3 Def Or 2nd Hive?

Heist · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Opinions</div> Rush 2nd Hive or 3 def chambers?

My gorge strat is move to second hive ASAP (always only one gorge). Drop RT then three Def chambers (make sure you get redemption). Then another RT (if available) then save for the hive. By this time the skulks have all capped (make sure you keep them that way... NO LERKING) and your resources are coming quickly. The carapace for the skulks is a lifesaver and allows them to keep the marines out of the second hive area. By the time the hive is up the skulks need only 11 resources to get to 44. Then you have 4 - 5 fades. This almost always works for me. I haven't really seen a marine strategy that can top it (other than luck and/or great marines)

Just wanting some opinions from others.

Pege · January 2003

Well, in my opinion your strategy is very good. Whatever you do, don't just save for second hive without building DC/s first. I wish more people would adapt to that kind of strategy cause it really helps skulks. In servers I play, gorges tend to be lazy with the DCs at the beginning which I think is bad.

rebo · January 2003

Well there are plenty of marine tactics that can stop it. But yes for publics this is probably one of the better tactics, tho personally i build 2 def chambers before i make my first RP.

MMZ_Torak · January 2003

I don't really have a set strategy, it depends on how close the start hive is to the marine spawn. If there is distance between the two, I usually go right to a new hive build a RC, then a DC and an OC or 2 depending on if I have been spotted by the marines. Then I save for the hive. If I am close to marine start (Sewers on caged or Un-named hive on nancy) I build a DC or 2 in the start hive and on oc or 2 depending on marine activity, then make my way to a new hive. It usually helps alot to when the skulks are aware of the game plan. If I have to build some defences at the start I get a few skulks to watch the other hives.

DemonSax · January 2003

Personally I think getting three defense before the 2nd hive is required to beat organized marines. I build one resource, one D, second resource, two more D, and then a third resource depending on the map and starting hive. I find that dropping a res tower first is important to keeping the resource flowing, especially when you have eight or more aliens getting their share. With full carapace a skulk can take twice the abuse (66% damage reduction vs. 33%!) which allows them to live long enough to actually eat some marines. The added resistance can also give them time to actually flee from a fight and heal which is much faster than waiting in the respawn queue. It's a lot easier to defend two hives than it is to take one back from the marines, and carapace can really help your skulks defend that second hive.

For the same reason I try not to build any offense towers before the second hive is started. Just as a commander needs to rely on his marines more than turrets a gorge should be able to rely on his skulks to protect him. Hiding near a pair of D chambers should give the gorge enough time to either kill any attackers or for backup to arrive. And if not, you can always hope that redemption saves you.

tleng · January 2003

I know in 1.03 building 1 DC adds like 50% to the skulk's life. It goes something like 9/14/17/18 (lmg bullet hits before death) So the 3rd DC doesnt add much. However in 1.04 I heard that it's something like 9/12/13/18. Is that true? If thats the case then you should go directly from 1 DC to 3 DCs.

Oh, and I was just wondering.. does motion tracking pick you up when you are in one spot turning around in a circle? How about when you are evolving?

Unknown · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tleng @ Jan 22 2003, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Oh, and I was just wondering.. does motion tracking pick you up when you are in one spot turning around in a circle? How about when you are evolving?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
No, it does not pick you up on motion tracking because you are not really moving.

But anyways, I played gorge since v1.00 and stopped playing gorge since v1.03 came out. (Mostly because there were more people willing to go gorge and actually knew what they were doing.)

My strat was usually this:

#1 Get an RT asap.
#2 Ask what chamber people wanted and built 1 of them. (Back then, most people either said "I don't care" or "Sensory chambers" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'> )
#3 Get another RT.
#4 Build 2 more of the chamber from #2 if asked. If not asked, skip this step.
#5 Save for hive.
#6 Build hive.
#7 Build at least 3 OCs near the hive entrances (not under or in the hive room like most people do.... for what reasons? I have no *bleeping* idea.)
#8 If #4 was skipped, build the other 2 chambers. (If DCs were first, place accordingly. Places NOT to put the DCs are behind the OCs but rather DCs should be put around a corner NEAR the OCs.)
#9 Wait for hive to finish and then build the next 3 upgrade chambers accordingly. (DCs 2nd if SCs first/MCs 2nd if DCs first/DCs 2nd if MCs first.) While building, web the *bleep* out of the place.
#10 blah blah.... whatever is needed...

Also, yea, I have been seeing "lazy" gorges too.... but I don't mind. I've learned to live life to its fullest without carapace, so carapace just keeps me from having to wait in line to respawn. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Niteowl · January 2003

if i got good skulk, i do "RT chicken" (thanx to Tiio aka T-O for the strat). basically put down as many RTs as possible WITHOUT BUILDING ANYTHING ELSE.

5-6 RTs capped (!!)
2nd hive
3 DTs
D up 2nd hive
D up 1st hive
3rd hive.
spam OTs in strategic areas.
when 2nd hive goes up, skulk can get to fades ASAP
3 MTs,
one mt in other hive.

MrPink · January 2003

I usually get 2 RT's, then 3 DC's, then all the nodes in or very close to where the new hive will be, followed by the hive.

Urza · January 2003

usually follow niteowls tactic. when playing against really weak teams i even manage to build 5/6 res/2nd hive/ 7nd res/third hive

and after that we all go onos and finish them off. Or go babble them to death.

ElvenThief · January 2003

Yeah. Nightowl's tactic is quickest to getting yourself a second hive. It works well on public servers, especially if the marines have a n00b comm turreting them up in spawn. It would be nice to see in clan play, but that many res nodes is just negligence and the marines should probably be obliterated early for it.

dumbo · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
5-6 RTs capped (!!)
2nd hive
3 DTs
D up 2nd hive
D up 1st hive
3rd hive.
spam OTs in strategic areas.
when 2nd hive goes up, skulk can get to fades ASAP
3 MTs,
one mt in other hive.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I cannot see any way that a team could possibly win with that build order, unless the kharaa out-classed the marines by a huge margin....

Is this for 1.04? or voogru? or am I missing something?

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

5-6 RT is a waste of time. Hive is best after 2nd RT, and assuming even teams, 3 DCs. Once hive is in, gorge goes for more RTs, and if the marines are starting a successful push, MAYBE throw up a mini wall of lame.

Niteowl · January 2003

naw, it's not any special voogrus mod of a mod or anything.

its' usually around 4 RTs capped actually + 1 in base at start.

and the team i gorge for usually wins say, 90 percent. maybe i'm always against n00b rines? or playing with really great skulks?

the strength of this strat is that you can D up that newly buildnig hive ASAP AND your old hive AND block off choke points.

i also don't play on 32 person servers. 18 server is my limit. so that's probably it.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Niteowl · January 2003

no need to add 'stupid' IMHO. ad hominem attacks do nothing to further your points.

they really are seconds within each other.

i could do 3 dt then hive.

the point is the 4-5 RTs before anything else.

i suppose on a big server (32 person say), with good marines mowing down skulks constantly, then maybe 3 or 2 DT before hive.

could you extrapolate on your argument? if we take out the personal attack, which says nothing to your points. you have just stated an opinion,without any further argument to back it up.

MasterEvilAce · January 2003

I pretty much always do this

Resource towers (as many as i can get).. usually I get 3-4
(I build the last resource node AT the hive i'm going to take)
then I drop a D chamber under the hive (it heals when it gets hurt) and 2 others.. then i put up the hive (when res builds up) then I defend the second hive OC's..

i don't build any D chambers, really, as, the more OC's, the better, for now. I'll build up D chambers to heal the OC's later in the game

after hive is done, MOVEMENT
i use the movement to go back to hive 1, and i build 2 more movement chambers there, and i setup defense at hive 1 (then i usually do D chambers until my team secures another hive, or if i have other places to defend)

Sometimes i'll change it up depending, if some players really want carapace early, i'll build one before any other resource towers.... and if they're REALLY good players, i'll build only 1 at the hive, then i'll setup the second hive, and then more D's as the res flows

Dalai-Lama · January 2003

MasterEvilAce, i apply exactly the same strategy

DaStompa · January 2003

you guys really get that many rec points before saving for a hive? (note: I play in pubs) for the most part, after dropping the second I save and another person goes gorge to continue capping rec's. Anyone run a stopwatch to see exactly how long each of these tactics take?

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Jan 23 2003, 05:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>could you extrapolate on your argument? if we take out the personal attack, which says nothing to your points. you have just stated an opinion,without any further argument to back it up.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Kilmster is [TE] (Sorry, do not know website address), I believe at least from his previous sig image.
[TE] is one of the top NS clans at the moment. He knows what he is talking about. Clan matches are MUCH different than pub play. Your team will get slaughtered if you dont get a DC before anything else. Capping more than two RTs before saving for a hive gives the marines more time to save up for HMGs or jetpacks before you get your second hive online, along with the only way for you to fight the marine tech.
So to recap:
2 RTs before a hive MAX.
DCs are ESSENTIAL asap.
I know what I am talking about, as I regularily play in pugs (pick-up-games), which is a group of random vet players vs another group, or a clan. I also sometimes ring for my favorite clan, [TAKEN] (www.x-tower.com/taken), but since I am unavailible for play on weekdays, which are also default clan match times, joining any clan would be pointless for me.
If you want to see some really scary skill going on, head on over to <a href='http://www.shambler.net/' target='_blank'>http://www.shambler.net/</a> (home of [sYn], the top US clan, and now, apparently, top world clan). Download their replays, and watch.

MutantMFM · January 2003

One gorge will save for a hive while the other gorge or gorges will cap resource nozels and build chambers. That is the smart way to get on your way to victory.

Iden · January 2003

Depeneds:

Are your skulks getting OWNED? Is your current hive frequently under assault? At least one (although three are usually preferred) def would be helpful to heal the hive and give the skulks a chance against a better team.

If they're doing roughly even or just thrashing the marines theres no point.

Also: If your skulks are getting owned but your hive is NOT under attack then I suggest putting down an OT and DEF together somewhere to make a 'warning' or chokepoint that's vital to your opperations of continued existance.

MutantMFM · January 2003

Good point but usually the skulks are just distracting the marines from us by constantly attacking their base while the gorges build.

3 Def Or 2nd Hive?

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