I was a little surprised to hear that the motion tracking broke again at one point, but besides that I'm liking what I've seen with these newer versions of Natural Selection.
I didn't think Fades were so much nerfed so much as their price was raised.
There was an adjustment to the way armor worked - not so much damage was simply rolling off due to rounding - and that may be contributing to some people noticing fades are dying faster. I sure didn't notice this, I just noticed there were less Fades after the second hive went up.
I am a little worried that the marine hive rush tactic still seems too effective - it's hard for a gorge with a single RT to bring up enough resources to place a second RT, let alone place some offencive chambers to prevent the marines from doing this. However, we'll cross that bridge in 1.1.
I'm not sure but I think the penalties for a second gorg have been reduced enough that you can use two gorgs after the first res node has been dropped. My team tried it today and it seemed the resources with two gorgs still came in fairly well after dropping that first res node.
In my opinion 1.04i is the most balanced ns I've played yet. I try to play marines and aliens equally when I'm playing the beta server I frequent, so I can really get a feel for both races. And I try to command whenever I can as a marine, and gorg whenever I can as an alien; that way I REALLY get a feel for how a game goes. In other words, I know exactly what went wrong to lose the round, and what went right to win a round. I can tell if it was teamwork, if it was lack of resources, or if I just plain screwed up or the other team was just more skilled.
Version 1.03 strategies just don't work the same as 1.04. You have to adapt. I'm quite happy with the los change in siege, and remember this is coming from someone who commands every time he can. Now you can't just drop turrets/phase/siege in a hive and FORGET ABOUT IT. I mean GOD FORBID you actually check around that hive once in a while to see if aliens are coming up on it, instead of just letting the uber siege do it for you.
If you don't think things are more balanced (remember: not perfect, just more balanced), I want you to come to redphive's 1.04i server and play with me and some of the regulars there. I play as mac-10 in ns, so don't be a stranger <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok that's enough for now for the people who don't read long posts <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In the new patch lerk spikes do 18 dmg with rof of 4 per second. HMG does 18-23 (depending on upgrade lvl) with rof of 12 per second. Do the math, hmg is about 3 times better. Even LMG has higher dmg output per timeframe as the improved lerk spikes. So while marines for 34 rp REALLY get a flying HMG aliens get for 33 rp a flying LMG light.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lerk spikes also have perfect accuracy, making them perfect for sniping standing marines (although hitting moving ones is a bit harder as the spikes don't hit instantly). As far as actually hitting the enemy, spikes are, in my opinion, much better than LMG (and even HMG, the accuracy on which is terrible), although at close range they really can't compete - that's what bite is for.
Just got back from a nice ns_nothing game with a good alien comeback--the marines had moved their base into Viaduct, and power silo had turrets, armory, phasegate...
We had three lerks in the ceiling of powersilo, and growing offense chambers were firing down into their base from all around--because we had the rest to spend from controlling the rest of the map. It was so pretty. Our hive started building even before we cleared them out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*GL too overpowered - when marines realise to use it, it just owns anything whatsoever the aliens can do. 2 clips now decimate the most massive WoL, umbra/fade - fade-spam is not even viable because the grens to sooo much damage. This is especially bad in pubby where savvy teams can just save and pass out 4 GLs and wander through the map firing cosntantly without worrying about FF. Nothing, NOTHING can stand up to this - upgrades make it just embarresing.
Fortunately, most marines don't seem to understand the new power of the GL, and so lot of games have already effectively concluded by the time the GLs make a showing - rare is the comm that GL rushes, or has the team that knows how to abuse it.
* 54 res for the fade is just too steep. It makes a close game where the khaara just manage to get a hive up too hard to pull into their favour. It also means that fades are single-use - If you die as a fade, it is virtually guaranteed that you won't get to be one again before the game is decided - this makes the lmg-suicide-marine-rush-crew tactic too well rewarded IMO. If the cost really needed to be changed, 5 res would have been excessive I feel. But a 25% increase in cost just ends up reducing possible alien tactics.
Apart from these possibly serious (for skilled competition) but generally minor complaints of mine, I find the game is one helluva-lot better than 103. It is refreshing to see they know how to really patch a game.
I love nearly all the changes, though I think 54 is a few RP to high. Don't know the exact value it should be...
"Aliens are still winning the majority of games in 1.04"
They're winning the majority, but marines still have the overall advantage, especially early on. Watch some clan videos of teams that on both sides are working together very well - the marines almost always win. Just the structure of having a comm and how much less effective marines are if they don't follow comm orders means people often think aliens are overpowered.
1. Daemonlaud the Grenade launcher is suposed to be the be all end all of long range weaponry but it sacrifices short range capability for example a gl against a quick moving alien gets one shot because otherwise they are just too close to do damage with the gl
2. Phades price was correctly increased because they can do horrific damage to marines and also allows for an end game because you don't have to worry about phade rushes
3. Do Phades really get toned down that much when I was reading how phades got nerfed it said only their price and acid damage radius got changed
An idea for MT counter is to allow silence to prehapes counter it. However such a link is based appon motion tracking using sound to track the target and we all know the marine's super advanced obseritory uses gravity fluxes to track it, prehape allowing advance hive sight to be change to something that blocks motion tracking? would make sensory more useful. Also if you increased sensory cost to 14 and allowed it to shoot parasites instead of just the touch effect they might be used abit more..
Comments
I didn't think Fades were so much nerfed so much as their price was raised.
There was an adjustment to the way armor worked - not so much damage was simply rolling off due to rounding - and that may be contributing to some people noticing fades are dying faster. I sure didn't notice this, I just noticed there were less Fades after the second hive went up.
I am a little worried that the marine hive rush tactic still seems too effective - it's hard for a gorge with a single RT to bring up enough resources to place a second RT, let alone place some offencive chambers to prevent the marines from doing this. However, we'll cross that bridge in 1.1.
In my opinion 1.04i is the most balanced ns I've played yet. I try to play marines and aliens equally when I'm playing the beta server I frequent, so I can really get a feel for both races. And I try to command whenever I can as a marine, and gorg whenever I can as an alien; that way I REALLY get a feel for how a game goes. In other words, I know exactly what went wrong to lose the round, and what went right to win a round. I can tell if it was teamwork, if it was lack of resources, or if I just plain screwed up or the other team was just more skilled.
Version 1.03 strategies just don't work the same as 1.04. You have to adapt. I'm quite happy with the los change in siege, and remember this is coming from someone who commands every time he can. Now you can't just drop turrets/phase/siege in a hive and FORGET ABOUT IT. I mean GOD FORBID you actually check around that hive once in a while to see if aliens are coming up on it, instead of just letting the uber siege do it for you.
If you don't think things are more balanced (remember: not perfect, just more balanced), I want you to come to redphive's 1.04i server and play with me and some of the regulars there. I play as mac-10 in ns, so don't be a stranger <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok that's enough for now for the people who don't read long posts <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In the new patch lerk spikes do 18 dmg with rof of 4 per second. HMG does 18-23 (depending on upgrade lvl) with rof of 12 per second. Do the math, hmg is about 3 times better. Even LMG has higher dmg output per timeframe as the improved lerk spikes. So while marines for 34 rp REALLY get a flying HMG aliens get for 33 rp a flying LMG light.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk spikes also have perfect accuracy, making them perfect for sniping standing marines (although hitting moving ones is a bit harder as the spikes don't hit instantly). As far as actually hitting the enemy, spikes are, in my opinion, much better than LMG (and even HMG, the accuracy on which is terrible), although at close range they really can't compete - that's what bite is for.
Eater.
We had three lerks in the ceiling of powersilo, and growing offense chambers were firing down into their base from all around--because we had the rest to spend from controlling the rest of the map. It was so pretty. Our hive started building even before we cleared them out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*GL too overpowered - when marines realise to use it, it just owns anything whatsoever the aliens can do. 2 clips now decimate the most massive WoL, umbra/fade - fade-spam is not even viable because the grens to sooo much damage. This is especially bad in pubby where savvy teams can just save and pass out 4 GLs and wander through the map firing cosntantly without worrying about FF. Nothing, NOTHING can stand up to this - upgrades make it just embarresing.
Fortunately, most marines don't seem to understand the new power of the GL, and so lot of games have already effectively concluded by the time the GLs make a showing - rare is the comm that GL rushes, or has the team that knows how to abuse it.
* 54 res for the fade is just too steep. It makes a close game where the khaara just manage to get a hive up too hard to pull into their favour. It also means that fades are single-use - If you die as a fade, it is virtually guaranteed that you won't get to be one again before the game is decided - this makes the lmg-suicide-marine-rush-crew tactic too well rewarded IMO. If the cost really needed to be changed, 5 res would have been excessive I feel. But a 25% increase in cost just ends up reducing possible alien tactics.
Apart from these possibly serious (for skilled competition) but generally minor complaints of mine, I find the game is one helluva-lot better than 103. It is refreshing to see they know how to really patch a game.
"Aliens are still winning the majority of games in 1.04"
They're winning the majority, but marines still have the overall advantage, especially early on. Watch some clan videos of teams that on both sides are working together very well - the marines almost always win. Just the structure of having a comm and how much less effective marines are if they don't follow comm orders means people often think aliens are overpowered.
1. Daemonlaud
the Grenade launcher is suposed to be the be all end all of long range weaponry but it sacrifices short range capability for example a gl against a quick moving alien gets one shot because otherwise they are just too close to do damage with the gl
2. Phades price was correctly increased because they can do horrific damage to marines and also allows for an end game because you don't have to worry about phade rushes
3. Do Phades really get toned down that much when I was reading how phades got nerfed it said only their price and acid damage radius got changed