How Can I Be The Best Gorge For My Team?
Lev
Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12814Members
Join Date: 2003-01-27 Member: 12814Members
Hello I’m kind of new to natural selection. I have played enough games to know the mechanics and how to build what and what structures do what. But where I am still lacking is overall strategy. First off I almost exclusively play gorges. So my questions need to be answered by those who know how to play this type of creature.
So for your veteran gorges how do you play? What buildings do you set down first? Or in other words how should I start out playing an ns game to make my team have the largest advantage? What tricks of the trade do I need to know to get around the best marine tricks? What building placing tricks work the best for you guys?
And for the other alien players who are not gorges my question to you is.: What do you need me to do to make you the most effective and deadly alien that you can be?
Well thank you for your time.
-Lev
So for your veteran gorges how do you play? What buildings do you set down first? Or in other words how should I start out playing an ns game to make my team have the largest advantage? What tricks of the trade do I need to know to get around the best marine tricks? What building placing tricks work the best for you guys?
And for the other alien players who are not gorges my question to you is.: What do you need me to do to make you the most effective and deadly alien that you can be?
Well thank you for your time.
-Lev
Comments
At start of game build One defense chamber
then put down three RTs (with one existing on means we have four)
then go for second hive right away.
When second hive is being born plant defenses (OC and DC)
then go to first hive and establish defenses same as above.
Then work on upgrades.
How does this sound?
-Lev
Being a good gorge is mainly knowing the maps and knowing how to defend as many important points as possable (RTs and hives) with as few WoLs as possable.
(WoL = wall of lame, if your new, it means when you build a wall of OCs and then a similar number of DCs behind them, the size of these can vary from 3 towers to 14).
Keep it coming!
-Leviathan
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At start of game build One defense chamber
then put down three RTs (with one existing on means we have four)
then go for second hive right away.
When second hive is being born plant defenses (OC and DC)
then go to first hive and establish defenses same as above.
Then work on upgrades.
How does this sound?
-Lev <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would'nt recommend placing a def. chamber first up, rather go for res first and if you see that your skulks are taking a pounding, gor for def.
Putting up def first will cost you too many res. points in the long run, 14 to put it up and the res. points your skulks will be using to evolve...
The biggest plus for a gorge is communicating with your team, they need to let you know where the marines are headed and push them to parasite as much as possible. Knowing where they are headed will help you know which area's of the map will be safe to start putting up res. points.
As mentioned here it is also vital to know the map like the back of your hand, and use your hive sight. This can also let you know which way the marines are headed.
There has also been the debate of whether to put up sensory or defence first, this all depends on the circumstances, if the marines are planning to relocate their base elsewhere it woud be best to put up defence first. If they are sitting at spawn putting up serious defence then sensory is advisable, skulks can then cloak and just camp outside until they decide to leave <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hope this helps...
<b>Last but not least</b>, NEVER, I repeat NEVER, mistake Offense for Defence. This happened on a server I played the other night, when the team kept asking the gorge to build Defence, we ended up with about 100 offence chambers and not a singe defence!!!
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Thanks
-Lev
In the beginning your primary goal and ONLY concern should be with getting a strong resource flow and putting up the second hive as quickly as possible.
It is your skulks job to 1) keep the marines locked in their base or at least paranoid as hell 2) keep them out of your original hive and 3) to keep them out of your new hive.
This means you MUST communicate with your skulks.
ie: " I am going Gorge"
" I am building a resource in Cargo"
" I am building the second hive in fusion"
"Incoming marines to fusion" etc etc.
When towers and structures come under attack YOU know where they are as YOU built them. Instruct your skulks to attack the marines attacking your structures as they may not always be paying attention to what is being attacked. Also ASK your forward skulks for info. "where are the marines?", "what hive are they after?", "IS XXXX hive clear?" etc etc.
worst thing you can do is to waddle off to a hive to build there and find it full of marines.
I usually try for 3 resource towers (plus my original) and then a defense then a hive under optimal conditions. Then 2 more defense and start building forward defense around the second hive. If your skulks are not performing well you may have to change this strategy. You may need to build at least one defense early but NEVER before you've built your first resource tower. Keep in mind that building a defense WILL slow you down as your skulks won't hit overflow as quickly (as they will be carapacing) and you just spent 2/3 of the resources needed for your next resource tower.
A gorge has to be willing to change his game plan constantly as the game is always in motion and Marines can mess things up royally. Sometimes a hive must be delayed so that you can get some decent defenses up. Especially if your skulks are getting owned.
When you start building defenses after starting the second hive I like to drop 2 offense and a defense close to the hive entrance to block off a quick run by a marine and to warn me of anyone entering the hive. (It also helps to have that there in case you run into marines as you are moving forward. Any decent marine team should be making a stab at your second hive by the time you've started building it. Having those 3 towers gives you somewhere to run to if you encounter a lone marine ramboing. )
then move forward to a choke point and build your wall of lame there. Don't allow them to get to areas where they can seige your hive and walls of lame all in one shot. Make them have to build TWO turret farms to do it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
while you are building be conscious of skulks running up to you... they probably want to be healed so do it quickly.
Know the choke points and keep yourself informed of how the marines are doing. A poor commander or a bad marine team can sometimes get holed up in their base for a while. Sometimes in that case it is worth the risk for a gorge to move forward after the second resource tower and drop 2 oc's and a dc at a choke point which locks them out of much of the map or makes them have to take a VERY long route to get somewhere. On nancy a good place is the door at mess hall, on caged a good place is in that dark hallway between sewer vestibule and marine start. A few offense and defense towers at that choke point cuts them off from sewer and ventilation. They have to go through generator to get there and it is a LONG trek!
This can be VERY risky. If you can get the chambers up quickly and undisturbed then you have likely won. If the skulks have kept them in their start THAT long then they are probably not very good marines and will likely just run away from a mini wall of lame like that rather than make a dedicated push for it.
However I prefer to take the safer route in most cases and just concentrate on getting the second hive up. The trick to Gorging is simply to stay informed and to keep your team informed and never forget your goal. Get that second hive up as QUICKLY as possible. 3 or 4 resource towers first. then the hive under optimal situations. Defense towers ONLY if needed.
There's a number of different ways to be a good Gorge.
First thing you should do is <b><u>determine what kind of Gorge you want to be</u></b>. Here's a quick description of each:
o <b>builder</b> - goes all over the map and builds hives, resource towers, and defenses, and avoids combat whenever possible.
o <b>defensive</b> - mainly builds OC/DC fields and spins a few webs, but rarely strays far from a hive, and will usually use movement chambers to move around if available.
o <b>offensive</b> - is out on the front lines of battle, spamming healspray on fades and lerks, building OC/DC fields to attack marine outposts, spins webs on the HA/HMG's and jetpackers, and so on.
The type of Gorge you are will usually dictate the upgrades you choose. Once you're comfortable with your choice, make use of it.
If you're playing an offensive Gorge, let your team know that you want to come along on the next attack on a marine base - most Fades and Lerks will be happy to have you along. Webs will disable the expensive HA/HMG's, healspray will keep the aliens alive, and a movement chamber nearby will let them escape to a hive if the marines put up a strong defensive.
If you're playing defensive, learn the best ways to drop OC/DC chambers. It's hard to describe in a text message, but try and set them far enough into a chokepoint so the marines have to come into the open to fire, but not far enough away so the chambers can't properly track a target. Remember that OC's fire slowly and not very accurately. Webbing along the floors will help the OC's in tracking, but it'll usually only work once and then they'll most likely siege the chokepoint.
If you're playing builder, make sure you've got 3 of every available chamber up as soon as they're available. Once your second and third hive goes up, you should know what the team wants next by asking while the hive is going up. Drop 3 right away, and usebuild them. Your comrades will appreciate the level 3 upgrades. I would also suggest having 3 of each chamber in each hive. That way, if you lose a hive, you've still got your level 3 upgrades.
You can mix-and-match the three 'personalities' however you want (or even be all three at once), but I find that one of them are how most Gorges will play.
Secondly, <b><u>know how the Kharaa resource system works</u></b>!! I've seen far too many Gorges on a team simply because many players don't know the resource system. One gorge on a team at first is all you need.
Also, once the resources are about to be capped at 33 on the Skulks, strongly advise that they <b>not</b> evolve into Lerk. If the Skulks aren't taking in any more resources, that means that the Gorges are getting the full income every tick. This is <b>very important</b>.
Third point is to <b><u>know the maps</u></b>. If you're the only Gorge and someone requests "DC field in Triad", for example, you'd better know how to get there quickly from any hive location. People are depending on you to get those DC's up, so you should have at least one up before they feel the need to ask "Hey Gorge, where are those DC's I asked for?".
I won't suggest a build order, because it varies from player to player, but the idea is to get that second hive up as soon as possible. If the skulks can keep the marines busy for a few minutes, then all you'll need to do is drop resource towers for now. Once the second hive is going up, <i>then</i> start making the chambers.
Anyways, I hope this helps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here's a couple little tricks.
Ideally you want to have a skulk hovering around you and taking that marine out while he is distracted with trying to kill you. However thats not always possible and its rare to find a skulk with the patience to do that.
Gorges are fairly hard to kill compared to skulks. And full carapace more than doubles the number of bullets required to kill a gorge. So carapace is usually a good choice to take early on. Also, in a firefight, defense towers are MUCH more useful than offense towers for a gorge. If you think that you might see marines soon. Build your defense tower first. Offense towers can't hit bugger all half the time. However keeping a defense tower between you and a lone marine while you spam health spray means you have a decent chance of taking out a lone marine one on one. The defense tower heals you and blocs a lot of the bullets. Your health spray heals the defense tower and hurts the marine. I have killed many a rambo with this tactic. The same tactic can be done with hives. If you run into a marine and are close to a hive. Get within its healing zone. Those little bits of health from the hive healing you may mean the difference between living or dieing. If you can't get the marine with your spray a skulk is sure to spawn soon anyhow and help you out.
Also keep in mind that your primary attack SUCKS! it does barely any damage... has a slow rate of fire and takes time to travel to its target so is VERY easy to avoid. You can use it at range but don't expect to ever hit a moving marine with it. ALWAYS switch to your heal spray at close range. it does about the same damage but it is an area effect and is bound to catch the marine. And it actually has a pretty decent range on it... the spray animation is misleading.
with 2 hives... life becomes much easier for gorges. web is your number one weapon. Well placed webs can save your life and a webbed marine who gets circle strafed and sprayed to death by a chubby bunny will feel like a complete idiot when he dies. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Webbing is definetly the Gorge's best tactic. I was playing a game the other day on Caged, we had our three hives, and at this point we were just toying with them. It was a long game (90+ mins) with the team advantage going back and forth the whole time, so now that we finally had the upper hand for good, we were just having some fun.
There was myself (as Gorge) and another Gorge waddling towards the marine spawn to set up some DC's when we encountered two HA/HMG's. We both simultaneously spun webs around them before we took any real damage, then healsprayed the whole area. We healed each other while slowly killing the two marines.
Despite the fact that they were obviously frustrated while being webkilled, we all still had a laugh from it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Basically, if you've got two hives up and you're travelling alone, have web equipped and ready to shoot!! A lone marine has no chance against a good web-slinging Gorge.
unless enemys are heavy on the attacking force then i`ll probably lay down some dc`s and mabye even one or two oc, but i mainly concentrate of starting off the hive.
yeah the gorge really does need to be a sorta commander for kharaa, but instead of marine comm sending his marines to go build in hazardous area, the gorge gotta semi-command and build, if hes not disturbed then he can do fine, but in a wide open area its best to keep behind some cover. unless you here then walk in, *drop* and welding sounds, then you gotta shout to ya skulks to get over to X and kill em cos they are making gate here.
also, don`t forget the babblers, with ardenline its real good for keeping marines back, having then little buggers swamp HA`s is great fun!
Quote "ARHHHHH help TEAM! need skulks in ref NOW!"
"this is your gorge needing assistance 3 light HMGS in REF AAAHHHRRR!"
"HELP HELP i`am in here and thier gonna blast da hive and me to bits!!"
all over voice comm.
so it can be usefull to have a skulk or two hang around with you while building, i have viewed this tactic from both perspectives.
the skulk bodyguard and the vunerable gorge.
1) res node
2) 3 def or some sensory.
3) res node
4) res node
5) hive
After that it all becomes rather fluid.
If you get less than 3 def nodes your skulks are barly getting an upgrade. If you get 3 defs befor 1 res you're intire build is slowed down significantly.
BlueGhost
I don't think it would be very wise for you trying to memorize strategies given somewhere instead of trying and finding the right paths yourself.
If you are too stupid to figure the widely used strategies yourself, you might be just a bit too slow and uncreative to handle it when things get tough (upgraded HA/HMGs versus fades etc.). Usually people don't badmouth gorges who can TYPE and READ (by this I mean that not only you can type and write, but you use those abilities as well). You could just ask what to do and probably get good answers by a helpful person. If you just dare to ask precisive question about building orders and just talk to your teammates, you'll be bound to become good. If you just play along silently doing "your own thing" without questioning ("Is cargo hive secure? Is the way there clear?") or helping your teammates attack bases by healing them or building DCs (or whatever your teammates might prefer) to the frontline, you probably won't be missed if you leave. Gorging in battle demands good combat skills (especially if you want to use your web to full potential) which you won't get if you just sit in a quiet corner doing nothing but stacking buildings. This is also a good reason for trying to master "all" instead of just gorging... Besides, you won't get bored of NS if you can change from gorging to a jetpacking marine without huge doubts about your skill <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's good advice. You'll usually remember something better by learning it yourself, but it doesn't hurt to have a hint beforehand.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you are too stupid to figure the widely used strategies yourself, you might be just a bit too slow and uncreative to handle it when things get tough... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a bit harsh, isn't it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can see your point amongst the flame, but the wording could definetly be more civil. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't worry I didnt take your post to be a flame at all. Because I knew off the bat that one strategy would not win all games. Any idiot can see that. Besides as your post could be seen as anal or have some flamage in it I understood what you were saying between the lines and agree with you. I have experience with other aliens. Although I dont have much experience with marines because when I started this game I was told aliens are harder to play, learn, and win with. I naturally gravitate towards that sort of challenge and find that aspect fun. I like the gorge the most because after a while i find the point and click killing boring and I found a taste of strategy in the gorge role of playing.
I also understand that your vantage point is quite blind to the other avenues of learning that I am doing. So also for that reason I didnt find your post insultive at all.....a bit naive maybe, but how can you really know what else im doing...so its all cool. The truth is that im very aware that many out there (possible you and others) know a lot more about this game than I. So my idea is why re-invent the wheel? Learn what you know, practice it, critique it, and modify it for my style of play. But that doesnt mean I shouldn't do everything I can do to "pick your brains" for the knowledge that you have found via experience. I will take what you have learned with time and build on it.
But yes all in all I agree with you that flexiblity is very important and also finding my own way is needed. To all others who have given your ideas and game plans keep it up. As you teach, I learn, and improve upon (and integrate to) my game.
Thanks for the advice....and keep it up.
-Leviathan
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1) res node
2) 3 def or some sensory.
3) res node
4) res node
5) hive
After that it all becomes rather fluid.
If you get less than 3 def nodes your skulks are barly getting an upgrade. If you get 3 defs befor 1 res you're intire build is slowed down significantly.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, going your way will waste a lot of early time.
1) res node
2) res node
3) res node
At this point, you're now getting enough resources to not having to wait for most buildnings. Depending on map and where you start, the third or the fourth node you get will be at the next hive you build. At this point, you build two defs under the place the second hive will spawn in. Then you save for hive and after building hive, build the last defense node. While the hive is going up, you get redemption, which is a great skill for saving your life in 1.04, I've had over ten saves before a death so far.
Resources are the weakest link, the faster you get abundant resources, the faster you win.
1) res node
2) res node
3) res node
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to eyeball it and adapt.
If your skulks can't hold the line, and the marines are pressuring your first hive, you need to abandon the rt building and put down some DCs. Preferably near the hive, so the hive (and the skulks) can recover from the shock successive marine rushes.
3 RTs and no hive won't buy you much.
That said, if your skulks are keeping the marines in check, they can suffer without carapace for a bit. They'll whine and complain and type in all caps "DO YOU KNOW HOW TO GORGE?" But once they get fades (while the marines still have no weapon/armor upgrades), they'll quiet down.
Well, no they won't. Then they'll start complaining about MCs.
If you can't grab the gorge slot, go skulk and cover the gorge. Odds are, he's going to be in an empty hive, far from reinforcements. By the time he calls for help, he's probably a lost cause. Along the way, you can watch someone else's strategy. And if the gorge gets nuked, well, you're right next to an empty hive. Find a dark corner and evolve.
Once you have 2 hives and 3 and 3 chambers, it's miller time. Build a few WOLs. Help with the rushes. Get more RT. Web stuff. Whatever. It's a harsh thing to say, but for the first 5-7 minutes, the entire game rests on your shoulders. Once that's over, it's up to your team to use the advantage you've given them to finish the game.
Note that I'm not saying 2 hives = instant alien win. I'm saying once the second hive is up and the appropriate towers are built, the gorge is no longer the focus of the alien game. He's now just another player.
Depending on the intelligence of the pubbers I play with, I can usualy get 3-4 RT's up pretty fast followed by 3 def and a hive.
In the first few min of the game, it depends on how fast the gorg builds up and how effectivly the skuls are. If the gorg builds 2 res towers but the skuls only kill 1 rine and are simply dieing off not stopping the rines from building at all, it can realy hamper the gorgs building.
NOW that was sum fun stuff.. i was throwing out webs and babblers left and right.. then cloaked soon after.. crazy commotion.. the marines start snooping from their base and would literally walk right past me, then id move when coast is clear. add a forward chamber cluster.. chaos.. Cloaking is a trip.. play around with it if you have time!
anyhow i play on big 24+ PUBLIC servers.. skill of players is a crap-shoot.. ergo..
if you got real good skulk defense: rt at new hive, 2nd hive
if you got eh so-so skulk defense: rt at new hive, 2off tower/1 def tower at new hive, 2nd hive
if you got sucky skulks: def chamber first at original hive, rt at new hive, 2 off tower/1 def tower at new, 2nd hive
Q1) why hive so soon? to get that ever important 2nd hive..cuz in public servers marines take hive spots real quick(either 1st or after putting down 1 marine rt)... and aliens rarely take back fortified marine spots on public servers.. if you guys can take fortified spots, the gorge build order can be more flexible
Q2) why rt first? res will increase too slow w/o it.. big dividends if it doesnt die.. worth the risk in putting it down first
Q3) why def chamb first then for the 3rd option? eh you gonna die.. maybe carapace might make a lil difference
-ONE gorge on the team at the start; AFTER 1st rt, the team can afford possibly 2 gorges.. better w/ one tho if streamlining towards 2hives for fades
-Heal any hurt skulk that runs by..
-By all means, dont die.. by having only 1 gorge, your res would be the most important, you are the sole builder, ppl are depending on you to put up the hive/rt/etc.. also to die, wait in the queue of death without gaining res, to move back into position and evolving back to gorge takes time.. this is not acceptable, plus also 13 res maybe low but those 13 res are important at the start
-Dont put too many off chambers and def chambers in one spot(ie greater than 6/3).. seige will take them out.. better to space the chamb clusters out.. if possible in fav seige spots.
If you were a good gorge and by chance have fades evolving, you might want to attack base.. make a >3 def chamb cluster outside base.. far enough that gren chucking marine from base dun hit the cluster, but close enough that fades dont run too far from base and lose their effectivity and pressure put on the marines.
By no means is this the uberguide, but these are some of the basics.. of course when you get used to things, you will develop even more efficient ways to gorge.
-PS: If you are a skulk, maxed out in res, nuthin useful to do with it at the moment, and need another chamber that an unresponsive gorge wont put down. evolve to gorge, put it down yourself and evolve back.
Wastes alot of res but you get what you want, and get what others need probably
=Just trying to help the alien cause..=
A good gorge plays a good "Mom": will move everywhere, will care about hives, and when kids (lerks, skulks, fades, hive) under attack, will be much more vicious than any onos.
For example, I was playing a gorge once. Fades were outside hive getting rid of turrets, etc.
They came back, and I healed them. I tailed one of them out and it looked like they were having trouble. First off, I started webbing the whole f***** area. Second, I didn't have many res, but I risked plunking down two OC's. Next I was healing everyone the whole time.
Too many times I see gorges just build a defense, and who are too preoccupied with building to notice what is going on.
someone: YOU! HEAL ME NOW? HELLO?
gorge keeps building.
someone: AT LEAST GET SOME D CHAMBERS UP.
gorge keeps building.
marine comes by with HMG and blows away fade and gorge.
Supermom? Nah. Supergorge.
For one...don't die.