Ns V1.04 - Before And After
chubbysteve
Join Date: 2002-10-14 Member: 1496Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-10-14 Member: 1496Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Here are my thoughts</div> After reading the news page (but not yet playing) here are my thoughts on NS version 1.04 (News post text in <b><span style='color:red'>bold red</span></b>).
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed exploit that allowed aliens to look like marines and fire marine weaponry</span></b>
Good. This was a very annoying and confusing bug.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Changed max machine gun ammo to 250 (used to be 300, though it would only display 250) </span></b>
Well, frankly I think thats fine for the lmg but the hmg should be able to go up to 300, as thats 3 full clips (one in gun).
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various commander mode exploits </span></b>
Good, at least I think so. Some detail would be nice here but I suppose I shall see.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Moved auto-concession on unfair teams into server variable (mp_autoconcede: if set to greater then 0, then if teams are ever different by this many players, that smaller team loses immediately) </span></b>
Sounds usful. No other comment.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Dead players can now talk to their teammates in both casual and tourny mode (needed to prevent team from getting an advantage by using external voice program in CAL) </span></b>
Sounds usful. No other comment.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed problem where ammo could be picked up while holding mines </span></b>
Sure. Never experienced that myself.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode </span></b>
Having not played tourney mode, I wouldn't know about this.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed visual problem where advanced armory had weird build circle </span></b>
Haven't experienced this so far.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced radius of acid rocket splash from 200 to 165 </span></b>
This is bad. Weakening the fades because they are damn good just doesn't help. Players have to learn to cope with fades, rather than whine untill weaker ones are made.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Alien respawn time reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds </span></b>
Yes, the alien respawn with one hive seems to take a while. Good change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced shotgun cost from 20 to 16 </span></b>
Hmm... Quite debatable. I think this will be a good change, allowing a change of weapon at an earlier stage.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced welder damage from 10 to 7 </span></b>
No, this is a bad change. The welder from an aliens point of view is just strong enough that you have to run away from the welder weilding marine. It may loose that threat now.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Armory can now give out ammo while upgrading to advanced armory </span></b>
I think this is a bad move. There was no problem here as I see it.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased cost of infantry portal from 15 to 22 </span></b>
No. There was no problem with this price either.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased cost of phase gate from 20 to 25 </span></b>
This change is bad too. The price should have stayed, or changed to 22 at the most.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000 </span></b>
Bad move. Looking at those numbers 3500 to 3000 would have been better.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased scan cost from 1 to 3 </span></b>
Well, if I am correct seige changes means that a com will have to scan hives repetetively to get the seige shooting. This will cost too much and basically rule out sieges.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased grenade launcher damage back to 200 (back to v1.0 value) </span></b>
I like the sound of this. Is the clip back to 6?
<b><span style='color:red'>- Umbra now blocks 5 out of 6 bullets instead of 6 out of 7 </span></b>
Weakening an ability. Umbra was fine before, now it is just weaker. Listening to the whiners will make everything weaker and less effective.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Arms lab reduced from 50 to 45 points </span></b>
Don't quite see why this change needed to be made.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced siege cannon range from 1250 to 1100 </span></b>
A fair reduction.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Siege cannon targets now must be sighted to be hit (in view of friendly player or scanned by commander) </span></b>
This is just another change that makes something less effective.
<b><span style='color:red'>- The green circle that appears when the siege cannon is selected by the commander is using the old range, but this will be fixed in v1.1. </span></b>
Okay. Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- This is the value siege range was for most of our internal playtesting (hence the bast and hera issues that suddenly arrived with v1.0) </span></b>
Gotcha.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Initial hive now spawns with full health instead of having to heal up to full health on spawn </span></b>
Good idea. Five or six marines can presumably still rush the first hive and take it down, but it will be more of a challenge.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where advanced turret factories don't have full health </span></b>
Is this the same as advanced factories that need building once the upgrade is done? If not it is an okay change. What is that advanced factory building about anyway?
<b><span style='color:red'>- The advanced armory now has 2400 health instead of 1500 (same as regular armory, this is a fixed bug, not a balance change) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where tournament mode caused some damage to be reduced more then it should be (acid rocket vs. any alien structures) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where hive would sometimes play wound sound/animation when it got hit but didn't take damage </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Removed lingering "organic" damage type for acid rocket and spore cloud (fixes bug where acid rocket wasn't doing damage properly to organic structures) </span></b>
Don't quite get this one. If the gaseous damage goes quicker from acid rocket and spore then I think it is a bad change, weakening the weapons effectiveness.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Aliens lose all their points when they leave the team, and the team doesn't get them either (this will be revisited in v1.1) </span></b>
I think if some one leaves the server then the res of leaving alien should goto the team. If they only go into the ready room and back, it should be recognised, and the res shouldn't be shared.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed non-visible motion sensor and proximity "blips" (linux only) </span></b>
Good. I hate it when motion tracking doesn't work.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves </span></b>
Less effective, therefore Bad change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Removed gibbing of corpses (off by default, but some servers had enabled it). This means death animations always play, so no more disappearing models when using high-powered weapons. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Alien health circles seen by gorge now take armor into account (so gorge knows when player is fully healed) </span></b>
Good change. Most good gorges got that anyway.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Morphing resets your health again (preserves percentage of armor when evolving carapace too) </span></b>
Good change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed logging bug where model name was reported instead of team name for say and and say_team </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- When hive is constructed, have it check to see if technology should be supported automatically (exploit for getting extra upgrades after a hive is killed and rebuilt) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Observers can hear other observers and players on the screen, and can chat with each other </span></b>
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various problems with holding mines while building or using command station </span></b>
Finally. Thank you.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Changed cloaking so it deactivates when a player moves faster then a certain speed, fixing an exploit. Moving very slowly should still allow an alien to remain cloaked. </span></b>
Okay.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "highdamage" cheat for testing (sv_cheats must be 1, all damage is x100 vs. buildings, x10 vs. players) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "slowresearch" cheat for testing (sv_cheats must be 1, research takes full time instead of normal 2 seconds when cheats are on) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Phase gates now must be +used instead of just touched (less frustrating when trying to attack them or fight nearby) </span></b>
No. This change just ruins the fun of falling in the phase.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Don't play "select your troops, and give them orders" commander hint if you have no other players on your team </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Grenades and mines are now enhanced by arms lab damage upgrades </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed exploit where multiple upgrades from the same category could be purchased by jamming hotkeys (thanks localhost) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where trying to exploit alien abilities could crash the server </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug server name wasn't displayed on scoreboard </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced "intermission" time after game ends before mp_timelimit is checked. Disabled mp_timelimit map-switching for tournament mode. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Phase gates now only play their effects (particles, sound, light) when there another active phase gate (so a player can look at a phase gate and know if he can go through it) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed end-game server crash for large games </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed rounding errors for level 3 arms lab upgrades for marine weaponry (thanks Kitsune and Comprox) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where babbler and xenocide damage wasn't being applied properly (babbler damage was halved, xenocide wasn't doing blast damage) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where laser-style mines sometimes wouldn't go off when touching the base </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Turret factory cost reduced from 25 to 20 </span></b>
Why? Is this because it's a more usless piece of equpiment now seiges will be less effective?
<b><span style='color:red'>- Siege turret cost reduced from 25 to 20 </span></b>
Oh yes. So it is.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Lerk spike damage increased from 16 to 18 (big lerk changes coming in v1.1, this is a hold-over) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed problem where mines sometimes blow up on their own for no apparent reason after they are placed </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "detectall" cheat for testing motion-tracking and marine blips </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- All entities can hurt themselves (allows 1-hive alien team to battle siege, figure it out...) </span></b>
Does this mean a close seige can hurt itself? Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Allow siege cannons to see targets themselves (no spotter needed if target is in sight of the cannon) </span></b>
Right. So the seige, designer for attacking things round a corner now doesn't quite do that (automatically).
<b><span style='color:red'>- Tweaked armories to refill your primary ammo supply before your clip </span></b>
Changing weapon was fine for me.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fade cost increased from 44 to 54 </span></b>
No. Now there will be less fades which equals less effective attacks on marine positions. Bad change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Movement chambers now teleport to aliens to a hive that's under attack, or the farthest active hive if none are under attack. </span></b>
Good change. Clever.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Carapace now slowly gives out extra armor points with upgrade level, instead of giving it out all at once. For example, a skulk with 0/1/2/3 carapaces has armor of 10/16/22/30. All other properties of carapace remain the same. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Regeneration upgrade now heals approximately twice as fast </span></b>
Thats very fast. Possibly a bad change. Will have to see in game.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Redemption increased in effectiveness slightly </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Hive now heals nearby players faster in effort to allow aliens better chance to hold off early marine rush (20 points per second instead of 8) </span></b>
Thats a very fast heal especially for a skulk (which is the situation you are considering). Will have to see this in game.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added ability for Guides to send hint tooltips to individual players. More information on the Guide program is coming. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Cloaking changed so higher levels make it faster to cloak instead of harder to see. All levels now make the alien equally invisible (not quite invisible, but very close) </span></b>
I think this is effectively removing cloaking. The idea is you're invisible not slightly visible. No one likes cloaking before level 3 because it's not good enough to hide.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various bugs and exploits which enabled players to use weapons while commanding </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where players trying to execute alien abilities manually crashed the server </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where hive death animation kept looping after hive was dead </span></b>
Good.
Post note: After reading through it looks like Good means I approve, Fine means 'What ever floats your boat' and Bad or other derogative comments are self explanatory. I have usually included explantions to my dis-likes.
I hope this helps and I will come back after I've tested v1.04 and go through it again.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed exploit that allowed aliens to look like marines and fire marine weaponry</span></b>
Good. This was a very annoying and confusing bug.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Changed max machine gun ammo to 250 (used to be 300, though it would only display 250) </span></b>
Well, frankly I think thats fine for the lmg but the hmg should be able to go up to 300, as thats 3 full clips (one in gun).
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various commander mode exploits </span></b>
Good, at least I think so. Some detail would be nice here but I suppose I shall see.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Moved auto-concession on unfair teams into server variable (mp_autoconcede: if set to greater then 0, then if teams are ever different by this many players, that smaller team loses immediately) </span></b>
Sounds usful. No other comment.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Dead players can now talk to their teammates in both casual and tourny mode (needed to prevent team from getting an advantage by using external voice program in CAL) </span></b>
Sounds usful. No other comment.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed problem where ammo could be picked up while holding mines </span></b>
Sure. Never experienced that myself.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Aliens without any hives no longer take damage when the server is in tournament mode </span></b>
Having not played tourney mode, I wouldn't know about this.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed visual problem where advanced armory had weird build circle </span></b>
Haven't experienced this so far.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced radius of acid rocket splash from 200 to 165 </span></b>
This is bad. Weakening the fades because they are damn good just doesn't help. Players have to learn to cope with fades, rather than whine untill weaker ones are made.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Alien respawn time reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds </span></b>
Yes, the alien respawn with one hive seems to take a while. Good change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced shotgun cost from 20 to 16 </span></b>
Hmm... Quite debatable. I think this will be a good change, allowing a change of weapon at an earlier stage.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced welder damage from 10 to 7 </span></b>
No, this is a bad change. The welder from an aliens point of view is just strong enough that you have to run away from the welder weilding marine. It may loose that threat now.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Armory can now give out ammo while upgrading to advanced armory </span></b>
I think this is a bad move. There was no problem here as I see it.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased cost of infantry portal from 15 to 22 </span></b>
No. There was no problem with this price either.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased cost of phase gate from 20 to 25 </span></b>
This change is bad too. The price should have stayed, or changed to 22 at the most.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Decreased health of phase gate from 3500 to 2000 </span></b>
Bad move. Looking at those numbers 3500 to 3000 would have been better.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased scan cost from 1 to 3 </span></b>
Well, if I am correct seige changes means that a com will have to scan hives repetetively to get the seige shooting. This will cost too much and basically rule out sieges.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Increased grenade launcher damage back to 200 (back to v1.0 value) </span></b>
I like the sound of this. Is the clip back to 6?
<b><span style='color:red'>- Umbra now blocks 5 out of 6 bullets instead of 6 out of 7 </span></b>
Weakening an ability. Umbra was fine before, now it is just weaker. Listening to the whiners will make everything weaker and less effective.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Arms lab reduced from 50 to 45 points </span></b>
Don't quite see why this change needed to be made.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced siege cannon range from 1250 to 1100 </span></b>
A fair reduction.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Siege cannon targets now must be sighted to be hit (in view of friendly player or scanned by commander) </span></b>
This is just another change that makes something less effective.
<b><span style='color:red'>- The green circle that appears when the siege cannon is selected by the commander is using the old range, but this will be fixed in v1.1. </span></b>
Okay. Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- This is the value siege range was for most of our internal playtesting (hence the bast and hera issues that suddenly arrived with v1.0) </span></b>
Gotcha.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Initial hive now spawns with full health instead of having to heal up to full health on spawn </span></b>
Good idea. Five or six marines can presumably still rush the first hive and take it down, but it will be more of a challenge.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where advanced turret factories don't have full health </span></b>
Is this the same as advanced factories that need building once the upgrade is done? If not it is an okay change. What is that advanced factory building about anyway?
<b><span style='color:red'>- The advanced armory now has 2400 health instead of 1500 (same as regular armory, this is a fixed bug, not a balance change) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where tournament mode caused some damage to be reduced more then it should be (acid rocket vs. any alien structures) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where hive would sometimes play wound sound/animation when it got hit but didn't take damage </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Removed lingering "organic" damage type for acid rocket and spore cloud (fixes bug where acid rocket wasn't doing damage properly to organic structures) </span></b>
Don't quite get this one. If the gaseous damage goes quicker from acid rocket and spore then I think it is a bad change, weakening the weapons effectiveness.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Aliens lose all their points when they leave the team, and the team doesn't get them either (this will be revisited in v1.1) </span></b>
I think if some one leaves the server then the res of leaving alien should goto the team. If they only go into the ready room and back, it should be recognised, and the res shouldn't be shared.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed non-visible motion sensor and proximity "blips" (linux only) </span></b>
Good. I hate it when motion tracking doesn't work.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves </span></b>
Less effective, therefore Bad change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Removed gibbing of corpses (off by default, but some servers had enabled it). This means death animations always play, so no more disappearing models when using high-powered weapons. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Alien health circles seen by gorge now take armor into account (so gorge knows when player is fully healed) </span></b>
Good change. Most good gorges got that anyway.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Morphing resets your health again (preserves percentage of armor when evolving carapace too) </span></b>
Good change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed logging bug where model name was reported instead of team name for say and and say_team </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- When hive is constructed, have it check to see if technology should be supported automatically (exploit for getting extra upgrades after a hive is killed and rebuilt) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Observers can hear other observers and players on the screen, and can chat with each other </span></b>
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various problems with holding mines while building or using command station </span></b>
Finally. Thank you.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Changed cloaking so it deactivates when a player moves faster then a certain speed, fixing an exploit. Moving very slowly should still allow an alien to remain cloaked. </span></b>
Okay.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "highdamage" cheat for testing (sv_cheats must be 1, all damage is x100 vs. buildings, x10 vs. players) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "slowresearch" cheat for testing (sv_cheats must be 1, research takes full time instead of normal 2 seconds when cheats are on) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Phase gates now must be +used instead of just touched (less frustrating when trying to attack them or fight nearby) </span></b>
No. This change just ruins the fun of falling in the phase.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Don't play "select your troops, and give them orders" commander hint if you have no other players on your team </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Grenades and mines are now enhanced by arms lab damage upgrades </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed exploit where multiple upgrades from the same category could be purchased by jamming hotkeys (thanks localhost) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where trying to exploit alien abilities could crash the server </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug server name wasn't displayed on scoreboard </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Reduced "intermission" time after game ends before mp_timelimit is checked. Disabled mp_timelimit map-switching for tournament mode. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Phase gates now only play their effects (particles, sound, light) when there another active phase gate (so a player can look at a phase gate and know if he can go through it) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed end-game server crash for large games </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed rounding errors for level 3 arms lab upgrades for marine weaponry (thanks Kitsune and Comprox) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where babbler and xenocide damage wasn't being applied properly (babbler damage was halved, xenocide wasn't doing blast damage) </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where laser-style mines sometimes wouldn't go off when touching the base </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Turret factory cost reduced from 25 to 20 </span></b>
Why? Is this because it's a more usless piece of equpiment now seiges will be less effective?
<b><span style='color:red'>- Siege turret cost reduced from 25 to 20 </span></b>
Oh yes. So it is.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Lerk spike damage increased from 16 to 18 (big lerk changes coming in v1.1, this is a hold-over) </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed problem where mines sometimes blow up on their own for no apparent reason after they are placed </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added "detectall" cheat for testing motion-tracking and marine blips </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- All entities can hurt themselves (allows 1-hive alien team to battle siege, figure it out...) </span></b>
Does this mean a close seige can hurt itself? Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Allow siege cannons to see targets themselves (no spotter needed if target is in sight of the cannon) </span></b>
Right. So the seige, designer for attacking things round a corner now doesn't quite do that (automatically).
<b><span style='color:red'>- Tweaked armories to refill your primary ammo supply before your clip </span></b>
Changing weapon was fine for me.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fade cost increased from 44 to 54 </span></b>
No. Now there will be less fades which equals less effective attacks on marine positions. Bad change.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Movement chambers now teleport to aliens to a hive that's under attack, or the farthest active hive if none are under attack. </span></b>
Good change. Clever.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Carapace now slowly gives out extra armor points with upgrade level, instead of giving it out all at once. For example, a skulk with 0/1/2/3 carapaces has armor of 10/16/22/30. All other properties of carapace remain the same. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Regeneration upgrade now heals approximately twice as fast </span></b>
Thats very fast. Possibly a bad change. Will have to see in game.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Redemption increased in effectiveness slightly </span></b>
Good.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Hive now heals nearby players faster in effort to allow aliens better chance to hold off early marine rush (20 points per second instead of 8) </span></b>
Thats a very fast heal especially for a skulk (which is the situation you are considering). Will have to see this in game.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Added ability for Guides to send hint tooltips to individual players. More information on the Guide program is coming. </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Cloaking changed so higher levels make it faster to cloak instead of harder to see. All levels now make the alien equally invisible (not quite invisible, but very close) </span></b>
I think this is effectively removing cloaking. The idea is you're invisible not slightly visible. No one likes cloaking before level 3 because it's not good enough to hide.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed various bugs and exploits which enabled players to use weapons while commanding </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where players trying to execute alien abilities manually crashed the server </span></b>
Fine.
<b><span style='color:red'>- Fixed bug where hive death animation kept looping after hive was dead </span></b>
Good.
Post note: After reading through it looks like Good means I approve, Fine means 'What ever floats your boat' and Bad or other derogative comments are self explanatory. I have usually included explantions to my dis-likes.
I hope this helps and I will come back after I've tested v1.04 and go through it again.
Comments
thats all I really have to say about any 1.04 thread
From what I've seen from beta 1.00 the devs are trying to change NS from a Balanced High to a Balanced Low game. For example, in the begging, once the Aliens got Fade, if the Marines didn't then its basically over. Now with a little Fade nerfing, they are still effective, but not the ONLY unit needed to win a game. They now need some support from Lerks, Skulks, other Fades and even Gorges.
Same thing with the Seige. Earlier, once the Marines got a Seige up, is was over for the Alien Hive it was placed next to and any future buildings. Now with the Seige nerf, it is also no longer the only building necessary to win the Hive, it has to be constantly monitored by Marines/Commander and defended.
So from what I see they are merely changing the games balanced, not necessarily inbalancing the game, just making the play style different.
but why? we need to start our bitching early :-p
as for the "having to sight for seiges" how about shutup? in a few maps several well placed seiges wipe out aliens, period, (think engine room) at least now seiging takes some sort of effort, a seige doesn't mean instant death to everything within its range, ect.
Changing Fade up to 54 is an awful idea, it means longer when fades die, unless your going to give aliens mad resources, this means, if fades lose an early attack on a marine res they need, the aliens could be completely crippled, where as the marines can die and come back out there no problem...especially with phase gates...
You've just destroyed cloaking, a lot of people didn't use it as it was, but now no one will, because now peopel can see us. Means I can't use cloaking practically anywhere on hera, and means people WILL hack to make cloaking useless, because now it draws us so we can be seen, it'll be just like a wallhack, changing your opengl to make things completely aplha'd...awful change, the first change to cloaking was fine, this one is not... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Siege change is fine, they were too powerful, I mean, it's not like you can't shoot around the corner, as a rine I can just nudge around the corner a bit and see the towers fine, and they still can't shoot me, so it's not too hard to spot...just gives the aliens a bit more of a chance because it won't siege the hive first since the OCs are between me and it...unless u have res up the wazoo which rines usually do...
I agree with the HMG having 300 bullets, you guys should change it to that, it's silly to only carry a partial clip, it would never happen...
So...you upped the nade damage, so it crushes OCs like mad...AND it gets damage upgrades?! Now the aliens are done for if they're not crushing the rines already when they nades...I'd like to see some drawn out fights in the game, but it's not bloody likely like this.... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Welder damage reduced?! Now gorges don't really have to run from a welder wielding marine...that's just silly...now ANYTHING can take down the marine welding the CC....
Umbra was fine as it was, it was quite possible to kill things in umbra as it was....
Upping IP cost hurts b/c it leaves marines more crippled at the beginning...
Upping the cost of the PG is also bad, it was just hard enough to get them up and have the marines moving around...
You should probably fix the damage icons from O2 to something else for the gorge and OCs, and make the water do O2 damage instead of water damage, but I guess that's probably something that we'll need in the CL patch...
I don't think you should've reduced the siege cost, and I still think the siege blast radius should be reduced...
Motion tracking working is great, but it kind of makes cloaking basically useless for the aliens unless their in a big area, since when the guy comes around the corner the blip goes away...cloaking at level 3 should make the blip disappear shortly after cloaking, rather than staying on you when your stationary, and cloaking level 3 should make it not lock on so easily, like disappear and reappear sometimes...
And in response to other posts, I thought in the beginning NS had the idea that at any time, the tide of war could turn, meaning you have to have High Balance...and powering down the alien weapons just means if the marines get their tech just a bit faster, than aliens really are going to be screwed over...
thats all I really have to say about any 1.04 thread<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree, some of the comments were biased; i was like "wtf? gotta make a post"
[I]- Defense chambers no longer heal themselves
Less effective, therefore Bad change.
- Reduced radius of acid rocket splash from 200 to 165
This is bad. Weakening the fades because they are damn good just doesn't help. Players have to learn to cope with fades, rather than whine untill weaker ones are made.
[I]
Ak.
i played a game on hastezone 1.04 final last night. best game ever, it was really long, they had 2 hives, but we finally managed to take one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> great game.
flayra, good work!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->chubby, i love how you're just the ultimate deemer over what is good and bad. i suggest you go play some games before opening your mouth.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, so I'm going through the listed changes and saying what I think might be wrong with them. After about a couple days (solid) playing I'll come back and tell you what I think then (note before and after topic title).
Scanning costing 3 just means the marines should be rewarded for sieging a hive from closer proximity, or from somewhere where a marine can see the hive, or get to it, or get a guy to jetpack into it and hide. Sieging from behind a 20 foot thick wall and a 2 minute run away is kinda cheese. Marines have plenty of things to help them out (fades cost 54, acid rocket reduced, etc) that they should no longer have to cheese from miles away through huge walls. This makes the game a lot more interesting and more interactive. More battles, more players involved in doing something other than hiding behind walls of turrets, etc. This is a good thing.
Generally, making EVERYTHING less effective just leads to longer games, but also generally helps out the slower team. In this instance, prolonging battles gives the poor commander a chance to respond to all the requests. When marines have two hives, heavy armor, etc. and they are trying to finish off a last hive, often it takes longer than necessary because the comm has the entire team screaming at him, not to mention he has to keep an eye out on all those expansions. Also consider the upcoming change of sieges damaging themselves, so gorges can rush, drop towers near sieges (think viaduct!) and aliens can take back hives. This will me a MESS for marines to manage if they sit around and hold two hives for too long (allowing the alien res pool to skyrocket, making that tactic viable). That's a great change, making alien comebacks possible.
Big thumbs up on 1.04 from me.
*edit* As for the other nerfs, many of them are definately reasonable. A lot of it is toning down things which were GAME OVER to a mere LEVEL UP status. IE the welder, this is a TOOL, sure it does damage but it's not supposed to out-damage the machine gun. Siege line of sight: again getting a siege cannon up for the marines within range of the hive isn't supposed to = oh well game over dead hive. (What was the quote "It tones down the former I KILL ALL aspect for a milder I DESTROY SPECIFIC TARGETS WITH EXTREME FORCE) Umbra nerf, again, 2 hive ability that was a game ender, 2 hive stuff is supposed to be pretty powerful but not unbeatable.
As you admitted: You hadn't even played the new build.
I have been playing in 1.04:
The increase of marine structure costs was to prevent phase rushing, although it won't balance out clan play yet as some clans, such as syn or egc would scoff at having to use a phase gate on a marine rush. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades were weakened to reduce the threat of them being one man armies although this comes at an awkward time for some public servers when the marine tech rush is becoming popular and fades are needed ASAP. Expect bitching about this subject. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Another bitchy subject I predict(ed): Cloaking "nerf". Actually, playing around on a 1.04 server on a test map I built up to third have and tried out cloaking. You seriously have to strain your eyes in a well lit hallway to see anything, and I'd still account to actually even finding a fade right in front of you sheer luck.
Yet seriously: Go play. Have fun. Save the opinions and thoughts for at least a weak, Flayra's put a month into this patch.
I don't see how people are being encouraged to melee using fades. Acid rocket splash has been reduced, yes...but Carapace and Fade cost has also been nerfed. If anything, it encourages a fade to NOT put itself into danger by getting up close and personal. As for AR splash range, I have yet to see it make THAT big of a difference in turning people off to use it as their primary weapon.
I think the AR could have been made into a weapon similar to the acid rocket where a building takes considerably more damage than a player would. This would have retained the Fade's ability to take down outposts while limiting its use as a long-distance fighter (which I'm assuming is the point here).
But anyways, I don't think 1.04 is a bad update by anymeans, and I'm looking forward to some fun games on it. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Overall potency adjustment has not been all that big. Both sides lost some, both sides gained some. I'd say the bug fixxes were the biggest adjustments involved - thanks to the armor fix, Fades are just a bit more killable. Siege cannon isn't really that much weaker, requirement of LOS requires active cooperation by the marines, but otherwise it remains as terrorizing of a weapon as ever.
Overall, I'd say if 1.04 was one step back, it was five steps forward. Say what you will, but few can deny that the gameplay has improved.