Hoppy Marines

Bigwig · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">and how they mess up the ambience</div> I've been playing a lot of NS lately, and I've noticed something. Marines hop a lot. Even more than skulks. To me, this is lame, especially in such a mature and complex game as NS.

I want to keep this simple. What do you think is cooler:

A whole squad of marines bravely holding a position and gunning down hordes of incoming skulks

or

A whole squad of marines bouncing around yelling "AHHH! SKULK! GETITOFFME! GETITOFFME!!"

?

NS needs a stamina bar, slowdown, or just <i>anything</i> that will make it so jumping is used only for getting over obstacles and not combat. I don't care what you say about realism, but I think it just ruins the ambience when every time a marine gets in any sort of danger he turns into a rabbit and starts jumps around wildly. Really, can't we find a better way of defending ourselves against aliens? Bouncing around the place is pathetic.

Nemesis_Zero · February 2003

Experience shows that one should <i>never</i> use the word 'lame' in such contexts.

Pege · February 2003

You wouldn't happen to like the 17th century style where soldiers "bravely" march to gunfire and get shot down like bunch of idiots? I mean, if there was a skulk coming towards me, I'd most certainly try to jump out of his way and not just stay there crouched and wait for my head to be ripped off! It's a pity HL animation isn't complex enough so you could have cool "evasions", but instead you have the same old generic upwards jump. I just tend to use my imagination from the HL abstract. Sure, the jumping (or "evasion") might be a bit overly used, but it's really cool in combat every now and then... Especially when you jump over the incoming skulk and then shoot him with the pistol in the back. I sure love those kills!

Savant · February 2003

My thoughts on the hopping? I feel it 'cheapens' the game ala TFC style gameplay. (TFC, where the bunnyhoppers are king, and scouts/medics literally FLY across the map! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )

While I am reticent to comment on the bunnyhopping issue, I do think that combined with the hitbox problems that marines have in the lower body, (IE, you can't kill a marine when you bit at their feet) there should be a fix that either makes it so there is NO problem biting the lower body, or if you can score a lower body hit the marine is prevented from jumping anymore. (makes sense if your legs get chewed to shreds that you can't do much jumping)

One can only hope the proposed bunnyhopping 'fix' that is supposed to be coming down the pipe will lessen this. It's not the bunnyhopping itself that bothers me. I play TFC and see LOADS of bunnyhoppers and have NO problem with it. I just don't want to see 'cheapened gameplay' lessen the NS reputation.

Part of what makes NS such a big draw is the atmosphere, and I do feel that anything that detracts from that atmosphere should be removed from the game if they want people to take NS 'seriously'.

Regards,

Savant

Archzai · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bigwig @ Feb 1 2003, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've been playing a lot of NS lately, and I've noticed something. Marines hop a lot. Even more than skulks. To me, this is lame, especially in such a mature and complex game as NS.

I want to keep this simple. What do you think is cooler:

A whole squad of marines bravely holding a position and gunning down hordes of incoming skulks

or

A whole squad of marines bouncing around yelling "AHHH! SKULK! GETITOFFME! GETITOFFME!!"

?

NS needs a stamina bar, slowdown, or just <i>anything</i> that will make it so jumping is used only for getting over obstacles and not combat. I don't care what you say about realism, but I think it just ruins the ambience when every time a marine gets in any sort of danger he turns into a rabbit and starts jumps around wildly. Really, can't we find a better way of defending ourselves against aliens? Bouncing around the place is pathetic. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
yo seriously dude.. i dun wanna flame

but u dont like jumping go play DOD....

cs is already pretty <span style='color:white'>screwed</span> because of the jumping thing they added to lessen it... sorta killed the game, its WAY too easy for newbies to hit now...

jumping in a way makes NS harder for skulks.. or else it be damn easy jus to jump and bite them to death
marines by jumping are not necessarily mindlessly jumping.. i for one dont.. i tend to side strafe to allow the skulk to jump right by...

PLEASE devs.. DO NOT remove the jumping.. keep it as is... bascialily 1.04 is as fair as it gets right now.. im loving it...

<span style='color:white'>Don't evade the swearfilters.</span>

Zenn · February 2003

Well, Bunny Hoping does tend to ruin the fight model unless its taken into account by the designers.

My suggestion would be to not allow a Marine to shoot while jumping. Do this, and you'll prevent bunny-hoping. Personally I'd rather they fixed the bite model though. Would make me a lot better at killing as a skulk, something I suck at right now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

<span style='color:white'>Don't spam smileys, please.</span>

BlueGhost · February 2003

The whole skill argument for b-hopping has been done to death so many times it hurts my head.

said it befor will probably say it again:

You are not arguing for a game which involves more/less skill you're arguing for a game that REQUIRES YOUR SKILLS.

Let them change the game to how they think it should be and then... adapt.

BlueGhost

Incitatus · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bigwig @ Feb 2 2003, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've been playing a lot of NS lately, and I've noticed something. Marines hop a lot. Even more than skulks. To me, this is lame, especially in such a mature and complex game as NS.

I want to keep this simple. What do you think is cooler:

A whole squad of marines bravely holding a position and gunning down hordes of incoming skulks

or

A whole squad of marines bouncing around yelling "AHHH! SKULK! GETITOFFME! GETITOFFME!!"

?

NS needs a stamina bar, slowdown, or just <i>anything</i> that will make it so jumping is used only for getting over obstacles and not combat. I don't care what you say about realism, but I think it just ruins the ambience when every time a marine gets in any sort of danger he turns into a rabbit and starts jumps around wildly. Really, can't we find a better way of defending ourselves against aliens? Bouncing around the place is pathetic.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yep I agree whole heartedly.

They shouldn't have added to CS because CS had fast gameplay.

But it would certainly be a very nice addition to NS.

"getitoffme getitoffme" AHAHAHA funny <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

ZiGGY · February 2003

it has been my general experience that providing *stamina* or totally nefing jump tends to kill off many of the players and makes the game more dull.

Evil_Timmy · February 2003

A simple solution is to reduce the jump height by 25% for every jump less than one second from the last, but not slow the player down at all. I hate CS's 'you can still jump as high, but you slow down' system, which makes no sense. If you're running and you jump, you'll speed up for a moment then stay the same speed you were before, and any successive jumps will be shorter than the last, because those muscles tire very easily and it's a high-impact motion. So, reduce jump height on multiple successive jumps, but don't reduce the speed, and you've got a fair compromise.

Question · February 2003

Anyone who jumps in firefights SERIOUSLY need to develope l33t str@f1ng sk11z0rs

redeemed_darkness · February 2003

I wonder what it would be like if the speed is reduced from 170% to some thing like 140% to 120% [B] only for the marines [B/] aliens keep their 170% <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Well I guess I can only ponder if that will be a good compromise

TeoH · February 2003

OHNOS TEH JUMP BUTTON WILL DESTROYE TEH EARTH

xioutlawix · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Feb 2 2003, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> OHNOS TEH JUMP BUTTON WILL DESTROYE TEH EARTH  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
At first I misread it, I thought you were saying something along the lines of,

"A jumping onos will destroy the world!"

Personally, I agree with the dev's decision to eliminate bunnyhopping (in terms of being able to run silently all over the map at double your normal speed). I'd also agree with them making it a lil bit easier to hit marines who jump around a lot in a firefight, as it is the hitbox issues make them nigh on impossible to get a foot-bite on...

Smoke_Nova · February 2003

Good suggestion Evil Timmy.

and yeah, I admit that I do jump sometimes when a skulk charges me, but it usually doesn't matter

RandomEngy · February 2003

That sounds like a good idea redeemed, but I think the changes will most likely be:

170% speed cap changed to 100%
Sound plays if you jump while crouching

Also, Flayra knows better than to put in some stupid contrived jump-limiting system like a stamina bar or a CS-style "kludge-mode". Arguments saying to remove jumping because it doesn't look perfect are just silly. Take out jumping and you'll get a temporary increase in atmosphere, which you won't pay any attention to after a few hours, and a fun part of the game permanently removed, which many will miss.

(edit)
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>...at double your normal speed</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's impossible now. Please don't express an opinion about bunnyhopping if you don't know anything about it.

xioutlawix · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Feb 2 2003, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> That's impossible now. Please don't express an opinion about bunnyhopping if you don't know anything about it. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The act of bunnyhopping (not bouncing around in the middle of a firefight) increases your speed above and beyond the norm, even though saying "double" might be a generalization.

Look it up in another post as its been argued to death before you presume to know what others do or do not know. Yes, the issue has been resolved, I was merely stating my agreement with the dev's choices.

Edit - On second thought, I'll make it easy for you, since you're likely to state your opinion without doing any research on the matter again without some help.

<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=19477&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/in...f=1&t=19477&hl=</a>

KillnKenny · February 2003

Why do Marines jump in a fight?

The answer is simple:
Because it allows him to move backwards fast.

The developers slowed the backpedal speed down for a reason. It gives skulks a chance to close onto their prey quickly - and forces a Marine to actually "turn his back" if he wants to run away. The current backwards-jumping tactics (which I use too) are a way bypass this "feature".

My suggestion - make backwards-jumping the same speed as backwards running. Leave rest alone.

ZERG · February 2003

Implement Unreal style evasion and we make everyone happy.

Paranoia2MB · February 2003

1) Get skills
2) Deal with it
3) No need to make Marines any easier to kill.

Good bye

Zel · February 2003

i havent noticed a lot of marines bouncing about madly as yall explain (maybe i dont play on 1337 enough servers)

i only jump when fighting a skulk if i need to get some place, if i want to go sideways quickly, or over a rail or more often than now, if theres chomping noises behind me while running forward, wi will jump forward, do a 180 and land crouching, i feel this gives me the best distance from the enemy and puts me in a smaller position. 90% of situations the skulk will be coming at me in a straight line, and my crouching puts my crosshair on his face, no need to aim downward at all. kapow, 30 bullets and he keels over.

i dont do bunnyhopping, dont much understand it, (unless you guys jsut want to confuse a skulk even more through his teeth weapon model) but i doubt everyone seen hopping about is really inside of the enemy's head like that.

i play covertoral texas, and i'm not that bad, and i don't bunnyhop. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Archzai @ Feb 1 2003, 11:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> cs is already pretty <span style='color:white'>screwed</span> because of the jumping thing they added to lessen it... sorta killed the game, its WAY too easy for newbies to hit now...

 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
This is probably the strongest arguement for REMOVING hopping marines that I've seen, besides the fact that it looks darn stupid.

Can you see Hicks hopping all over the place firing his pulse rifle yelling "You want some of this?!?!".

Draxo · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Feb 6 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Archzai @ Feb 1 2003, 11:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> cs is already pretty <span style='color:white'>screwed</span> because of the jumping thing they added to lessen it... sorta killed the game, its WAY too easy for newbies to hit now...

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This is probably the strongest arguement for REMOVING hopping marines that I've seen, besides the fact that it looks darn stupid.

Can you see Hicks hopping all over the place firing his pulse rifle yelling "You want some of this?!?!". </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

AGREED.

*is laughing at the visualisation that you just described*

HavoK · February 2003

The retarded jumping is one of the reasons that I have almost totally quit playing this mod.

It does make ripping their entrails out a little more satisfying as a skulk though. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

AcKz · February 2003

LOL YOU'RE COOL!!!

RandomEngy · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Feb 2 2003, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Edit - On second thought, I'll make it easy for you, since you're likely to state your opinion without doing any research on the matter again without some help.

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=19477&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...f=1&t=19477&hl=</a>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
ROFL, that's hilarious. You'll find a very long and detailed argument from me on page 11 of that very thread. Now sit down.

Bigwig · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Feb 6 2003, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Can you see Hicks hopping all over the place firing his pulse rifle yelling "You want some of this?!?!".</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Rofl, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Bouncing is perfectly acceptable in a light hearted game like TFC, but NS has a certain mood and ambience to hold up <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>. And no, it's not that I can't "deal" with hoppers, I just think it looks frecking ridiculous. There has to be a better way.

sySTEm1 · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueGhost @ Feb 1 2003, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The whole skill argument for b-hopping has been done to death so many times it hurts my head.

said it befor will probably say it again:

You are not arguing for a game which involves more/less skill you're arguing for a game that REQUIRES YOUR SKILLS.

Let them change the game to how they think it should be and then... adapt.

BlueGhost  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
couldnt agree more bud

Dubbilex · February 2003

Honestly, I don't see the fun in bunnyhopping. people have been saying how they just HATE cstrike now that jumping's nerfed......... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

I say, WTF?!? How is bunnyhopping in ANY WAY fun!?!? Those who complain about its current state in Cstrike should simply be SHOT! Why rely on moronic exploits to make you better. Does it make your <i><b>RANK</b></i> increase quicker?!?

To everyone else, just play the game and hope that there are more like us out there who do not rely on dumb tricks to make ourselves better..... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Play the game like it was meant to be played.........

The_Gunslinger · February 2003

Whatever they do I'll be fine with it. I love NS and I trust the team to do whatever the think is neccesary <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

ogz · February 2003

- A whole squad of marines bouncing around yelling "AHHH! SKULK! GETITOFFME! GETITOFFME!!"

that certainly fits into the marine fear scheme of ns <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

becos of ur sentence, i now think that marines jumping up and down should be part of the game...

but jumping up and down and bunny hopping are two seperate issues, with bunnyhopping being a bit more unbalancing to the game.

Hoppy Marines

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