage doesnt help when a skulk gets the drop on you (if you say that never happens then you are an obvious liar) in which case, the battle starts in CQB, not with a skulk charging.

I will agree with you on the MT but it useful to finding gorges.

FlatlineUTD · February 2003

I usually tend to get MT first and foremost, followed by armor>weapon>weapon>armor>weapon>armor.

Eclipse · February 2003

Armor 1, Weapons 1, Weapons 2, Weapons 3, Armor 2&3 if necessary. Armor 1 is, as has been said is so critical, it bumps up your acid rocket survivability, your skulk survivability. And at weapons 3 light armor marines can take down fades..semi-reliable. I'd rather spend the other money on researching heavy armor and save up to pass it out. I grew up on the linux servers, I find MT to be a nuisance, because of the 1 second lag behind it I get lazy and mess up. I'd rather rely on sound and my instincts than some hokey blue blip. But thats just me. But same goes with my buddies too, we had a linux server and had no MT and we rox0r3d <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> against skulks.

Archzai · February 2003

i go level 2 armor before i upgrade any weapons ....

i also get MT while getting level 2 armor..... or before level 2 armor..

why? cuz i believe that the more armor they have the morebullets they can get off... q

ZERG · February 2003

Amor 1, Weapons 1, 2 and then the rest...

Armor 2 and 3 don't really give a clear benefit except for HA. Weapons 3 or Armor 3 is just too expensive and long too research. The only times I research them is when I've won the game anyway and just want to prolong the alien's suffering or I've lost anyway so might as well put up a big fight.

Cyborgguineapig · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mulock @ Feb 6 2003, 09:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> another thing about getting armor instead of weapons>weapons is because of when you get those jps done, you want your marines (who you have already invested 9 into with the jp and possibly 25 in for an hmg) to survive the most bites as possible. Without weapons upgrades I believe it takes two full hmg clips to down a hive, and that is what is most important. Armor first for me. Armor>weapon>armor>armor>weapon>weapon.... it shouldnt really get passed armor 1 and weapon 1 in most games.

also... why is everyone so into MT sure its good but jp/upgrades are far better.... I mean its not always a good thing to know that lvl 3 carapaced skulks are going to own your motion tracking no upgraded **** :-p Mt is good but i use it for gorge hunting :-\ You shouldnt really need it anyways you should worry more about controlling the aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

**Blah blah Blah, cyborg tries to control temper and edits all posts towards this individual because he went overboard with anger **

Upgrades Order

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