Lerk Fire

TipTop · January 2003

Quick question, and one I should know the answer to. When spiking as lurk should you aim with reticle, or aim where the spikes 'graphical' land? I spent forever taking down a phase gate with the latter approach and wondered whether to just put the reticle on the target and ignore what the images were telling e (i.e. I was aiming short!)

Ben128 · January 2003

I am almost 100% sure its hitscan(Aim with your crosshairs), and not projectile(Aim with graphics).

I always use my crosshairs.

tseepra · January 2003

As far as I had heard spikes are instant hit so aim with the crosshairs. And the spikes are just tracers...

PATRichc · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tseepra @ Jan 22 2003, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As far as I had heard spikes are instant hit so aim with the crosshairs. And the spikes are just tracers...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As far as I had heard spikes are instant hit so aim with the crosshairs. And the spikes are just tracers...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Oops <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> That would explain a few things...

Talesin · January 2003

Actually, spikes do have a limited range, and do have an arc. All alien ranged weapons (excepting Parasite) are actual entities in the game. Spikes just move pretty fast, and a PG has a good chunk of HP under 1.03.. even 1.04, it takes a good long while to whittle away 'only' 1500 HP with 18dmg/spike.

Paq · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jan 22 2003, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>it takes a good long while to whittle away 'only' 1500 HP with 18dmg/spike.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Phase gate hp is now 3500 and in 1.04 2000? Right... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> And spikes do 16 damage, i think <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Edcrab · January 2003

I thought it was 16?
In either case, the Lerk spike just... doesn't seem to inuitive. Granted it can take down standard marines pretty damn quick and even turrets but versus a stronger structure (particularily in short bursts as you retreat from turret fire) it really can be quite difficult to tell whether or not you hit with all the impact sprites...

zippy · January 2003

gravity affects the spikes i think, coz i always have to look up slightly to hit things.

I don't always rely on my crosshair and look the the graphics of the spurt when you hit something .

zippy

BlueGhost · January 2003

Its hitscan, check the Organized play -> Khara stratagy and do a search on it.

BlueGhost

Ben128 · January 2003

In 1.04, phase gates are weaker, and more expensive, and lerks do 18/spike...not the old 16. And , spikes, I searched the forums....they are hitscan. NOT , I repeat..NOT game entities. The "spikes" you see are just tracers for atmosphere and to help marines get a bead on those pesky base spikers.

Cyborgguineapig · January 2003

So I'm getting at that the lerk spikes are similiar coded like the secondary grenade launcher in the original HL, which is effected by distance and gravity.?

TipTop · January 2003

This explains a lot! So use the cross hairs right? I have honestly spent 1/2 a game trying to take a gate down by correcting for Gravity only to lose patience a fly over it to find it's still got half its 'health'. Now I want to go lerk tonight!

coil · January 2003

Spikes are not hitscan; they have a travel time, and they do arc *slightly*. It's easiest to see if you sit at one end of a long room and fire at the far wall; the spike will impact below your crosshair. They are not meant to be an efficient anti-building weapon; a lerk is much better off moving in for an umbra/bite combo if he wants to do major damage.

That said, IIRC spikes have received a minor boost in 1.04, making them rather more effective (though still nowhere near their bite).

Talesin · January 2003

Mmmmm... vindication on donuts.

And yes, Lerks are better off with Umbra/Bite for taking out a structure quickly... only problem is, sometimes you have to whittle away a minibase with spikes (or even just shoot out the PG and nothing else) to GET a second hive and enable Umbra. On their lonesome, Lerks tend to tinfoil as well as anything else under turret fire. Difference is, Lerks can chip away at a turret from outside the turret's range with spikes, if they're patient and adjust for that arcing trajectory.

TipTop · January 2003

Guys sorry to be a pain, but I am as confused as ever. Which is it :

Use the Crosshair for all ranges (effectively like a pistol - Hitscan) and the graphics dont matter, or

The spikes curve as per the graphics and I need to aim up to adjust for the arc due to gravity.

Which one?<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Ph0enix · January 2003

I must admit to being confuzzed as well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

The forum community at large had 'proved' it was hit scan and i've been playing as such and then up pops Coil, respected PT, and throws a curveball.

Help me Obi-w......no, thats not right <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> Can a Dev finally put this issue to rest ?

Ben128 · January 2003

I think I will take back my apparently not correct statement, and go with coil on this one guys. I am pretty sure that he is correct on this one. I just searched, and almost every topic concering it was saying that it was hitscan. Oops, silly people.

TipTop · January 2003

.. and there's the contradiction. On one hand a very experienced (look at that post count) and respected playtester saying Lerk spikes are not hit scan and therefore you should compensate for gravity; and on the other you have a mob of people (and ben is right that all posts in the strat forums agree on this) all saying it is hitscan. Where do I aim? It's important if you taking out a gate as it present s a small side on profile over distance!

coil · January 2003

-edit-

Yeah, I just checked it out... the tracer has a trajectory, but the spike actually hits where your crosshair is. Weird, and it's definitely a bug; expect it to be fixed soon.

mojojojo · January 2003

Gah, coil says that you can tell the spikes drop because you can see it if you fire at a distant wall, where I always believed the spikes actually had nothing to do with what you hit, which was hit scan....
The only thing I would add would be that if its not hitscan it would probably be worse from a network code point of view (anyone remember the super nail gun in quake?).

Guspaz · January 2003

Coil, just because the tracers are curving downwards in no way proves that the lerk spikes are not hitscan. It just proves that the tracers are affected by gravity.

The curving could be a client-side bug left over from a time when they were NOT hitscan. Or it could be unintentional.

Ph0enix · January 2003

Coil, we know the visible 'projectile' you see has a trajectory. What had been 'proven' was despite this, it was hitscan.

Tests were done over large distances as you mention. With a cursor directly over a marine the spikes appear to hit the floor, but the marine takes damage.

Aim above the marine, so the spikes arc downwards onto the marine, and no damage results.

I didn't perform these tests myself but took it at face value. I think i'm going to have to check it tonight myself, because its bugging me now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

coil · January 2003

Ehh? You're kidding. If that's true, it's a bug. Weird!

TipTop · January 2003

Ahhhhhhhhh .....

If Coil is backing out then Im leaning towards the hitscan approach. Any developer's out there?

Ph0enix · January 2003

I've always found it oddly counter inituitive. If its a bug that'd explain it.

I think it was just accepted as a 'feature', so no-one bothered posting it as an actual bug.

PS. If I test it and it is a projectile/trajectory weapon, a lot of people are dead for making me look like a loony to Coil <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

PPS. Coil agrees! I'm not a loony! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Incitatus · January 2003

AARGH!! Flayra help us out here pls!!

coil · January 2003

It hits where your crosshair is. Extremely odd. Consider it a bug; I'm off to report it. (: Thanks for straightening *me* out, y'all. ^^

mojojojo · January 2003

Arrgghh! Now we've gone and done it - have to wait longer for the next patch <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Just out of interest, does this have anything on the netcode, now things have come along way from Quake? As I understand it, the spikes have to be kept as an "accurate" representation, whereas if they were just tracers they don't have to be accurately followed - like the alien blood.
Just curious, is all.
Also does anyone care which way round the Lerk fire goes, as long as they know which one it is?

Ph0enix · January 2003

I don't care if it's hitscan or trajectory/projectile, as long as whatever graphically represents it gaves that impression. At the moment, that isn't true.

From what Coil's saying it should be trajectory/projectile anyways.

MMZ_Torak · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Also does anyone care which way round the Lerk fire goes, as long as they know which one it is? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I don't care, I just want to know. And knowing is half the battle! Yooooooooooooooo Joe! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Asraniel · January 2003

hey, second thing.. is there a travel time for the spike or not? Is it a instant hit?

Lerk Fire

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