Dissapointed At The Direction Ns Is Heading
Nether
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12530Members
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12530Members
NS is goind downhill, its harsh but I can only attribute this to the disease of a community that has come over from other HL mods and has infected NS.
This is what most people from the HL community and some on these boards consider to be exploiting.
If it takes skill its an exploit.
If it doesnt fit into my own personal vision of how I want NS to be or how Aliens the movie was, it is an exploit
If 1 person out of the 1000s of people who play NS doesnt know about a setting or modification then its an exploit, either everyone must know it or its totally unfair and unreasonable and must be removed.
If its not listed in the HL or NS manual then its instantly an exploit.
If you change your ns folder you are exploiting(Pulse rifle LMG model Etc).
You cant really do anything except move and shoot without somoene complaining about exploiting.
I am not addressing real balance issues here such as shooting thru walls or res donating I am referring to the small tricks and abilities that have either already been nerfed or argued over to death and are in the process of getting nerfed.
Is NS getting better? In terms of balance yes it is. In terms of skill and fun sadly no, it is being systematicly stripped of its dynamic and skillfull gameplay by a large and vocal group of people who seem to care little for reward based skill and more for new player/ less skilled player equality and absolute restriction.
Its really sad when such a great game has such a terrible and outspoken playerbase just itching to bury it.
This is what most people from the HL community and some on these boards consider to be exploiting.
If it takes skill its an exploit.
If it doesnt fit into my own personal vision of how I want NS to be or how Aliens the movie was, it is an exploit
If 1 person out of the 1000s of people who play NS doesnt know about a setting or modification then its an exploit, either everyone must know it or its totally unfair and unreasonable and must be removed.
If its not listed in the HL or NS manual then its instantly an exploit.
If you change your ns folder you are exploiting(Pulse rifle LMG model Etc).
You cant really do anything except move and shoot without somoene complaining about exploiting.
I am not addressing real balance issues here such as shooting thru walls or res donating I am referring to the small tricks and abilities that have either already been nerfed or argued over to death and are in the process of getting nerfed.
Is NS getting better? In terms of balance yes it is. In terms of skill and fun sadly no, it is being systematicly stripped of its dynamic and skillfull gameplay by a large and vocal group of people who seem to care little for reward based skill and more for new player/ less skilled player equality and absolute restriction.
Its really sad when such a great game has such a terrible and outspoken playerbase just itching to bury it.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I haven't seen any evidence to back what you've just posted. I can only assume you're talking about bunnyhopping, and it's a topic that's gotten SO little limelight I don't know what you're whining about.
So what exactly ARE you talking about? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Any chance of you being more specific ? What precisely is being stripped/nerfed which you don't think is an exploit ? Then we can have a discussion over it.
Perhaps you think players should be able to move at jump around at high-speeds, whipping around the level without making a sound (bunny-hopping)?
Perhaps you think that players should be able to use custom models so aliens hiding around the corner can always be seen (mp_consistency)?
These aren't small changes that are being done because a couple people complained about them on the forums. This are serious problems that must be addressed, sometimes at the expense of the general, non-exploiting public.
I would rather find some "omg the siege is bugged, it goes thru the walls!" than find no posts like that at all, and have no way to find out if something is working right, or not.
EDIT: WOW, fast replies, my post is directed at the maker of this thread, just in case <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes, Bhopping IS an exploit, when you can go at the same speed as a skulk without making any noice whatsoever, i would dare say, it is an exploit...
/boggle <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) Skill
2) A script if you don't have the skill or want to make bunny hopping easy for yourself
Should it be in NS? It definitely isn't nice to see Marine's hopping silently around ns_eclipse faster then the fastest skulk but quieter then a silenced Onos
And for the removal of that, and to edit models in the game and play with customs, I don't see the major problem for "nerfings" or things being removed
Let me point one thing out, I can't bunny hop, and I havn't gone to the point where I will use a script to help me learn faster then just continuosly trying to do it, but thanks to certain bugs, I also can't Perma-Hover in a hive with an HMG or GL, and other Marine's can build 3 Sentry Turrets before I even get my first one finished, not because of skill, but because of ways the software takes in information and puts it back out over each individuals different machine
Wrong. Many exploits require skill to use, but there are very few skills that are exploits. The question, irrelevant over whether or not bunnyhopping requires skill or not, is whether bunnyhopping belongs in a game like NS. I, and many others agree, it most certainly does NOT belong as it completely breaks the believability of the game, was NOT something the devs intended to be in the game, and unbalances it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is NS getting better? In terms of balance yes it is. In terms of skill and fun sadly no, it is being systematicly stripped of its dynamic and skillfull gameplay by a large and vocal group of people who seem to care little for reward based skill and more for new player/ less skilled player equality and absolute restriction.
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It seems to me that you view ANYTHING in the game, no matter how unrealistic, unbalanced, or unintentional on the part of the devs, to be something that belongs in the game because it provides something more for you to do, some extra way to display your gaming skill. You use the term 'dynamic and skillfull gameplay' when (i think) you are referring to such things as bunnyhopping, alien->marine conversions, using map bugs, etc. Is that correct?
We dont 'care little' for reward based skill either, we just dont want to reward skills that have no place in NS. If there was some very difficult sequence of things you could do to turn yourself invincible for the rest of the map, would you want it left in? It certainly requires skill, and theres a big reward for having that skill. But do you honestly think NS would be a better game with it than without it? There is a ton of skill required to be good at NS, and it has one of the steepest learning curves of any game i've played.
The vast majority of the players support fixing bugs, balancing the game, and on the whole removing things that break the realism of the game. If you want a mod where tons of little hidden 'bonuses' are added for wily players, where the setting and storyline has nothing to do with the gameplay, and the only true skill is in how many exploits you know how to do, i suggest you look for a different mod.
While I will not defend the original poster's full statement the first is part is correct. There is a "disease" or perhaps a "mindset" in the HL gaming community(it is in other communities as well but not as bad) that is extremely negative. It "infects" almost everything it touches. Mebbe its just the average age/maturity level of those that play, mebbe its the fact that the intraweb is anonymous, mebbe its...oh heck! I dont know! But what I do know is that HL community as a whole is pretty gdamn irritating. The games themselves are fine, its the players/community that suck.
So yeah, the whole "blink" bit was all I really had to add. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Second- did you know water is VERY reactive to substances? I had chemistry- the first row on the Periodic Table will really flare up in water. Water corrodes and destorys everything. The beings on this planet use water, but it's QUITE likely beings from another planet are not carbon based and would be harmed by water.
Acid from them is the same idea. And as far as spitting globs of it.. well- we have plent of creatures on EARTH that spit poison, and other substances at their prey. Who knows what world these aliens come from and what form of adapting they went through.
The marines having a limitless supply of marines is just a nice way to keep the game FUN while somewhat realistic. Marines don't respawn, they are reinforcements. Stuff dropping from the ceiling is based around nanotechnology- of which we have NOW available in some parts. We're researching further. It builds structures molecule by molecule. In 50 years from now, who KNOWS what we could do with it.
So what's so damn unbelievable? If you know a little bit about our world- you'd know this game has a lot of base in reality. Crouching marines who jump constantly at a speed greater than a cheetah is physically impossible- and it is not intended to be a fun element based around real happenings to be included in NS. Therefor it is being removed.
Got anything else?
amen. look at the tfc community. they just wait for a chance to tear someone's head off
As for the guy who started this thread, what do you consider dynamic and exciting tactics and gameplay? Having an alien become a super-fast marine with marine weapons? Making enemy models all one bright color so they can be easily seen in the shadows? Removing your models so using certain weapons don't have a built-in hinderance? Get real.
Remember folks, NS is a mod for Half-Life. It is not a new game that should be modified further unless the devs permit it (and they have in some if not most instances, but with caution). Considering the TYPE of game that NS is -- it requires a fine degree of balance between two separate teams to be fair -- which lends to the fact that any modification has the possiblity of messing up gameplay and making things unfair. Who the hell wants to play an unfair game?
ns is a sci-fi game. Strange "outta this world" aliens, guns that shoot through walls, nanobots all fit into this theme. now, bunnyhopping...BUNNY....HOPPING?! does that even remotely sound like it fits a sci-fi theme in any way? if you want bunnyhopping go play a console platformer starring bunnies (Bugs Bunny perhaps?)
Its called 'suspension of disbelief'. In order to make a game enjoyable, there needs to be a reason behind everything that you experience in the game. Everytime you see something in a game that does not make sense (given our current understanding of the way things work in our universe and what we are lead to believe about the universe the game is set it) it knocks you back into our reality a bit, instead of getting really engaged in the game. If you were playing CS and health fell from the sky onto you, you'd be really confused. It doesn't make sense given the setting CS is supposed to take place in. However, in NS, health falling from the cieling is expected, and most importantly it makes sense given the backstory, so you dont get the 'ok, that doesn't make sense' that pulls you out of the immersion into the game.
There is a big difference between 'pure fantasy' things that are merely the products of bugs and 'pure fantasy' things that are part of the storyline. Every example of you give above is well supported and believably explained by the storyline. Go read the manual and the backstory on the main site. The method by which aliens regenerate is well documented in the manual, and it makes sense. Bunnyhopping is NOT an intended, believable feature of the marines, and therefore has no place in NS.
I sure hope you dont think that the only way to make a believable game is to set it on earth in 2003 using our current technology and social setting. That would make for some horribly repetative, unoriginal games.
NS is goind downhill, its harsh but I can only attribute this to the disease of a community that has come over from other HL mods and has infected NS.
This is what most people from the HL community and some on these boards consider to be exploiting.
If it takes skill its an exploit.
If it doesnt fit into my own personal vision of how I want NS to be or how Aliens the movie was, it is an exploit
If 1 person out of the 1000s of people who play NS doesnt know about a setting or modification then its an exploit, either everyone must know it or its totally unfair and unreasonable and must be removed.
If its not listed in the HL or NS manual then its instantly an exploit.
If you change your ns folder you are exploiting(Pulse rifle LMG model Etc).
You cant really do anything except move and shoot without somoene complaining about exploiting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> </span>
I play NS alot, in pubs, pugs, scrims, and matches ... you sir have no clue about wtf you saying, please all who read this know that this is based on a few experiences of one nub ns player.
I am an exploiter by definition of most poeple here. I personally do not consider myself a cheater/haxor/exploiter just a normal player who likes to customise alot.
I am the object of hate to many people, These are the reasons I do them so you can see why "exploiters" like myself do we what do.
I play with my models turned off.
I do this becuase I have always played with my models off in all fps I play. My reasons? becuase the models and muzzle flash block your view. Simply put this adds an element of guesswork to your aim in any given fight. If I am having to guess then Im not using my hand eye coordination skill, I am putting the crosshair where I hope my opponent is not putting my crosshair where I Know my opponent to be. I dont like this at all. The obstruction is not absolute I know but its still there and adds an element of guesswork which removes an element of player skill.
That is my reason for turning models off, if these reasons are unjust then you and I differ greatly in opinion.
I bunnyhop.
I came to NS from quake and at first I could not BH at all. I can in qauke and it is as accepted and as normal as rocket jumping has been since quake 1. It took me 3 weeks to become a very profcient BH in NS, thats not meant to brag but illustrate that its not difficult. I know you can get scripts which do it for you but I prefer to do it myself as its not that hard.
Why do I bunny hop you ask?. Well becuase it allows you to move faster over long distances, NS maps are big If i have to get from marine base to viaduct that a long trip, bunnyhopping gets you there faster and it passes the time. BH takes concentration so while your doing it it keeps you occupied so you dont get bored and bh is in general FUN to do. BH in combat can make it more difficult for the opposing sides but at the end of the day both sides can do it, if a marine is BH away from you just BH after him you will go faster as your base speed is higher. Basicly everyone can do it, its fun, it takes skill (if your not using a script) and it adds another dynamic to gameplay.
I change my weapon and character models.
My weapon is a pulse rifle from aliens. My alien skins are the Geiger aliens from the films aswell, I use the default marine as I havent seen one I liked better yet but if I do ill change it.
Why do I change my skins? I think the pulse rifle model looks cool! everyone has a childish fantasy about blasting some aliens just like in the film, the pulse rifle model just makes it that much sweeter. Same goes for alien models. As far as I can tell these models have not aided me in anyway or given me any advantage over other players. If I wanted an advantage or to exploit I would paint my skins bright pink so they would stand out a mile in any circumstances. To the people here there seem to be no difference though, they would enforce a damaging rule on everyone to stop a tiny few.
I use scripting.(leap/bite that sort of thing)
Im not really that strong minded about this one, its a gray area as some things can be ok and some not, BH scripts and attack scripts are ok in my opinion but then you ping modifying scripts etc that make you hard to hit which is obviously passed the line.
There flame away :/
You're missing the point that bunnyhopping was never designed to be part of the game. The ability to bunnyhop is a bug and was never intended to be part of the game. Just because you CAN bunnyhop does not mean that you should. By the same token, just because you CAN drive 150mph in your car on a crowded highway does not mean your should. Highway systems are not designed for 150mph drivers. Natural Selection was not designed for bunnyhopping.
A couple of questions:
1) Do you understand what "ethics" are ?
2) Do you understand the concept of "fairness" ?
If you answered "yes" to either of these questions, then please explain how bunnyhopping is ethical and fair.
1 Unobstructed view while skulking
2 BH
3 Leap/Bite script.
4 No muzzle flash
You, dear Sir, are a llama. I won´t miss you, should you decide to leave this "infected community".
/NB
Just as most drug addicts would not consider themselves addicts and most criminals do not consider themselves criminals. You, sir, are an exploiter and are the cause of much frustration in the HL community. By taking advantage of an unintended "skill" or "hack" to give yourself and unfair advantage, you are taking enjoyment away from those who choose to play by the rules. Rules are important because they establish fairness and a level playing field. Tilting the playing field unfairly in your favor by consciously taking advantage of exploits and hacks will get you banned on my server. I'm sure I'm not the only server admin who feels this way, either.
I would enjoy hearing your definition of ethical and fair behavior.
Not true, BH was around long before HL and if the makers of HL had thought hey we dont want BH in HL they would of prevented it then. Its a positive side effect of the game physics. If it was never intended it would not be around now as it was known before hand.
When Rocket Jumping was discovered in quake everyone thought WOW and tried it themselves and loved it.
When Bunny hopping was disocvered in quake everyone thought COOL how do I do that and tried it for themselves and loved it.
When something is discovered in a half life mod, everyone says WTF? right how do I get this banned or removed.
What does that say about the HL community? You people do nothing but ruin good games, the HL community is as I said a disease, which is basicly full of arrogant self righteous fools (brembo).
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THEN. JUST. LEAVE.
Simple as that.
/NB
EDIT: Oh, and please point out the part where I was arrogant and self-righteous. :EDIT
if Flayra was only concerned with making this mod the most popular on the net im sure he'd listen to all those whiners and complainers out there and let this mod lose all its respect and meaningfullness.