UPDATE 329 - ORIGIN - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 466 vanilla
edited September 19 in NS2 General Discussion

imageUPDATE 329 - ORIGIN - Natural Selection 2

Welcome back to “Colony Zero,” the forgotten mining facility on the moon Freya IV. Greed and a continued push for dominance brought the TSF to this moon, but what they...

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pSyk0mAncoine

Comments

  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 758 Advanced user
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 877 Advanced user
    1st! Nice update. Much love

    CannonFodderAUS
    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Happy to see an update
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 154 Advanced user
    Nice improvement, but I still have the same claims :
    - Infantry Portal = 15 res (from 20)
    - Scan = 2 res (from 3)
    - When Arms Lab is destroyed when searching, that searching is refunded
    - Power Surge should work on Power Nodes (when alien get the main base power node it's a nightmare)

    Skulk base rush is still sneaky and over-powerfull

    Cloak/hallucination are very strong.
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    ns2_hera2018 : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155092/ns2-hera2018
    ns2_nancy2019 : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155726/ns2-nancy2019
    ns2_nancy_veil : https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/155851/ns2-nancy-veil
  • KopungaKopunga Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178764Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 57 Advanced user
    edited September 19
    Where do I report bugs? Is here an appropriate place?
    If so: The tooltip for Consuming a Tunnel Exit says "Tip (G)" instead of "Consume (G)". Not really a bug, but probably not what was intended either.

    xc5u2ov7zt3c.png
    Post edited by Kopunga on
    Kopunga der Horror aus der Dose!
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 622 Advanced user
    Thanks Steelcap!
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Forum staff Posts: 469 admin
    Kopunga wrote: »
    Where do I report bugs? Is here an appropriate place?
    If so: The tooltip for Consuming a Tunnel Exit says "Tip (G)" instead of "Consume (G)". Not really a bug, but probably not what was intended either.

    xc5u2ov7zt3c.png

    Also, 'entrance' is misspelt.
    IronHorseNordic
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,665 Advanced user
    Origin is a good map, glad to see that it has been added to the official map pool
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    Nordic
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members Posts: 1,171 Advanced user
    edited September 21
    Newest update broke the game for me, getting "Couldn't initialize the render device" error from spark on launch. Was working perfectly last patch. I already tried forcing D3D11 and all the other default suggestions in the tech support into thread to no effect

    Fixed.

    Turns out someone added a dedicated build_329 D3D setting to the %addpada%/Natural Selection 2 settings xml file which defaulted to using D3D11 and overrode the original D3D setting. Why this was done is beyond me but changing it to D3D9 fixed it.
    Post edited by 1dominator1 on
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    New Ability: Consume. Allows a Khammander to recycle alien structures and return the supply cost.

    For the love of gorge... why allow that? The whole bloody point of the game was that the teams were asymmetric.
    Aliens have already had echo and could MOVE those damned structures.

    Could you please take a step back, and take a look at the bigger picture?
    Most of your efforts for more players and better player retention had been a disaster.
    This game will never have more than 300 players daily, and as a few of us who cares have already warned, you are messing up the game for those few people.

    The game is starting to feel like overwatch with each update.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 686 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    New Ability: Consume. Allows a Khammander to recycle alien structures and return the supply cost.

    For the love of gorge... why allow that? The whole bloody point of the game was that the teams were asymmetric.
    Aliens have already had echo and could MOVE those damned structures.

    Could you please take a step back, and take a look at the bigger picture?
    Most of your efforts for more players and better player retention had been a disaster.
    This game will never have more than 300 players daily, and as a few of us who cares have already warned, you are messing up the game for those few people.

    The game is starting to feel like overwatch with each update.

    Marine Commander recycles to gain Tres back, The Khamm consumes to return the supply (note, no Tres is returned when you consume).

    The whole point of it is that if you are supply capped and decide rather than having a shade you want a crag... now you can do that!, previously? you just had to walk that shade off of infestation and wait for it to die... it makes perfect sense to have this in the game and if your only argument against it is "oh, but asymmetry" then you need to reconsider your position.

    If you haven't noticed, the supply changes are to try to address frustrating "tactics" that have arisen over time... whip/obs spam being a pretty notable one... with supply changes comes the need for consume because if you DON'T have it, you get locked down to what you have and you get no wiggle room/can't change your tactics mid round... or at least not as quickly as you need to.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Ok, "supply" is more closer to res for me (P+T).
    Structure limit is what's displayed at the top.
    Never during my time playing NS2 have i heard someone refer it to as "supply".
    If you haven't noticed, the supply changes are to try to address frustrating "tactics" that have arisen over time... whip/obs spam being a pretty notable one...

    Not really mate, I obs spammed a few months ago, and won the round for us. And AFAIK that hasnt changed.
    The structure limit is there because the game engine cant handle more entities, lets not kid ourselves.

    I really dont get it. You could've increased the structure cost for the OBS, and eliminated OBS spam.
    You havent even touched that variable.

    But whatever.
    I guess it's the same as HP bars.
    Someone likes them, someone dont.

    I do wish you guys good luck, and I hope you'll enjoy the game.
    It's been fun while it wasnt a noob-friendly, run-of-the-mill crap.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 686 Advanced user
    edited September 20
    .trixX. wrote: »
    Ok, "supply" is more closer to res for me (P+T).
    Structure limit is what's displayed at the top.
    Never during my time playing NS2 have i heard someone refer it to as "supply".
    If you haven't noticed, the supply changes are to try to address frustrating "tactics" that have arisen over time... whip/obs spam being a pretty notable one...

    Not really mate, I obs spammed a few months ago, and won the round for us. And AFAIK that hasnt changed.
    The structure limit is there because the game engine cant handle more entities, lets not kid ourselves.

    I really dont get it. You could've increased the structure cost for the OBS, and eliminated OBS spam.
    You havent even touched that variable.

    But whatever.
    I guess it's the same as HP bars.
    Someone likes them, someone dont.

    I do wish you guys good luck, and I hope you'll enjoy the game.
    It's been fun while it wasnt a noob-friendly, run-of-the-mill crap.

    Structure limit IS SUPPLY!!!

    P-res and T-res are resources... not a supply limit. Increasing the cost of a structure is negligible... if a marine team are holding 5 - 6 rts they can afford any cost... but if you increase the supply cost, they can't get as many up before they hit the supply limit... this is how you prevent spamming.

    As for the "Not really mate, I obs spammed a few months ago, and won the round for us. And AFAIK that hasnt changed."

    Read the patch notes... its not super long and it takes little effort.

    Commander
    Supply
    Sentry Battery supply increased to 15 from 10
    Increased observatory supply to 40 from 30
    Mac supply reduced to 5 (from 10)
    Armory supply reduced to 0 (from 5)
    Arc supply reduced to 25 (from 35)
    Robotics factory supply reduced to 0 (from 5)

    So, as you can see above, with a supply limit of 200, you could potentially have gotten 5 obs up and had enough left over for all your structure needs... NOW, you can get 4, because the additional supply costs changes of other structures means you need to factor in their lower costs into the situation also.
    It may only be a minor nerf to obs spam, but it IS a nerf.

    If memory serves, this is the second time in the past few patches that has increased the supply cost of the observatory (I could be wrong here though)

    TL:DR - please, please, please... read the patch notes before you comment on them.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    .trixX.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Ok, that's a welcome change (the OBS structure cost).
    I've been crying about that for the last year, at least. Good to see it finally made it in.
    Structure limit IS SUPPLY!!!

    Yeah, i've figured that one out already ("supply" is a bit misleading though).
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Kasharic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    edited September 20
    It has been called supply for years. This is not new.

    Edit: It is also unusual to see you, trixx, saying that the game is being dumbed down too much. I am paraphrasing. I have been under the impression that you are an incredibly casual player, at least going by your forum posts.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,665 Advanced user
    It's also a StarCraft term
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    Nordic
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Edit: It is also unusual to see you, trixx, saying that the game is being dumbed down too much. I am paraphrasing. I have been under the impression that you are an incredibly casual player, at least going by your forum posts.

    Allow me to digress:
    .trixX. wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    I am convinced that my suggestion would actually be fairly unpopular with the community at large. I described why here. @.trixX. has been quite vocal with his distaste for my suggestion. That doesn't mean I haven't found any support. Some people really do like what I am suggesting.

    Let me refine my position!:]

    I understand the problems you're trying to solve, but I'm against dumbing down the game in any form. The thing i particularly loathe is the introduction of HP bars.

    No, I'm not a valued player (except maybe for commanding), my acc is around 16%, and K:D is around 1.5.
    But I have no inclination to play a dumbed down NS, which is increasingly the case....
    And I've always been on the "side of professional balancing" (which means to balance the game for the pros, not the pub plebs like me)

    Just one suggestion if i might:
    Consume. Allows a Khammander to recycle alien structures

    Dont call it "recycle/consume" in-game. Call it destroy, so people wont get confused like me ;]
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • MarkbassMarkbass Eindhoven Join Date: 2014-05-09 Member: 195942Members, Reinforced - Silver Posts: 7 Fully active user
    The new main screen looks so awesome. And so does the gorge
    Nordic
  • KopungaKopunga Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178764Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 57 Advanced user
    Markbass wrote: »
    The new main screen looks so awesome. And so does the gorge

    I strongly disagree. I mean, I don't mind the video in the background, though I'd prefer it had no sound, even though I liked the old background more. But I really dislike the new Interface. I guess if it's that much easier to handle on the backend, I can live with it, but the frontend design imho is a D- at best. Strongly dislike it.
    By far the worst part is the new Server Browser, but the rest is also very unpleasant to my eyes. Also, I don't know if that's rooted in the new Server Browser, but since the update I regularly have servers listed with empty slots (player and/or spectator) and when I try to connect I get "Server Full". It happened in the old one as well but was rare for me, whereas it is common in the new one. Also one of the first things I did after the update was disabling music, because the new music in the main screen made my ears bleed; F---

    The Gorge is okay. No objection here.
    Kopunga der Horror aus der Dose!
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 2,416 mod
    Anybody else receive the gorge skin yet? Pretty sure I've played >5 rounds on origin over 5 minutes each and still no skin :(
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    aeroripper wrote: »
    Anybody else receive the gorge skin yet? Pretty sure I've played >5 rounds on origin over 5 minutes each and still no skin :(

    I am having a really hard time convincing others to vote for origin so that I can get the skin.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • KopungaKopunga Join Date: 2013-01-10 Member: 178764Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 57 Advanced user
    aeroripper wrote: »
    Anybody else receive the gorge skin yet? Pretty sure I've played >5 rounds on origin over 5 minutes each and still no skin :(

    I got it the night it was released (pretty much)

    And you are sure you were playing on ranked servers? I got mine the moment my 5th round ended.
    Kopunga der Horror aus der Dose!
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 2,416 mod
  • Kor_ThanatosKor_Thanatos South korea Join Date: 2019-09-24 Member: 254814Members Posts: 2 Fully active user
    edited September 24
    Before I write, I apologize for writing in a translator because I am poor at English.

    Hello, I am a fan of NS2 in Korea.
    I bought it in 2017 and I'm still playing happily. I'm mostly playing with Aliens and I'm not satisfied with the latest balance patch in general, but I'm playing with some convincing. But I think one problem is very unsatisfactory.
    That is the question of too narrow a choice of early strategies.
    Frankly speaking, I tend to think that the balance between Norupgrade Skulk and Norupgrade Marine is very serious. Because while Marin can melt the skulk lightly from a distance, Skulk can take risks and make a leap to the enemy, and it is difficult to ensure an unconditional victory at the risk of being held.
    Of course, such defects can be overcome by moving skulk and topographical features, but even so, they are often difficult to overcome, demanding a high level of skill and understanding, and a good Marine can easily break them down.
    That's why Aliens are almost determined to upgrade their Craig hive to an OP operability vampirism upgrade.
    It is an inevitable upgrade because it gives Skulk, who is constantly exposed to danger, a strong survival and combat sustainability.
    I think there is a problem here.
    Vampireism is so powerful.
    Alien commanders, whether they like it or not, must upgrade their Craig hive to overcome their originally unfavorable commercial reputation.
    That's why if the two sides of the game are in a state of ambivalence in the middle of the game, Aliens usually have two hive, so if there is a resorse, then Aliens, who can't make a complete upgrade, are in a dilemma, unlike Marine, who can make a final upgrade.
    What will you choose for the second hive upgrade?
    As a personal experience, I think a lot of Alien commanders go almost to a fixed shift hive. Because the shift live upgrade gives us strong flexibility (from the commander's point of view). That's why, in most cases, you're giving up shade hive, which means you're going to end up being very monotonous in your strategy, where you're going to have only one choice.
    There's more I want to say after this, but it's going to be too long, so if you want to say what I want to say in the end.
    I'm asking you to adjust vampirism.
    I think this ability is so OP that I feel very uncomfortable from Marin's side and Alien's side, so I think it needs to be adjusted.
    That's not to say nerf. Without this ability, I think perhaps the Alien team's winning rate would be almost halved," especially in the low-tier section.
    This is what I think of as a change.
    Instead of just giving vampirism to all units, it changes the level of vampirism by increasing the level of biomass to level 1 and level 2,3.
    I think this patch is a huge positive change for the Aliens.
    I think more choices, more builds are made.
    Of course, since it is a unilateral buff against the Alien camp in the early stage, I think a proper change is needed such as a slight adjustment to the Aliens camp's maximum strength.
    with great impartiality
    I do not want to say that this is absolutely right. If you think it's not, and you refuse to accept it, I understand. The developers of this game are you, not me, so I think your opinion is paramount.
    So I thank you for reading my long article that wrote my immature views and support you for continuing to work on developing good games. :D
  • Kor_ThanatosKor_Thanatos South korea Join Date: 2019-09-24 Member: 254814Members Posts: 2 Fully active user
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,665 Advanced user
    New menu is slick and neat. I like the animated skins thingy, it's definitely modern. I prefer the simplicity of the old menu but this one is good too.

    Grenade throw bind is a godsend.

    Cool beans, my lean and green friends

    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    Nordic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    I finally got that skin just now. I commanded a grueling 25 minute loss with marines who couldn't defend any res. Yay skin!
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
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