i agree that if a comm or gorg stuffs up your game at the start its very difficult to do anything about it... i have also played games wer the mariens, holding 2 hives proceeded to upgrade everything, puting tf and siege at every choke point in the map. it lasted for wot seemed like years untill they finnaly decided to seige our final hive... if i knew they would just seige us i would have F4'd the moment they got HA/HMG...
i used to go cloaked onos as soon as 3d hive is up... other team usually F4's soon as, or the fades will have taken down the cc and ip's =( so i go gorg instead and let my babies to the work, alot more fun <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why is it refereed to as "readyroom" peoples? Because you get ready to play in it. I like being able to chat with people from the last round in the readyroom while new players that just joined are joining teams. Like I said, don't take my fun and pleasure out of NS. I see the readyroom as a social gathering area. last night there was like 5 people in the readyroom just talking about NS politics and NS related gossip through their mikes. This kinda feature makes NS a very community like game Field where players can really come together. Enjoy life finally and let me walk aimlessly around the readyroom if I want. Your server can't handle the extra entities than get a more powerful server <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> The dev team and Flayra mentioned several times that they wanted NS to be a success mainly in the teamplay, online community, gaming Field. NS attracts many people just for the reason that is it an open and very social game. In CS i hardly ever heard people using voice comm using their mike. Thats because CS doesn't involve that much teamwork and in NS you can feel as if you got a new Friend after every round simply because your team communicated their needs and suggestions through the mike.
I have played until the end, and I have also F4'ed. My deciding point is not how the other team is playing, but how my team is playing. If I am on a team that acts like a team, I will stay until the very last. If they are a bunch of Rambos who can't be bothered to watch my back, I'm out (I often spectate just to se them go down in flames). Just last night I was on a team of marines. 2 of us against 4 aliens. Our commander had ditched early. The aliens killd us both and decided to toy with us. Well, that was a bad move because we took advantage of it. We let them think they were toying with us while we watched the resources slowly grow. Then, we slapped down a bunch of turrents at base, put in pahse gates, got HMG and jetpacks and went hive hunting. It took us less than 5 minutes to wipe them out because they figured they had us. The base rush was useless because we farmed the base and they never bothered with ive defenses. Sometimes staying is worth it. However, if my teammate had kept running off I would have just F4'ed.
while i do get annoyed when the other team f4's just when we are winning, i can't really blame them. it is just not fun to get killed 10 seconds after you respawn. ask urself this: why do we play games? that's right, to have fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--cybrangl+Jan 17 2003, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cybrangl @ Jan 17 2003, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have played until the end, and I have also F4'ed. My deciding point is not how the other team is playing, but how my team is playing. If I am on a team that acts like a team, I will stay until the very last. If they are a bunch of Rambos who can't be bothered to watch my back, I'm out (I often spectate just to se them go down in flames). Just last night I was on a team of marines. 2 of us against 4 aliens. Our commander had ditched early. The aliens killd us both and decided to toy with us. Well, that was a bad move because we took advantage of it. We let them think they were toying with us while we watched the resources slowly grow. Then, we slapped down a bunch of turrents at base, put in pahse gates, got HMG and jetpacks and went hive hunting. It took us less than 5 minutes to wipe them out because they figured they had us. The base rush was useless because we farmed the base and they never bothered with ive defenses. Sometimes staying is worth it. However, if my teammate had kept running off I would have just F4'ed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right on it!
I was going to post something, but he already wrote all that I would have! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
really pisses me off when a whole team f4s. i always tell them not to f4 when some other guy tells them to, but if most of my team is gone, theres not much point in staying <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Toying with, I agree is annoying. However I dont see why someone f4s as soon as aliens get two hives or vice versa.
Why do we even play at all? Lets just toss a coin and then the losing team all presses f4. Losing endgame can still be fun, you just need to change your perception of the game.
As well as all the other reasons above is the exploit of donating RPs (although I got kicked once for arguing with the admin that donating was explioting, but the dev teams recent comments and patch additions have vindicated me).
However, when you are losing and the enemy team is toying with you (by design or incompetance), it's often the only way to get to the next map and try again. I've been in too many games where the marines are getting hammered, but the aliens seem to fear to actually mount an agressive assault on the comm (or even to set clawed foot into the spawn area), but are content to make lame hit and runs into the marine spawn, draggin on the game for 30+ minutes. All the marines are looking at each other wondering why the #$%# they just dont finish us off, we've made our peace with God hours ago, I think He may be getting impatient, coz I told Him I'd be there real soon...
For marines, hitting f4 is like the Strategic officer deciding, that's enough, I'm not sending any more troops over to that ship to die. Just arm the nukes and blow it out of the sky already... But too often, immature players decide, to bug out when things even look bad (they have seiges, hit f4 it's all over!... But, we have Onos....).
There is no real corrolation with the kharaa side, they SHOULD fight to the very last skulk, due to their nature.
Voting to concede is a better option (and it should say Prep the Nuke (stay on your last life, no more respawning) or Last Stand (fight to the bitter end) as your choices...)
If you want a way to concede, then for crying out loud, institute a voting system.
If you wanna chat in the RR, rejoin the server, or leave if it's full so that PLAYERS can join.
If you wanna donate res points, you are exploiting and a cheater. Stop it.
If you wanna get out of the structure you are stuck in, type kill (it has advantages over f4ing, especially if you are kharaa and dont want to lose all of your rps).
F4 has a useful purpose, removing it would be a shame, then people would just go to another server. The realities are not, everyone can afford to spend hours and hours in a losing game just because one side or the other wants to prolong it, or the side they are on is incompitent. To religate this MAJORITY to finding another server is not only self defeating, it is down right shameful. Natural Selection has the stuff it takes to go retail just like CS, only unlike CS it is highly team oriented.
Due to it's team play orientation games can go on for much longer that they rightfully should when one team or the other is very bad in the team play department. I don't mind losing if the game was fast and furious, I don't like winning in the first 10 minutes, I also don't like waiting for 30 minutes for HA/HMG HA/NADE marines to finally come to the last hive to take it out, or for the fades to get enough res to go onos when it is clear the game tide will not shift back the other way.
F4 serves a useful purpose, don't seek to criple that purpose.
It's the same for me, I see more toying towards the Kharaa from the Marine team than vice versa. The turret farming gets a tad annoying after awhile, the Marines just sit around camping their bases, it gets tiresome. I know I've F4'd on Eclipse just because of that. They had CC and Main., they spent an hour sitting in their bases, not even attacking unless provoked, trying to get every little upgrade and turrets all over. I got annoyed at one point after numerous complaints to Marines about it that resulted in nothing but my F4. Anytime someone on the Kharaa says not to kill the spawn I will typically ignore them, unless it's a Gorge who wants to stick up about 8 OCs (Which will kill the portal in no-time mind you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still don't find it a significant enough feature to keep activated for long into the game though. True someone can retry or go to another server but there are more variables to consider there. There are a lot of empty servers out there, the ones that aren't empty are typically full, it can be a pain and even more time-consuming to find a new server. Retrying can also cause you to lose your spot on a full server, god knows there is always someone out there monitoring the server for an open slot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
I don't find the end-game to be fun at all, no matter if I am winning or losing. The trend of people giving up too easily (Fade, gg) is a bit pathetic, fortunately it's not that widespread on the server I play at.
If the game truly *is* lost, ie: you have NO chance to make a comeback, I don't mind if you f4, I will. The problem is just that the point where the game is lost is obviously very different for people. f4-ing just because you only have a 20% chance of winning is a loser attitude.
As marine the end is usually quicker, bilebombs and onos in base makes short work of everything, no need to f4 since it will be over in a couple of minutes anyway and who knows, you might knife an onos. As alien it's a bit different since often the marines take forever to get the third hive down. Here's when I f4 as alien:
Marines have 2 hives. Two TF's in each base and lots (8+) turrets as well as siege and phase gate. I've seen comebacks from everything else, and COMEBACKS are the BEST part of playing NS, using F4 will mean you don't experience them.
If a team loses by all pressing F4 then as punishment everyone in the readyroom should spawn into the base/hive of the winning team unable to do anything so the winning team can shoot them all down in a humiliating way ;D This would make the winning team feel a lot more satisfied about their win.
Anyway it doesn't have to be exactly like that, but *something* to make the winning team feel more satisfied after the other team F4's would be nice. I could probably think of something better...like:
The team that went to readyroom spawns like chickens for the other team to hunt down.
Yes yes..the readyroom. The only problem i see with it, is the idlers. Only making teams unequal. Some stay there for hours...geez.
I have F4ed couple of times and i have fought to the end more than i have given up. Once i F4ed because some other people had done it, and marines were enjoying only to frag us with their HA/hmg/gl stuff ;P. It took SO long. I have no problem with it, i can see why people like to F4. New game/New change of winning and hopefully better commander.
I like Glacius' idea. I brought up this thread after the question was asked in another forum. The thread was created after +2 hour game was ruined by F4'ers... and i mean ruined.
I do not enjoy losing. I do not enjoy winning. I am completely indifferent to either. From an enjoyment standpoint, they mean nothing to me. What I enjoy are the EVENTS and DECISIONS coupled with the strong teamplay that have led to the victory or defeat. Winning is only the game's way of "declaring" which team is playing better and made better decisions. By itself it is not meant to be fun. I derive my enjoyment from actively participating in the strategy my team is using as well as carrying out various tactical maneuvers. I derive my satisfaction from knowing that despite whether my team won or lost, I played a damn good game. I'm baffled when people say "It's fun to win" or "It's no fun to lose".
NS is a strategy game. A first person strategy game with strong emphasis on teamplay, yes, but a strategy game still. Can anyone name a single strategy game that does not have some type of surrender function? No one can, because there aren't any. Strategy games need such a function simply because of the way they play out -- it's a frequent occurrence that one side is in such a position that there is little to no way of winning. The game is already lost, simply because they are no longer any means of winning. It is no longer a possibility, merely an eventuality. Yet, the actual act of "losing" (i.e. the other team "winning") as defined by the gameplay could take significantly longer, whether intentionally (by the losing team) or not. The game is no longer fun for the losing team, because everything that makes the game fun has now become futile because the other team is too overpowering. The game is no longer fun for the winning team (unless they feed on the misery of others), because the losing team can no longer put up a good fight, one that might actually change the outcome and make the gameplay more varied, interesting and challenging.
Some could call it a gameplay flaw that lost games do not always end in a relatively short fashion, and they'd be partially right, but that's what the surrender function is there for. When it happens, just use it, and tada, instant lost.
The only real problem I see is people surrendering too quickly, before all hopes and possibilities are exhausted. But despite what many posters in this thread have stated, there IS a difference between a scrub who gives up easily and a knowledgeable player who knows he's beaten and surrenders so a fresh new game can be started.
Personally, I'd rather have scrubs who quit too early than hard headed players who make a game last 20-30 minutes longer than it should simply because they refuse to give up.
Knowing when a team should surrender and when not to should be a part of learning to play this game.
Surrendering should be legitimatized and balanced out via a voting system; don't take players out of the game just for voting to surrender -- too many of their teammates might disagree.
The moment when i have the more fun (i think) is when the base is completely "siege" by fades. Then i'm going to fight like a hero, and in the rain of bullet i frag a fade!!! It's great, i'd like to kill fades when the situation is very bad for us...
Remember that at any time there's always a hope....
I saw a lot of games where the aliens have 2 hives, or the marines have 2 hives, then they loose because of the resistance and the "team spirit"... You haven't saw it's when the situation is very hard, then the team (in public server) become to be a real team, they say attack this point, then every body do this, then they take this point etc...
Loosing isn't all that bad, in fact I'd prefer loosing to rushing the hive after 2 minutes or other effecient and extremly boring tactics. If you feel that the "waiting to loose" part of what is usually the end game is boring you are taking this all too seriously, this game is not about life and death, it is not for REAL so relax and have fun. I'd personally like to see less surenderring just because they have HMGs or fades or whatever. I've seen a comback from only 1 gorge(nestled in 2 OCs and a DC) and a hive just started building(everyone else dead), the marines had no comm console but controlled 2 hives and had only deault weapons. Sometimes things don't turn out as you would predict, and even if you loose in a humiliating defeat you can have fun doing so.
ok, for you guys wanting to take away f4...have you ever played in a game where the aliens took over your base and just camped the infantry portals to rack up the kills but didn't bother taking them out? there are some times when you just need to be able to get the game over with so you can get a new one going and have some fun. it is lame when one marine spawns at a time only to meet 3 onoses and fades waiting right there.
I love F4, I love readyroom. Whingers go and put your head in a skulk.
For the rest...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't find the end-game to be fun at all, no matter if I am winning or losing. The trend of people giving up too easily (Fade, gg) is a bit pathetic, fortunately it's not that widespread on the server I play at.
If the game truly *is* lost, ie: you have NO chance to make a comeback, I don't mind if you f4, I will. The problem is just that the point where the game is lost is obviously very different for people. f4-ing just because you only have a 20% chance of winning is a loser attitude.
As marine the end is usually quicker, bilebombs and onos in base makes short work of everything, no need to f4 since it will be over in a couple of minutes anyway and who knows, you might knife an onos. As alien it's a bit different since often the marines take forever to get the third hive down. Here's when I f4 as alien:
Marines have 2 hives. Two TF's in each base and lots (8+) turrets as well as siege and phase gate. I've seen comebacks from everything else, and COMEBACKS are the BEST part of playing NS, using F4 will mean you don't experience them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
i have also played games wer the mariens, holding 2 hives proceeded to upgrade everything, puting tf and siege at every choke point in the map. it lasted for wot seemed like years untill they finnaly decided to seige our final hive... if i knew they would just seige us i would have F4'd the moment they got HA/HMG...
i used to go cloaked onos as soon as 3d hive is up... other team usually F4's soon as, or the fades will have taken down the cc and ip's =(
so i go gorg instead and let my babies to the work, alot more fun
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just last night I was on a team of marines. 2 of us against 4 aliens. Our commander had ditched early. The aliens killd us both and decided to toy with us. Well, that was a bad move because we took advantage of it. We let them think they were toying with us while we watched the resources slowly grow. Then, we slapped down a bunch of turrents at base, put in pahse gates, got HMG and jetpacks and went hive hunting.
It took us less than 5 minutes to wipe them out because they figured they had us. The base rush was useless because we farmed the base and they never bothered with ive defenses. Sometimes staying is worth it.
However, if my teammate had kept running off I would have just F4'ed.
Just last night I was on a team of marines. 2 of us against 4 aliens. Our commander had ditched early. The aliens killd us both and decided to toy with us. Well, that was a bad move because we took advantage of it. We let them think they were toying with us while we watched the resources slowly grow. Then, we slapped down a bunch of turrents at base, put in pahse gates, got HMG and jetpacks and went hive hunting.
It took us less than 5 minutes to wipe them out because they figured they had us. The base rush was useless because we farmed the base and they never bothered with ive defenses. Sometimes staying is worth it.
However, if my teammate had kept running off I would have just F4'ed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right on it!
I was going to post something, but he already wrote all that I would have! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why do we even play at all? Lets just toss a coin and then the losing team all presses f4. Losing endgame can still be fun, you just need to change your perception of the game.
As well as all the other reasons above is the exploit of donating RPs (although I got kicked once for arguing with the admin that donating was explioting, but the dev teams recent comments and patch additions have vindicated me).
However, when you are losing and the enemy team is toying with you (by design or incompetance), it's often the only way to get to the next map and try again. I've been in too many games where the marines are getting hammered, but the aliens seem to fear to actually mount an agressive assault on the comm (or even to set clawed foot into the spawn area), but are content to make lame hit and runs into the marine spawn, draggin on the game for 30+ minutes. All the marines are looking at each other wondering why the #$%# they just dont finish us off, we've made our peace with God hours ago, I think He may be getting impatient, coz I told Him I'd be there real soon...
For marines, hitting f4 is like the Strategic officer deciding, that's enough, I'm not sending any more troops over to that ship to die. Just arm the nukes and blow it out of the sky already... But too often, immature players decide, to bug out when things even look bad (they have seiges, hit f4 it's all over!... But, we have Onos....).
There is no real corrolation with the kharaa side, they SHOULD fight to the very last skulk, due to their nature.
Voting to concede is a better option (and it should say Prep the Nuke (stay on your last life, no more respawning) or Last Stand (fight to the bitter end) as your choices...)
If you want a way to concede, then for crying out loud, institute a voting system.
If you wanna chat in the RR, rejoin the server, or leave if it's full so that PLAYERS can join.
If you wanna donate res points, you are exploiting and a cheater. Stop it.
If you wanna get out of the structure you are stuck in, type kill (it has advantages over f4ing, especially if you are kharaa and dont want to lose all of your rps).
There is no reason for the f4 button.
I think that should make my position clear...
(Wow, that's almost a rant...)
Due to it's team play orientation games can go on for much longer that they rightfully should when one team or the other is very bad in the team play department. I don't mind losing if the game was fast and furious, I don't like winning in the first 10 minutes, I also don't like waiting for 30 minutes for HA/HMG HA/NADE marines to finally come to the last hive to take it out, or for the fades to get enough res to go onos when it is clear the game tide will not shift back the other way.
F4 serves a useful purpose, don't seek to criple that purpose.
It's the same for me, I see more toying towards the Kharaa from the Marine team than vice versa. The turret farming gets a tad annoying after awhile, the Marines just sit around camping their bases, it gets tiresome. I know I've F4'd on Eclipse just because of that. They had CC and Main., they spent an hour sitting in their bases, not even attacking unless provoked, trying to get every little upgrade and turrets all over. I got annoyed at one point after numerous complaints to Marines about it that resulted in nothing but my F4. Anytime someone on the Kharaa says not to kill the spawn I will typically ignore them, unless it's a Gorge who wants to stick up about 8 OCs (Which will kill the portal in no-time mind you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still don't find it a significant enough feature to keep activated for long into the game though. True someone can retry or go to another server but there are more variables to consider there. There are a lot of empty servers out there, the ones that aren't empty are typically full, it can be a pain and even more time-consuming to find a new server. Retrying can also cause you to lose your spot on a full server, god knows there is always someone out there monitoring the server for an open slot <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
If the game truly *is* lost, ie: you have NO chance to make a comeback, I don't mind if you f4, I will. The problem is just that the point where the game is lost is obviously very different for people. f4-ing just because you only have a 20% chance of winning is a loser attitude.
As marine the end is usually quicker, bilebombs and onos in base makes short work of everything, no need to f4 since it will be over in a couple of minutes anyway and who knows, you might knife an onos. As alien it's a bit different since often the marines take forever to get the third hive down. Here's when I f4 as alien:
Marines have 2 hives. Two TF's in each base and lots (8+) turrets as well as siege and phase gate. I've seen comebacks from everything else, and COMEBACKS are the BEST part of playing NS, using F4 will mean you don't experience them.
If a team loses by all pressing F4 then as punishment everyone in the readyroom should spawn into the base/hive of the winning team unable to do anything so the winning team can shoot them all down in a humiliating way ;D This would make the winning team feel a lot more satisfied about their win.
Anyway it doesn't have to be exactly like that, but *something* to make the winning team feel more satisfied after the other team F4's would be nice. I could probably think of something better...like:
The team that went to readyroom spawns like chickens for the other team to hunt down.
You get the idea ;-)
I have F4ed couple of times and i have fought to the end more than i have given up. Once i F4ed because some other people had done it, and marines were enjoying only to frag us with their HA/hmg/gl stuff ;P. It took SO long. I have no problem with it, i can see why people like to F4. New game/New change of winning and hopefully better commander.
NS is a strategy game. A first person strategy game with strong emphasis on teamplay, yes, but a strategy game still. Can anyone name a single strategy game that does not have some type of surrender function? No one can, because there aren't any. Strategy games need such a function simply because of the way they play out -- it's a frequent occurrence that one side is in such a position that there is little to no way of winning. The game is already lost, simply because they are no longer any means of winning. It is no longer a possibility, merely an eventuality. Yet, the actual act of "losing" (i.e. the other team "winning") as defined by the gameplay could take significantly longer, whether intentionally (by the losing team) or not. The game is no longer fun for the losing team, because everything that makes the game fun has now become futile because the other team is too overpowering. The game is no longer fun for the winning team (unless they feed on the misery of others), because the losing team can no longer put up a good fight, one that might actually change the outcome and make the gameplay more varied, interesting and challenging.
Some could call it a gameplay flaw that lost games do not always end in a relatively short fashion, and they'd be partially right, but that's what the surrender function is there for. When it happens, just use it, and tada, instant lost.
The only real problem I see is people surrendering too quickly, before all hopes and possibilities are exhausted. But despite what many posters in this thread have stated, there IS a difference between a scrub who gives up easily and a knowledgeable player who knows he's beaten and surrenders so a fresh new game can be started.
Personally, I'd rather have scrubs who quit too early than hard headed players who make a game last 20-30 minutes longer than it should simply because they refuse to give up.
Surrendering should be legitimatized and balanced out via a voting system; don't take players out of the game just for voting to surrender -- too many of their teammates might disagree.
Remember that at any time there's always a hope....
I saw a lot of games where the aliens have 2 hives, or the marines have 2 hives, then they loose because of the resistance and the "team spirit"...
You haven't saw it's when the situation is very hard, then the team (in public server) become to be a real team, they say attack this point, then every body do this, then they take this point etc...
Winning it's great, loosing is not boring...
Though a new game comes up.. the last game isn't finished...
You shouldn't have to sell your soul until the rounds over. Sometimes I go readyroom to meet friends or tell someone something, or teach them binding.
For the rest...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't find the end-game to be fun at all, no matter if I am winning or losing. The trend of people giving up too easily (Fade, gg) is a bit pathetic, fortunately it's not that widespread on the server I play at.
If the game truly *is* lost, ie: you have NO chance to make a comeback, I don't mind if you f4, I will. The problem is just that the point where the game is lost is obviously very different for people. f4-ing just because you only have a 20% chance of winning is a loser attitude.
As marine the end is usually quicker, bilebombs and onos in base makes short work of everything, no need to f4 since it will be over in a couple of minutes anyway and who knows, you might knife an onos. As alien it's a bit different since often the marines take forever to get the third hive down. Here's when I f4 as alien:
Marines have 2 hives. Two TF's in each base and lots (8+) turrets as well as siege and phase gate. I've seen comebacks from everything else, and COMEBACKS are the BEST part of playing NS, using F4 will mean you don't experience them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stoneburg, here, speaks as though he is me.