Max_rate And Etc.

masterswordman · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Yes this belongs in servers, no people t</div> I'm interested in starting my own NS server (Actually more like 3), and I have a few ? about the bandwith.

I'm interested in getting a 1MB/1MB sustained colocation (Bit expensive but worth it).

Now I've read that you could put up maxrates to 8500, does this mean that every person would take only 8.5 KB/s? So a 1MB/1MB could support around 100 people, and still not lag?, in terms of bandwith.

\\I got a good 4U, with duel xeons at 2.2 GHZ each with 1GB ram, and one oversized HD.

So heres my math.

max rate 8500 = 8.5 KB/S per person

8.5 * 100 = 850 KB/S

BUT HERE THE MATH ACORDING TO ARTOFWARCENTRAL!?

We have a rate limit of 8,000 bytes per connection on public servers and 10,000 bytes on password protected servers. This means that a public 16 player server for example has over 1mbps of available average bandwidth available to it (16 * 8000 = 128,000 bytes * 8 = 1,024,000 bits).

It confuses me so if u can plz explain. TY

StandingCow · January 2003

Your problem comes in with slower connections...a 56ker can really lag a server...as well is anyone that doesnt ping well.

I never tried to start my own server (I had server comapnys run mine) so if I were you I would just try like a 14 player server and see if its stable, and raise it till you notice it gets a little unstable or laggy....

masterswordman · January 2003

Keep in mind It's a $300 a month connection, and as far as I've calculated my self its okay. But someone explain that weird math PLZ, I don't want to waste $300 to "TEST"

cracker_jackmac · January 2003

I smell a spammed topic

masterswordman · January 2003

1 MB, per second, and you like insane thats like full powered lan speeds, and the server would just crash under those circumstances.

How much does your NS server transfer every month? Bandwith used?

death1 · January 2003

1mbit ~ 125k/sec

20 players ~ 40k/sec (up and down)

Hope that helps.

-d$

masterswordman · January 2003

So tell me is 1MB each way sustained 1 mega bit 125 kb/s, or 1000 KB/s, I really kinda want to know, and I pray that ewan didn't go out of bussiness. its 1mb each way sustained for $150 a month.

cracker_jackmac · January 2003

T1= 1.544Mbps (bits per second)

take that, number divide by 8 (1544000/8=193000)

193000B/s (bytes per second)

193000/1024=188.4765 (we divide by 1024 to get kilobytes) KB/s means kilo <b>bytes</b> per second.

188.48KB/s (that would be your DL speed if looking at in on IE, ftp, or something)

masterswordman · January 2003

So IF I have 1 mbit then I have 125 KB/s each way. So that can cover approx 3 20 person servers if each uses 40 KB/s, tell me what should my max_rate be for that, and would that be playable.

Brutus · January 2003

Your problem is not going to be the bandwidth. Your problem will be the CPU usage. I think a dual will let you run 2 decent 20 player servers, but you will lag. It sounds to me like you are thinking about one of the rackshack duals. My server, and I think Golex's server run on rackshack servers, and speaking for myself, connection speed has never been a problem.

If you are getting a dual from Rackshack talk to Rock at <a href='http://www.rock-hideout.net' target='_blank'>http://www.rock-hideout.net</a> , because I know he has one. He doesn't run NS, but he can help you with general server info.

masterswordman · January 2003

My server is past sufficient and it isn't from rackshack, its one I customized my self, I have put it up at huge lan parties. I know it can easily run 3 32 person servers, with lan pings of about 26. And it was full, just giving you a conseption of nerd ville, lol. But I heard that NS is demanding, and I think I will follow your recomendations.

Also is there a program that can simulate connections to my machine. That would be the best thing in the world. I could test my max rates my support ETC. If anybody can write, or knows where I can get such a program please tell me.

Eternal_Bliss · January 2003

MB=megabyte
Mb=megabit

masterswordman · January 2003

Yes thank you the *other* post here about this explained it, maybe an admin could delete the other one, cause it's confusing.

NS FORUMS LEARN SOMETHING

Nupi · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (death$ @ Jan 26 2003, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>20 players ~ 40k/sec (up and down)

Hope that helps.

-d$</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Arr matey! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Doesnt it require more bandwith than that?. I've seen pictures when people host 24 players and they are uploading over 1 MB/sec ?. Hmm..or maybe it just this new version..

Jeb · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StandingCow @ Jan 26 2003, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Your problem comes in with slower connections...a 56ker can really lag a server...as well is anyone that doesnt ping well.

I never tried to start my own server (I had server comapnys run mine) so if I were you I would just try like a 14 player server and see if its stable, and raise it till you notice it gets a little unstable or laggy....  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
what are you playing? That was true years ago, but isn't a factor now.

The net code in most, if not all, online games has long been corrected to deal with high pingers. The only thing that a high ping should do is cause the person to lag, which makes them hard to hit, but also hard for them to hit people.

eaglec · January 2003

There is a webbed thread that talks about sv_maxrate and has all the necessery details. Basically you need to take your bandwidth (in bits per second (ie 1,000,000 (round this figure down to be safe)) divide by eight and then by the number of players and then divide the result by the number of players so you want to support 96 players on 1million bits per second line
1,000,000 /8 = 125000 (we've seen this figure before here haven't we)
125,000 /96 = 1302

I run 16 players on sv_maxrate 2000 and this is in reality 'workable' but at the same time 'taking the ****'. As the number of players in the game increases so does the required ammount of data for the game to remain playable. I would suggest you don't drop maxrate below 5000 for a 32 plater game and 6-8000 would be better - so

125000 / rate = players

so its up to you

sv_maxrate ... players
8000 .................15
7000 .................17
6000 .................20
5000 .................25
4000 .................31
3500 .................35
2500 .................50

It looks like the best use for your line might be 2 16 player servers with sv_maxrate 3500, or you could take the **** with your bandwidth like I do and drop sv_maxrate to 2500 and get 3 16 player server on it. At the end of the day its up to you. Me I like big server so I'd advise the 30 player server with sv_maxrate 4000 (if it works, trial and error)

Zdrone · January 2003

I have 4, 1.1mb SDSL lines. I run 2, 18 person servers on a single box, on a single line without problems.

eaglec · January 2003

sorry I dont understand what you are saying? You run two 18 player servers from a single pc no probelem - yes fair enough
you have 4 x 1.1mb sdsl lines? yep, understood
and you run 2x18 playesr from one of these lines?

That gives you 3800 bytes per player? It should be just about enough as long as it's all configured carefully.

Do you set sv_maxrate?
and what's the server address so we can judge for ourselves how well it plays?
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

mathyou · February 2003

1 byte = 8 bits

I am unclear as to whether a rate of 8500 is 8500 bits or bytes. I would assume bytes. That would mean you 1 Mb/s connection is 125 KB/s. Which means you could support about 14 people. But some people might use less bandwidth. Also keep in mind that a 56ker shouldn't lag anything. You are only setting the maxrate. If someone sets her/his rate lower, that's how much data the server will send to that individual. You could start setting the minrate, but that is only useful on LAN, IMO.

Seriously, I am not excited by the rate suggestions you guys are giving. Since my connection can handle rates around 9000, I really like to be able to use 9000. I think anything below 5500 gets ugly.

masterswordman · February 2003

It does, any body know anything about the netgamer?, I mean those colocation prices are too cheap, but if you have servers there tell me.

death1 · February 2003

I'm using the default NS server.cfg, so whatever the rate is set at in there, thats mine

20 players will use between 40 and 60k/sec in bandwitch (320kbps ~ 480kbps); mostly, its near the 40k/sec mark with some spikes into the 50s.

<a href='http://tempest.sc/dan/ns20/network.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://tempest.sc/dan/ns20/network1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'></a>

1.1mbps line ~ 138k/sec, so it'd handle 36 player slots with no problem

-d$

eaglec · February 2003

The default sv_maxrate is 9999, but it doesn't need to be that high. It's best to set it to a level you are sure you can sustain and remember that each additional player also increases the bandwidth requirement to each other play as well as the chunk they require themselves.

Setting sv_maxrate properly can not only reduce choke it can also increase ping and significantly reduce cpu overhead.

Death$ you don't say which server you admin or what bandwidth you have so we can tell for ourselves whether it runs well?

starvey · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (death$ @ Feb 4 2003, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'm using the default NS server.cfg, so whatever the rate is set at in there, thats mine

20 players will use between 40 and 60k/sec in bandwitch (320kbps ~ 480kbps); mostly, its near the 40k/sec mark with some spikes into the 50s.

<a href='http://tempest.sc/dan/ns20/network.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://tempest.sc/dan/ns20/network1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'></a>

1.1mbps line ~ 138k/sec, so it'd handle 36 player slots with no problem

-d$  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That's a beautiful MRTG (Or is it cricket?) graph. I think your post ended up being the most informative of the thread, since provides a nice realistic answer..

Now one more question.. What's your total monthly traffic being pushed look like? How many Gigs total, or In/Out?
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Zdrone · February 2003

Sorry, work has kept me from responding to anything for a while:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>you have 4 x 1.1mb sdsl lines? yep, understood
and you run 2x18 playesr from one of these lines?
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes, exactly. Both 18 player servers are on a single box.

I don't set the sv_maxrate (its at default values).
I've often thought of doing it but I've been so busy over the last 2 months I've only had about an hour to play . I don't like making changes and leaving it up to the players to comment on. I would rather test it myself. Perhaps next week (wife leaving for a month) I might play around with the sv_maxrate.

H2O-4 12.102.7.98 (18 person)
H2O-5 12.102.7.99 (18 person)
H2O-7 12.101.247.165 (30 person)

<a href='http://www.h2ocs.com/mrtg/' target='_blank'>http://www.h2ocs.com/mrtg/</a>
The blank spots were due to an outage (serverdoc problems).

masterswordman · February 2003

Hey a newbies question can bring thousands of expert opinions.

HE, I POSTED IT, HEHE

death1 · February 2003

40k/sec up/down 24/7 about 7 total gigs of transfer a day ((40k*60s*60m*24h)*2)

that's an RRDTool graph, similar to MRTG

as for 'how well it runs' we're just talking about network usage... that 40k/sec is using about 0.5% of the port the server is connected to (100mbps)

glad my posts help

-d$

Max_rate And Etc.

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