What Did I Do Wrong?!

Archzai · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">I was COMM on NS_eclipse.. pls analyze</div> Hi all,

i finished a game of NS on ns_eclipse as comm around 30 minutes ago, but only decided to type it out now
knowing most of you players are quite proffesional and skilled already.. i hope u can analyze and tell me wut i did wrong

I started out the game wif 1 ip 1 amory, 1 observe and made a phase gate. The aliens started in EC... so i moved my marines out to CC keeping two at base to guard... this was a 12 v 12 on a 24 person server.... while they are moving out i wait till i have enuff resources slap down another IP and get a Phase up in CC as soon as they get there... next i build a RT.... my group of 8 marines breaks down and 6 stay and guard CC while 2 go to Maint... i slap down a phase and a TF there asap while i make another TF in CC and get 2 turrets up due to slow resources.... anywayz to make that portion of the game short.... i lose CC because the skulks take it down and therefore i fortify Maint wif around 6 STs and 1 seiege in case of OCs....

all the while... i took an RT in western access and horshoe.... totalling 4 RTs... including the one in base....
by that time.. i had 2-2 weapons and armor and an upgraded armory.... then i upgrade for HA..... my marines keep patrolling my phases and i dun lose ny RTs or nything.....

then they get fades because my team is unable to regroup well enuff to get back to CC.... so by the time they get fades... i ahve approx have enuiff resources to give three ful kits.... 3 HA 2 HMGs and 1 GL with 2 welders..... these marines move out... and hold off the fades while i get level three armor... then things start breaking down

i keep throwing down HA GLS HMGS and welders and emphasize with CAPS and on voicecomm for them to please stick together and weld each other... but they dont...except 2 really good HAs that stick together and do quite a lot of damage.... meanwhile.. a stealthy light marine makes it outside eclipse and i throw done a phase and a TF.... i manage to upgrade the TF and right when i place downa siege fades relize and attack... my marines fail to get thru the pahse and had left earlier because they thot there was no threat... i told them to stay but they didnt....

i had two chances including that one to seige EClipse.. but they failed to comply.. and din't listen... more over... all along im throwing down kits.. of HMGs HA and GLs.... with plenty of welders... they make a stand.. and advance.. taking out half of their fades.... but then everyone breaks apart again... im literally screaming at them to stay together.... and how vital it is to our win.... most of the understand.... i admit... there was ONE time i made a mistake and didnt supply enuff medpacks.... but that was it... i lost 2 HA guys.... but the rest of the time i had more than enuff medpacks for everyone....

calculating and thinking back... i mustve thrown down enuff full kits for my whole team to each have it at least once.... if not even half of my team twice... but i always had 3-4 HA guys .... with heavy weaponary..

the problem was lack of welding... and even my teamates said it wasnt my fault.. was it tho?

if u need clarification.. jus post a question <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> thx

Tempus · February 2003

I think you answered your own question..

If your marines don't listen to you, you have very little hope.

Also, it is quite difficult to hold two hives anymore. Especially in a 12x12 game.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Error404 · February 2003

You should always keep sending a couple of marines to attack the occupied alien hive just to keep them busy and prevent them from getting organised.

It usually helps to be on the offensive in the early game, and often you'll get to bag a few gorges which really slows down the kharaa expansion.

Thats probably what you did wrong.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Wolv · February 2003

I mostly play on the alien team and agree that it can really slow us down when one or two of the gorges are killed in the early game, especially when we lose the RT they were about to build. Perhaps you need to put more emphasis on killing these gorges.
Don't exactly know how to though, but probably a combination of scanning res nodes and hives, sending out rambos and predicting where they will go.

Paq · February 2003

I think you commanded pretty well, but your team just sucked <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>
I mean that if you told several times to stick together and they went ramboing, then you are skrewed.
In big servers aliens have won many times, because they have got lots of fades, but it is pretty easy to secure two hives at start with big marine groups... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Firewater · February 2003

2 hive lock down is a difficult procedure, especially with no passive upgrades. Instead of getting an obs first, try getting an Arms lab with lvl 1 armor, and just keep attacking their hive to put pressure on them, it is not neccesary to lock down hives, all you have to do is prevent the aliens from expanding.

Aminal · February 2003

you built HA instead of JPs.
Seems you had a bunch of peeps that didn't listen and wanted to go alone a little more. failing that - just people who didn't support eachother. JP's are at least as good as HA and dont require welders for support or rely on other marines.

Should have teched to JP's and sieged from the CC Vent. Fades can't get in there and it's real difficult to take out as a skulk or lerk.

JP's would have allowed you to take out maint if they got that back too, as its a big expansive hive.

once you had CC and Maint secure - just protect those hives untill you take the fades they had down, and go after EC with full HMG upgrades all marines at once.

V_MAN · February 2003

You did fine, it's just your marines that sucked. It is soo annoying to watch a 7 foot waste of res wander off on his own and got munched to **** by some skulks.

Gargamel · February 2003

Jup, Marines should realize that HA doesnt make em invulnerable, but only enables them to fight back those cruel Fades. If they dont stick together they die so fast, that all res are gone and instead of a HA Team you re left with 2 HA Guys and the rest is "Snackfood" for the Fades. So, imho, its not your fault.
But what Error404 says is true. If you can get some good players at the enemy Hive very early to get some spawn-kills, Aliens get so sick, they die from puking! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
It happened to me as Alien once. We tryed to kill those **** for over 5 min, their Comm build res towers everywhere and before we know it, HA and JP ruined our 2nd Hive and then stomped down our 1st one.
Their Main Base had only Tripmines everywhere, and we lost. omg...

Offensive Marines really rule. Instead of fearing the ALiens, make the ALiens fear you!

Tryon · February 2003

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, but I think that there is one thing you could have done that <i>might</i> have made a difference. Granted, it sounds like you were having to fight the marines as much as the aliens, but I know that if you had capped more RTs, you wouldnt have had the problems you encountered. Even at one point you say that your res are coming in slow.

If your res are <u>ever</u> coming in slow, that means you need more RTs. You capped a total of 4 RTs (though I only counted 3, I'm assuming you got the one in maint and just didnt mention it). Four RTs are NOT enough to keep the marine juggernaut going. Remember, for the comm, this is a RTS, not FPS. You need res more than anything else to be able to build, research, and equip your marines.

Other than that, it sounds like your marines sucked and you couldnt have won. I just hope that the RT tip helps you out in the future.

Ph0enix · February 2003

Generally, I try and get full upgrades before handing out either HMGs or HA. Aside from that, it looks like you weren't quite agressive enough in early mid-game and your marines weren't working together.

Don't try and lockdown 2 hives at the same time. You don't need both hives within 5 minutes. In this instance, i'd have locked down CC, then moved back to maintenance. The phase and TF you made in maintenance might have been those extra crucial turrets you needed to hold CC, not to mention 2 extra marines. Don't put a TF down unless you can then start building turrets straight away.

2-hive lockdown <b>seems</b> easy, but its a lot of res down the drain early on if it doesnt work. I don't like it for this reason.

Tryon, he did put more RTS down, but after he'd lost CC. With 2-hive lockdown you cant be faffing about droipping RTs. Quite often for most of the game you exist on 3 RTs (base and each hive).

Gargamel, you just need full upgrades to take fades. HA/HMG is not nessacery. Marines which can shoot straight helps as well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

hoju2 · February 2003

It seems apparent from reading your post you know what your doing, unless your REALLY slow or anything, I think the blame resides on your Marines. For example in a recent game where I was Comming, 1 Skulk killed 4 Marines setting up a Phase outside their Hive. If your Marines aren't listening to you or can't shoot properly, theres little the Comm can do to help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Archzai · February 2003

Wow thanx everyone for all your help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Phoenix: yeah i notice it was probably part my fault beacuse i rushed too much... i shouldve held down CC longer to fortify it and taken advantage of the fact aliens have slow starts.... and yes for a while my Tfs had no turrets but for approx 1 minute....

Hoju: yes this is why comming gets annoying... because yesterday i sent my whole squad of marines... approx 8 who were IDLE... so i sent them to western entrane above reactor room in Tanith... well they all got schooled by 3 skulks.... that totally **** me off because they couldn't even get that done right.... not saying im great at the game or nything.. but due to the lack of good marines on the server i play at.. i tend to be a marine and be a field commander cuz im one of the only ones who can fight....

Tryon: Yes i did have maint res <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> hahha wut comm wouldnt put an RT down in a hive they captured? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> and yeah i understand what u mean... but i was getting around 11-12 rps per tick yesterday.... it was actually constant resources.... i never had zero until the end of the game....

Firewater: Yeah maybe an arms lab wouldve been helpful... but isnt it slower tho if i dun have phases early on for them to guard the hive?? Level one armor seems like a good idea.... and i probably did get upgrades a bit slower in that game.... but other than that.... should i have dished out shotguns? i was afriad itd be waste tho.. cuz half of those marines wouldve spammed their clip and wouldnt have waited for the skulk to come close.... btw... one shotgun shot up close kills a level three carapace skulk rite? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Vman & Paq: YEs exactly... i communicated thru voice comm and everything.... but i had 4-5 pretty good players but against 10 fades... they couldnt weld each other and needed help from other players... and well thoes "other players" were pretty much nonexistent....

Gargamel and Error404: Yeah i dun think i was offensive enuff in the game.... i shoulda destroyed more RTs etc..... but then i have a question regarding ur strat where u sit in their hive... if i have 12 vs 12.. how many should sit there... and wel wut if the already spawned skulks run back and gangbang those marines? T.T

Aminal: well yes... but not eveyrone is skilled with the JP... and the JP needs some time to learn... i admit even i ahvent mastered it yet.... and i cant really fly and shoot yet cuz COMMS rarely get Jps where i play.... and well hmm sure they are cheaper but htey are useless if ppl jus klil themselves from landing too ahrd etc.... and the lose the HMG they have

I think from now on maybe i'll do the same thing except slow down before maintenence.... cuz i think i did the right thing by taking the middle hive so that travel time to the third is a BIT longer but can mean the game for both sides..... i shouldve fortified it with my STs to make sure nothing would happen..... i was jus sorta ****.. lol.. cuz i gave out so many heavy kits that if i had my 3 clanmates there i swear i wouldve won... instead of 3 hopeless ppl that jus ran rite into a fade with HMG and ligharmor -.- whack whack dead ...

o btw.,,,normally.. wut is ur GL to HMG ratio? i normally give one GL per HMG..... thinking of three HA per squad and maybe 1 or 2 LMG marines with welders standing further back to weld..... and keeping these in groups.... so i could have aroudn 3 squads of 3 HA... but of course my idea never really got implemented and i think players really think that when they get HA and heavy weaponary... they recieved the hand of god or something.... and are invincible. Becauase eveyrone quickly split up.....

o btw..... should i have gone for EC or Maintenece after they took it.... becuase while they were bulding maintenence they had no defense??? cuz my thinking was to QUICKLY sweep out eclipse and then attack maintenence while it was still forming... to knock them down to 1 hive.... but QUICK didntr really seem to be a vocab word they had... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Ryan · February 2003

You did fine, its the fact that the marines didnt listen that killed you. If your marines dont listen to you, its a hopeless battle.

slaps · February 2003

I must admit that now since 1.04 more than ever "STICKING TOGETHER" as marines really helps.

I hardly ever win as comm now if marines wander off by themselves or they ignore waypoints. So yeah I agree it wasnt all your fault <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Grunts sometimes forget the word "TEAM" in teamwork which is what this game is based on

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

AfterShock · February 2003

You didnt secure CC enough. You gotta remember that the early skulk rushes are relatively unco-ordinated. After you have a hive for 5 minutes, skulks start TALKING to each other and saying, this aint working, lets meet up. Suddenly instead of one or two skulks at a time u get 5 or 6. Never underestimate this! Of course it helps if you go out to meet them - they usually meet up outside your base and if you have someone waiting in the corner for them u'll get early warning. On that map i'd probably get about 6 turrets (this is 12v12 right? loadsa res!) and spam some shotties, tell marines to go rush the nme, go gorge hunting, res tower hunting etc. The more gorges / res towers of theirs goes down, the less important it is to get that 2nd hive. ok so they have leap and webs, but none of them can afford fade <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

MaTT · February 2003

You commanded well.... your marines sucked elephant testicles......

What Did I Do Wrong?!

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