<!--QuoteBegin--mojojojo+Jan 23 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mojojojo @ Jan 23 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find this strange: in some of other thread, one of the PTs mentioned that they had tried having sensory chamber shoot out parasites at marines in range, but it was removed because all the marines ended up constantly parasited and on hive sight. Then motion tracking goes and puts every alien on marines hud, no matter what they do (unless they stand still), when aliens rely far more on stealth than the marines do.
I think motion tracking need to be nerfed, not because the marines are too powerful at the moment, but simply because motion tracking is just far too powerful. Especially at the early stage it comes into play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines are way too powerful right now, fyi <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>paradigmm said on another forum</i>: <b>How about you can build any number of any structures you want, but each hive counts as an upgrade level? This means that with only one hive, a skulk could have level 1 cloak, silence, and carapace. It would make up for the disadvantage aliens have at the beginning, while not overpowering them with a high-level carapace. I think I got this from Kieran. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well whomever's idea it is, it's a damn good one. That is a fantastic way to allow use of all three chambers while still minimizing the level of upgrades the aliens actually receive from them.
Easy enough. The irrefutable reason not to remove motion tracking is because it's part of the game. Which, incidentally, is the same irrefutable reason not to remove parasites, hivesight, blink, umbra, phase gates, armories, Gorges, the commander, turrets, movement chambers, pistols, elevators, flight, xenocide, grenades, hives, arms labs, webs, mines, Onos, LMGs, primal screams, prototype labs, swipe, bite, Fades, weapon upgrades, acid rockets, heavy armor, Lerks, jetpacks, spore clouds, acid spit, shotguns, armor upgrades, babblers, Skulks, HMGs, healing spray, bile bomb, paralyze, turret factories, charge, command chairs, leap, infantry portals, spikes, defense chambers, siege cannons, offense chambers, resource towers, observatories, welders, and sensory chambers. Asking for someone to provide irrefutable proof not to remove a part of a game is asinine. Give an irrefutable reason not to remove xenocide. Give an irrefutable reason not to remove shotguns. They're all in there for good reasons, the need for proof is to remove them, not to keep them in.
I have an idea. What if cloaking, even if you are moving, makes you invisable to motion tracking. Unless you are within range of an observitory. Just an idea...
I jump in the com chair in a 3 on 3 build 3 spawns and prepair to rush the aliens 1st hive (only real hope in hell on such a small game).
The server suddenly fills up with people so I re-focus into a two hive lockdown style thing,
one group heads for PS one for viaduct.
The groups arive and both get up phase gates and 3 res nodes extra.
I keep people at each location hidden near the phase gate who can quickly run up and blow any chomping skulks away. I research MT.
Just as the enemy are getting organized (they all suisided mebbi once or twice befor they started trying 'waves' of skulks) MT comes online.
I grab a 4th extra res node.
And then sit back upgrading and watching the mini-map like a hawk, the second any skulks look like they're grouping I send people to the area they're about to attack, the skulks arrive and charge headlong into the majority of my team who: 1) know where the skulks are coming from 2) have had a good 2 - 3 seconds to prepair a nice spread out covering pattern.
Needless to say the skulks die horribly, armour level 1 comes online, advanced armoury comes online JP's come online.
Dish out JP/HMG like candy, tell everyone to ignore the phases and go to WP and kill hive.
ping-ping-ping-ping-ping.
MT just gives coms prepaird to spend time watching the min-map too good an advantage in defending a location.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kitsune+Jan 25 2003, 02:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kitsune @ Jan 25 2003, 02:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Easy enough. The irrefutable reason not to remove motion tracking is because it's part of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, Motion Tracking cheapens the **** out of the game. It removes the aliens' ONLY one-hive advantage over the marines - SURPRISE. You might say FADES and JETPACKS and HMGS cheapen the game, but they can be stopped. Motion Tracking can't. Once it's researched, every marine gets a permanent wallhack; incidentally, the game becomes insanely easy for the marines, and ever more hard for the aliens.
If anything the ALIENS should be the ones with flawless motion tracking. Not the marines.
PS: I propose removal because every suggestion I've seen would either make it a useless gimmick or leave it the exact same way it is now.
EDIT: A corollary to that last edit - I've realized that if phase gates were moved higher up the tech tree, then all of the situations I described in my post wouldn't be completely possible. But, it's doubtable that the devs will ever fix phase gates, much less do anything about motion tracking.
A lot of good suggestions so I just want to highlight the ones I thought were particularly insightful.
1) Sensory chamber given a radius of cloaking that a) squelches alien signatures from showing up on motion tracking b) conceals alien structures from siege fire. This would give gorges a reason to build 2nd hive sensory chambers since it would provide a hard counter to the siege cannon. Then the marines would have to actually storm a hive, if only to kill the sensory chamber, much in the fashion that aliens are expected to rush the turret factory.
2) Remove map-wide motion tracking and implement it instead as a limited radius tied to the individual observation post. This provides aliens with the means to counter the advantage MT confers by destroying the observatory, thus leveling the playing field for an alien team confined to one hive. If a commander wants map-wide motion tracking he'll have to invest the resources to do so.
Comments
I think motion tracking need to be nerfed, not because the marines are too powerful at the moment, but simply because motion tracking is just far too powerful. Especially at the early stage it comes into play.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines are way too powerful right now, fyi <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>How about you can build any number of any structures you want, but each hive counts as an upgrade level? This means that with only one hive, a skulk could have level 1 cloak, silence, and carapace. It would make up for the disadvantage aliens have at the beginning, while not overpowering them with a high-level carapace. I think I got this from Kieran. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well whomever's idea it is, it's a damn good one. That is a fantastic way to allow use of all three chambers while still minimizing the level of upgrades the aliens actually receive from them.
Anyway, can <i>anyone</i> give me <b>ONE</b> irrefutable reason to not remove motion tracking outright?
Little game example:
I jump in the com chair in a 3 on 3 build 3 spawns and prepair to rush the aliens 1st hive (only real hope in hell on such a small game).
The server suddenly fills up with people so I re-focus into a two hive lockdown style thing,
one group heads for PS one for viaduct.
The groups arive and both get up phase gates and 3 res nodes extra.
I keep people at each location hidden near the phase gate who can quickly run up and blow any chomping skulks away. I research MT.
Just as the enemy are getting organized (they all suisided mebbi once or twice befor they started trying 'waves' of skulks) MT comes online.
I grab a 4th extra res node.
And then sit back upgrading and watching the mini-map like a hawk, the second any skulks look like they're grouping I send people to the area they're about to attack, the skulks arrive and charge headlong into the majority of my team who:
1) know where the skulks are coming from
2) have had a good 2 - 3 seconds to prepair a nice spread out covering pattern.
Needless to say the skulks die horribly, armour level 1 comes online, advanced armoury comes online JP's come online.
Dish out JP/HMG like candy, tell everyone to ignore the phases and go to WP and kill hive.
ping-ping-ping-ping-ping.
MT just gives coms prepaird to spend time watching the min-map too good an advantage in defending a location.
BlueGhost
The thing is, Motion Tracking cheapens the **** out of the game. It removes the aliens' ONLY one-hive advantage over the marines - SURPRISE. You might say FADES and JETPACKS and HMGS cheapen the game, but they can be stopped. Motion Tracking can't. Once it's researched, every marine gets a permanent wallhack; incidentally, the game becomes insanely easy for the marines, and ever more hard for the aliens.
If anything the ALIENS should be the ones with flawless motion tracking. Not the marines.
PS: I propose removal because every suggestion I've seen would either make it a useless gimmick or leave it the exact same way it is now.
EDIT: A corollary to that last edit - I've realized that if phase gates were moved higher up the tech tree, then all of the situations I described in my post wouldn't be completely possible. But, it's doubtable that the devs will ever fix phase gates, much less do anything about motion tracking.
1) Sensory chamber given a radius of cloaking that a) squelches alien signatures from showing up on motion tracking b) conceals alien structures from siege fire. This would give gorges a reason to build 2nd hive sensory chambers since it would provide a hard counter to the siege cannon. Then the marines would have to actually storm a hive, if only to kill the sensory chamber, much in the fashion that aliens are expected to rush the turret factory.
2) Remove map-wide motion tracking and implement it instead as a limited radius tied to the individual observation post. This provides aliens with the means to counter the advantage MT confers by destroying the observatory, thus leveling the playing field for an alien team confined to one hive. If a commander wants map-wide motion tracking he'll have to invest the resources to do so.