Does Anyone Else Thing This Game Is Unbalanced

fkdj3nkda3as3234asdzdflp · January 2003

sorry, i just wasted 2 hours of my life playing a game we had absolutely NO chance of winning. i needed to yell at somebody. and then people in here are saying the MARINES are too strong? give me an f-ing break!

aegix · January 2003

If you play more, you'll begin to understand just how much more deadly an organised marine team can be. You say aliens have won when they get 2 hives? Well the opposite is true for marines once they secure two hives.

Also... why did you write your post in an image instead of typing it out?

KingKong · January 2003

thats the good thing about 1.4 they nerfed the fades a little and made marines a tiny bit stronger.

PS: why do people compare rescource costs? due to the way the game is played aliens can usually get more res each than marines as they can hold more res turrets at once, while marines can buy expensive stuff for a few people....

fkdj3nkda3as3234asdzdflp · January 2003

man, i would have hated to see the fades before. its a lot harder to hold down two hives and your spawn than it is to build a second hive and have 3 people go fade and a lerk umbra them.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>played aliens can usually get more res each than marines as they can hold more res turrets at once, while marines can buy expensive stuff for a few people</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

exactly--you can have an alien go fade and die instantly and the team doesn't loose a thing. if an ha/hmg marine dies, its a big waste and hurts the team. and you can have an entire team of aliens go fade with only a few res towers, while equipping a large team of marines with heavy armor and a decent weapon requires a ridiculous amount of resources.

about the img, good question--the reason being that some bug in the forum code kept popping up and i accidentally clicked "yes" when it asked me if i wanted to debug. if you've got visual studio, that closes your internet explorer and pops up a useless project in visual interdev. anyway, while that was loading, i realized i'd have to type all that again, and thinking quickly i hit print screen.

porp · January 2003

If a fade dies, that's 54 resources gone. How is that ANY different from a HA/HMG dying?

Asraniel · January 2003

It IS balanced, at least with the 1.04... i win more and more with the marines, its just a question of organisation and strategie

Paq · January 2003

After second hive aliens are invincible? Do you have any idea how fast level 3 hmg can kill a fade at close range? In two seconds, maybe less. And if there is about 3-4 marine group with HA/HMG/GL and they know what they are doing then they are almost unstoppable...

vvInter · January 2003

2 hives are not invincible...

get 2 skilled jetpackers / hmg , comm that drops health and ammo, and the 2 hives are gone in 5 minutes or less. This tactic is overused in clanmatches... and very hard to counter

Play some more and your vision might get changed.

X_z_0_r · January 2003

Yes, the marines are weaker in that respect that they require a good commander to win. They need more strategy and teamwork to gain victory, however in terms of ballance each team can be equally and more powerful than the other at different stages of upgrades. For example, fully upgraded HMG/HA marine group can totally waste any fades. Even if you have 2 hives, if the marines have full upgrades you'll be able to do little about their advancement and they will take both hives down in little time. Vice versa, if they have no upgrades but you have fade, then you'll waste them <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> It's just a matter of upgrading weapon levels and armor levels and equipping marines with better equipment.

Lucid · January 2003

I can see you are new. If you take a look around the forums you will see that 40% swear the aliens are too powerful, 40% swear the marines are too powerful. 9% just don't care and 1% think the game is balanced. So you do the rest of the math.

(this should be made into an auto-reply that will reply to any post that has the word "balance" in it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> )

Jon_Himself · January 2003

You just played for TWO hours. How can you say its unbalanced? It's mostly likely your marine team sucked and acted NS as another deathmatch game.

I've been comming since 1.01 and I've barely lost a game.

KMGor · January 2003

A heavy armor marine with jetpack huh? That's new.

T_RAT · January 2003

Hmm still easier said then done jetpacking into a hive a killing it.
U just hope the gorge hasnt built in places where u cant fly over structures.
Depends on so many different things. Thats what i love about NS.

Liku · January 2003

Yeah, I think this game is unbalanced, but I like it that way, it gives it more of a Al|ens, need teamwork, feel.

Carbon14 · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Widowmaker -CFH- @ Jan 29 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I can see you are new. If you take a look around the forums you will see that 40% swear the aliens are too powerful, 40% swear the marines are too powerful. 9% just don't care and 1% think the game is balanced. So you do the rest of the math.

(this should be made into an auto-reply that will reply to any post that has the word "balance" in it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> )  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The rest of the math? Where is the other ten percent? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

2of12B0RG · January 2003

lol

UIOP · January 2003

I don't get it.

Why does people complain about balance? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>
Just play the other team, the team that "always" wins...

After you have played like that for at least 4-5 games, you won't think the game is unbalanced any more,
And if you do.. Then just stick with the better team. You will have fun killing the team that "can't" defend themselves.

Gargamel · January 2003

The Game is maybe not perfectly, but it is balanced.
You need different playing style depending on the race you choose.
MArines always need more teamwork, while ALiens could go harass their enemy even alone.
But if MArines know how to work together, Aliens must also teamwork or they re asskicked.
You will find this out, when you play games with cooperative fellas.

All is about resource in the end. You could have an Alien Team with 2 Hives and noone being able to Fade, cause res is comming too slow.
If the Marine team can secure 3 or 4 res, you can get all MArines in HA/HW and sticking together, welding as needed, and you have a mobile Devastation PLattform! Comm then only needs give a MedPAck every 5 min, so the 5% that HA doesnt absorb gets healed.
NEVER underestimate the human race <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I also thought the game was unballanced cause i kept loosing the whole time. With 1.04 and fades costing 54 res, things are getting more ballanced, even the Phase GAte change is good. Aliens now have better chances to take out a remote base.

vin · February 2003

yea.. i kinda think the game is unbalanced towards the aliens now...

for one thing.. i feel dat the skulks have changed a bit.. theyre much stronger now for sum reason.. i can feel it wen i move wit tha skulk too.. moves slightly faster..
i dunno if dats true or not but i see now in 1.04 skulks are rushing marines base like mad and wasting em.. where as in 1.03 if skulks rushed, they would get wasted most of tha time..

and also did the aliens resource system change? cause they seem to be able to get resources faster now.. again i dunno if its true or not.. jus feels dat way..

last of all.. out of all the games ive played in v1.04 90% of the time aliens win.. dats no joke
ive only won i think 3 or 2 times as marine eva since 1.04 came out.. and it seems everyone wants to go aliens now..

some of u might say i aint playin it right or sum ****.. and dat may be true cuz im an aussie player and our tactics may be diff to everyone elses.. so anyone wanna gimmie sum tips on how ta win? im all ears

KMGor · February 2003

Skulks are not upgraded at all. Skulk rushes rarely work against a team of marines that don't ALL build at once and know how to shoot well.

The game still leans more towards marines. It's just that aliens are hurt less by lesser players then marines are, generally speaking.

Paratrooper · February 2003

Well, personally i think the thing that is most unbalanced about the game is the fact that our hive gets destroyed just by one guy with a jetpack plus a HMG. The guy would just fly ontop of the hive and blow it up, and most of the time it is too hard to kill him.... or i am not skilled enough with a skulk or whatever to kill him.... Its really cheap. They should do something about that because one marine killing a hive is kind of messed up unless your Ripley from Aliens....

eaglec · February 2003

well sometimes one marines is all that gets to the hive alive! If it's me I'll sure as hell find the safest closest place to the hive where I can let rip with the hmg - and if thats on top then so be it. Skulks and Lerks can easily take the marine down under most situations and it may be kinda cheap but then so are spores and umbra and skulk rushing - from a certain point of view....

I think the balance currently leans towards the aliens and I think this is GREAT. I didn't like it at first but I now see more players wanting to go aliens "because marines always loose" normally its the n00bs and whiners that the dessert first so this is a big bonus. The aliens strength now means they dont have to work so closely all the way through the game and if they **** about and have some fun they get away with it. This also means a few n00bs can be safely ignored and newbies can be properly trained. The marines have to concentrate and work as a team or they get slaughtered and the phase rush tactic of the marines has been pretty much squashed now so it's all very much hands on. So the aliens are more fun/carefree to play but the marines are more rewarding than they were and its a far better feeling now to win as a marine because you'll have had to really work for it.

I see ono's, and top tier marines upgrades far more often now which is a good sign.

lagger · February 2003

from reading the 1st post, i was to lazy to read everybody else's so keep in mind that if i repeat anything i'm sorry. 1st of all you marines cant have jetpacks and ha as stated in the 1st post above. 2nd of all heavy armor marines to me seem to be a complete waist unless they have 2 hives, although the marine tech system is so much faster i dont see why you wouldnt have jp/hmg before it. If you are having problems winning as marines just try this strat a few times WITH an orginized team. : take 1-2 res nodes, DONT SECURE ANY HIVES, just sit back and relax on your nodes, tech up arms lab and protolab with 1-2 weapon upgrades and 1-2 armor upgrades, give out 3jp's/hmg's and send them out together. This can be done before they get 2 hives + 3 hmg/jping marines should kill a hive by just flying around while the skulks jump up and down failing to bite them while they spam at the hive. 3-150 shot blasts will kill their hive if they lack 4+ dc's. This is assuming you didnt get tf's/turrets which r a waist! If your having trouble holding main, then just place 2-4 sets of mines on the ground BY YOUR BUILDINGS and you'll see how effective this is.

vin · February 2003

when u build ur 1-2 res points, do u secure them with tf and sentries? cuz whenever i leave a res tower unguarded, skulks jus come and chomp it up..

and if i ask marines to guard it.. the aliens still rush em and chomp em up

i dunno.. maybe ill make a few demos or sumthin wen i learn how to and give u peeps a look at wat us marines are doin wrong...

i will try that tactic with teching up instead of getting hives tho..

lagger · February 2003

You dont need tf's if you have your marines sit next to them, but if your marines cannot take out skulks be advised to put 3 mines around the rsr on the ground which will take 1-4 skulks out if your marines nick them enough

vin · February 2003

ahh man.. madd ****.. dat teching up tactic works!!
i never go for hives now.. jus get two or three res and tech up
fukin madd!!!

sorri if i neva knew this cuz in 1.03 and previous versions.. it waz all about tha siege and securing hives.. and now in 1.04 its about teching up

i hope 1.1 gets a lil of both <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Draxo · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (vin @ Feb 1 2003, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> yea.. i kinda think the game is unbalanced towards the aliens now...
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
and all the aliens, myself included, think the MARINES are too powerful.

The grass is always greener in the other field, its a fact of life. I KNOW that marines think we're too powerful, aliens think they're too powerful. The fact is we're fairly balanced according to styles of play, with a few minor exceptions and bugs (jetpack cost, bust fireing LMG's, etc)

These are being worked on, the game is balanced as much as it can be. The fact is however, the better players will show you just how greatly a gamers skill comes into play.

I get pwned often by players hwo're better than me, i accept the fact i'm not the best out there, heck i'm average imo, skill is a huge factor

Talesin · February 2003

The teams are logistically balanced. It's the tactics that aren't. At the moment, JP/HMG rushers are the endgame, and can quite easily be picked up before the Aliens have a chance to get anywhere near second-Hive... which contains all the goodies needed to effectively fight them (webbing most notably).

The sides are balanced, but the speed of teching needs a good hard tweak, so both sides have a chance with competent players on both sides, forgiving luck.

Rokiyo · February 2003

So am I the only marine player that thinks I've got it too easy?

You CAN have jp and ha at the same time, by turning sv_cheats on, then using giveupgrade 38 and giveupgrade 39. Bang! jp and ha at the same time. It makes you walk really fast and you dont make any footstep, and your screen ALWAYS jars when u land...

Anyway, if u want to win as marines there are several things you can do:
1) Learn to aim. - It may sound like sarcasm, but learning to take out 2-3 skulks with a lmg clip is an probably the most important thing you can do for your commander (if you are a team player). When you can reliably defend a location. If you are near a phase gate that leads to home base, or you ARE at home base defending, only stock enough ammo for your next clip. That keeps you moving quickly enough to circle strafe your quicker enemies.

2) Don't bother with tfacs and turrets at home. Ever. - Once you have reliable aimers in your team, the res is much better spent on equiping marines for the assault. Don't forget that fades cost around the same as a ha/hmg marine, and lerks cost the same as a hmg/shotty combo. THe only reason aliens pump out more fades and lerks than the marines do of their counter parts is that the aliens spend much less res on building stuff.

3) Res ****. - Give one guy a jetpack and give him no other task but to claim and defend the open res nodes on the map. Don't bother defending them, just build the node and move on. You will be spending a lot on nodes, but all it takes is roughly a minute for the nodes to pay their own way (and about half that on a 10 man team)

4) Pick your moments. - You need to have a group of marines at the front lines at all times, just to lure the majority of the aliens there. Even if they dont plan on getting anywhere, make it look like they are more than a diversion. Meanwhile, send out your jetbos (jetpack rambos) to do "teh laem hive kill!!11!" with the hmg. Most of the aliens will not give up their current fight for a hive to go defend another, so the jetbo will have a good chance of completing his hit and run.

5) Use your head when taking out offense chambers. - Use your jetpack to hover directly above OCs and blast it. When there is enough room and only one OC is left, pull out your knife and circle strafe it. If you dont have a jp, and FF is ON, keep your distance from the towers and just crouch where they can see you. The towers will kill themselves and you wont take any damage.

p4Samwise · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fkdj3nkda3as3234asdzdflp @ Jan 28 2003, 04:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> about the img, good question--the reason being that some bug in the forum code kept popping up and i accidentally clicked "yes" when it asked me if i wanted to debug. if you've got visual studio, that closes your internet explorer and pops up a useless project in visual interdev. anyway, while that was loading, i realized i'd have to type all that again, and thinking quickly i hit print screen.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'm still hung up on this image thing. You couldn't just Ctrl-A Ctrl-C to copy the text? Or, God forbid, type it again? You're not even using capital letters, it can't be taking you that long. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

[p4]Samwise
Occupation: tech support.
Pet peeve: customers who take screenshots of error messages rather than freakin TYPE IT OUT LIKE A BIG BOY.

Stop looking at me!

SoulSkorpion · February 2003

(reply to initial post)

I suggest you play a few rounds as Kharaa. Actually, a few more days (weeks, even better) isn't a bad idea. The game is most definately balanced. One-sided games only happen when one team isn't up to scratch, either because they don't know what they're doing strategically or because not enough of them are competent fighters

Does Anyone Else Thing This Game Is Unbalanced

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