Resource System Imbalanced
Eidal
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9229Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9229Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Yes another balance post!</div> I played on a server last night for a few hours. I was the 20th player. I originally joined the marine team as they were dying, and on the new game I took the comm chair. Realizing my marines were struggling to even hold the base I decided against attempting a phase rush, seeing as how locking down both hives the time required to fortify would have been beyond them.
Instead, I just sent marines out to build resources nozzles and attempt to hold them. Recognizing how ludicrous the resource system works for marines on high player games, I was able to quickly tech to HMG Jetpack and equip enough marines to execute the alien hive. My squad of 2-3 JP/HMG's killed the enemy hive before the 2nd had started, so it was a game over. I want to point out that during this whole time the aliens has nearly free-reign in the hives, and I doubt that it can be attributed to a bad gorge considering a few of my friends were playing on the enemy team.
The rematch went much the same, and I decided to try the tech rush again to see if it would work twice -- and we were able to do it even faster. I think that just spamming nozzles all over the map and recycling them as needed works so efficiently in a 20 player game that no commander has an excuse not to.
The 3rd game I played I switched to alien and played gorge, and instructed the team on how to fight the tech rush (correctly assuming the marines would emulate what I had done). Sadly, we had no chance -- the HMG's came out before I could get the fades up, and my OC/DC walls were no match for the cease-less waves of marines. And there weren't many newbies on my team -- many friends I had played with before.
The 4th game my team (aliens) won, and I think its because instead of 20 players playing, there were only 12. We didn't really come close to losing, either. The marines must have tried the same tech rush strategy and choked when they realized they had no way to stop the hive from going up.
I know this type of stuff has been posted before -- but I think this is the reason Flayra nerfed marines in the recent patch. In my usual experiance playing on 10-16 player servers, however, I see aliens winning 75 percent of the games. Most marines, even with a good commaner, can only win if they properly phase rush and secure both hives. I rarely (if ever) see a team, even working well together, manage to last long enough to get the JP/HMG combination together to sneak-kill hives.
And the game is so unforgiving of marine mistakes earlygame -- a commander dropping a TF instead of an observatory or arms lab in base can end the game on the spot due to insufficient resources to do anything worthwhile. (but because of the NS system, the game will continue for 15 minutes wasting everyones time).
On a server with under 10 people its almost guaranteed the aliens will win. The marine team has a maximum of 4 marines, and leaving one to guard the base is so limiting that practically every choice the commander can make has its slew of gambles. On servers like that -- my only choice is to capture nozzles as fast a possible and hope that the marines can control nozzles long enough for the JP/HMG combo to be ready, which can most certainly be a game-ender even on a 5 player marine team.
Anyway -- any comments?
Eidal
(Steve Hayes)
Instead, I just sent marines out to build resources nozzles and attempt to hold them. Recognizing how ludicrous the resource system works for marines on high player games, I was able to quickly tech to HMG Jetpack and equip enough marines to execute the alien hive. My squad of 2-3 JP/HMG's killed the enemy hive before the 2nd had started, so it was a game over. I want to point out that during this whole time the aliens has nearly free-reign in the hives, and I doubt that it can be attributed to a bad gorge considering a few of my friends were playing on the enemy team.
The rematch went much the same, and I decided to try the tech rush again to see if it would work twice -- and we were able to do it even faster. I think that just spamming nozzles all over the map and recycling them as needed works so efficiently in a 20 player game that no commander has an excuse not to.
The 3rd game I played I switched to alien and played gorge, and instructed the team on how to fight the tech rush (correctly assuming the marines would emulate what I had done). Sadly, we had no chance -- the HMG's came out before I could get the fades up, and my OC/DC walls were no match for the cease-less waves of marines. And there weren't many newbies on my team -- many friends I had played with before.
The 4th game my team (aliens) won, and I think its because instead of 20 players playing, there were only 12. We didn't really come close to losing, either. The marines must have tried the same tech rush strategy and choked when they realized they had no way to stop the hive from going up.
I know this type of stuff has been posted before -- but I think this is the reason Flayra nerfed marines in the recent patch. In my usual experiance playing on 10-16 player servers, however, I see aliens winning 75 percent of the games. Most marines, even with a good commaner, can only win if they properly phase rush and secure both hives. I rarely (if ever) see a team, even working well together, manage to last long enough to get the JP/HMG combination together to sneak-kill hives.
And the game is so unforgiving of marine mistakes earlygame -- a commander dropping a TF instead of an observatory or arms lab in base can end the game on the spot due to insufficient resources to do anything worthwhile. (but because of the NS system, the game will continue for 15 minutes wasting everyones time).
On a server with under 10 people its almost guaranteed the aliens will win. The marine team has a maximum of 4 marines, and leaving one to guard the base is so limiting that practically every choice the commander can make has its slew of gambles. On servers like that -- my only choice is to capture nozzles as fast a possible and hope that the marines can control nozzles long enough for the JP/HMG combo to be ready, which can most certainly be a game-ender even on a 5 player marine team.
Anyway -- any comments?
Eidal
(Steve Hayes)
Comments
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its a very effective way of COMMing
I'm wondering if someone could prove that capping a nozzle for (x seconds) and than recycling it when a skulk finds it will net you 23+ resources. I imagine in a 20 player game, the marines have to hold a nozzle for under 30 seconds before its already paid for itself (counting the recycle).
Edit: I read that thread that Greypaws linked, but I disagree on one thing. In a small player game, if the comm is focusing on a phase rush and slowly establishing TF in both hives (viable tactic even in 1.04)... he simply cannot afford to drop a nozzle in a random location and hope that A) the marine will live to build it and B) a skulk wont see it in seconds. I'm only starting to get used to this idea in large player games, because its then that the formula takes off. In smaller games -- I don't see random nozzle spamming as being efficient because unless you have some really stellar rambos, you're going to have to fight fades before you get HMG/JP.
And Grey, before you go wandering off along the map for the purpose of planting nozzles, (in my opinion) its a good idea to ask the comm first what his intention is. My BIGGEST pet peeve is marines who say ("Comm I found a nozzle!"). If I wanted the **** nozzle I would have waypointed it in the first place.
case and point buddy. I dont totally disagree with you, but you need to be more considarate when it comes to planting RTs.
So you want your marines to do only what you ask for and no more? Why not then command the bots around... they sure as hell wont do anything unless you order it.
I believe that a lot of what makes a comm good is the players he is commanding... if they are crap, not even an awesome commander can achieve, but if the players are good, they can turn a mediocre comm into a good one.
Oh, and non-objectively... what were you thinking about not dropping an RT?... res is everything on the marine side.
So you want your marines to do only what you ask for and no more? Why not then command the bots around... they sure as hell wont do anything unless you order it.
I believe that a lot of what makes a comm good is the players he is commanding... if they are crap, not even an awesome commander can achieve, but if the players are good, they can turn a mediocre comm into a good one.
Oh, and non-objectively... what were you thinking about not dropping an RT?... res is everything on the marine side. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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The problem with the JP rush is really the JP itself. Once its refuel gets nerfed properly, it won't be quite so invulnerable. Personally, I'd prefer requiring the marine to be on the ground for a few seconds before it starts to refuel... that will make it hard for a JP to jump out of the way of any skulks once the JP is out of fuel.