Natural Selection 1 vs Natural Selection 2

1235»

Comments

  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members Posts: 1,191 Advanced user
    It doesn't even make sense imo that cysts can't climb. I mean infestation is spreading the whole room, also the ceiling. Cysts really shouldn't depend on nav mesh.

    commandrs would need a spectator style freeroam view if the game ever stopped being strictly top down

    That would be cool, but not necessary. I am just talking about removing the restriction for cysts to only work on nav mesh. You could still drop it normally on the floor, but you could also place it on objects and you could climb things with the infestation.

    makes sense i guess but what would be the purpose of this? structures can only be dropped on the navmesh, if you cyst to unreachable areas then you gain nothing from it. If you remove the navmesh requirement for structures then you completely change the meta of the game.
    AQ-Brainfood
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    The purpose would be that you would have more possibilities designing a room or corridor. For example you would be able to place infestation through vents... You couldn't drop structures there because there is no nav mesh, yea, but you can put them in the next room where the vents lead to.

    Also, yes, I would love removing nav mesh requirements for structures, but I would also love a complete change of the meta. Whips on walls? Yes please. Gorge tunnels on ceilings? Nice. Sadly some maps would need some rework if those things would be implemented.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Gorges also used to be able to place cysts to help the commander expand or fix disconnected infestation.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 3,432 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Gorges also used to be able to place cysts to help the commander expand or fix disconnected infestation.

    1 pres for a cyst (I assume)? Eh....
    76561197996992409.png
    Mouse
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,567 mod
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Gorges also used to be able to place cysts to help the commander expand or fix disconnected infestation.

    1 pres for a cyst (I assume)? Eh....

    "Please wait, one of our gorges will be with you shortly..."
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    Kouji_SanHandschuh
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited April 2018
    Infestation used to be patches placed by the Khamander and only the Gorge could minicysts to fix the "holes". These patches could literally be placed anywhere, even in the main base of the marines, preventing them from being able to build anything. Also the infestation could only be removed using flamethrowers, making it impossible to remove it at the start of the game :trollface: Little did the Kharaa knew they were due for a "firmware upgrade" once Charlie saw this in action!

    Ah good ol' Rockdown and Junction were still the only maps when the game was still in this state :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    edited April 2018
    moultano wrote: »
    While I would like those things in Ns2 and used them extensively in the NS map I made, they generally didn't make for high quality games. The maps in heavy rotation in NS were similar in architecture to NS2 maps. The maps that heavily used water, elevators, ladders, multiple levels, were either simplified over time to remove them, or got played less.

    After 2.0 sure. Before 2.0 was a completely different game. These slow moving elevators such as on Nothing or revolving door on Bast tended to slow down gameplay at that location and create a standoff that would become entrenched by static defenses, phase gates, DCs, webs etc. A kind of trench warfare with players testing the other's defenses with some regularity or just standing back and spamming grenades, spores, acid and healing/welding, hoping to win by attrition. Occasionally interspersed with a sneaky phasegate, base rush or vent jetpacker that would distract attention and players trying to sneakily down some res nodes. Individual skill was never unimportant, but it was just so much less at a premium than in 2.0 and beyond.

    2.0 nerfed static defenses and put a large premium on speed and agility which is what competitive players liked. A lot of players actually left NS after 2.0 and never came back; just a lot more new players discovered the game and took their place.

    I didn't expect NS 2.0 to be such a completely different game and it took me quite a while to learn to like it again after 2.0.
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members Posts: 1,191 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.
    AQ-Brainfood
    Kouji_SanNordic
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    Either way, we have the technology.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    .trixX.Kouji_San
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Yea but you could easily solve this issue with a gorge tunnel group or something in the editor, so it can be exactly specified on which geo and props a tunnel could be droppable, so you could exclude vents and unfair spots, but include walls and ceilings.
    .trixX.Kouji_San
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Yea but you could easily solve this issue with a gorge tunnel group or something in the editor, so it can be exactly specified on which geo and props a tunnel could be droppable, so you could exclude vents and unfair spots, but include walls and ceilings.

    That's actually already done using the tunnel texture.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 727 Advanced user
    edited April 2018
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Yea but you could easily solve this issue with a gorge tunnel group or something in the editor, so it can be exactly specified on which geo and props a tunnel could be droppable, so you could exclude vents and unfair spots, but include walls and ceilings.

    That's actually already done using the tunnel texture.

    And yet there are still a ton of places where you should be able to set a tunnel but can't... For instance stability on caged.. In half the room you can't drop your tunnel because it's "blueprint" (for lack of a better word) is red.

    I really wish they had just fixed the 4-5 glitched spots that people were abusing, because with the way they "fixed" that problem they literally removed hundreds of other places where you should be able to drop a tunnel.

    It was a change that really made tunnels boring imo, as the only "correct" way to place them these days seem to be
    - From hive to hive
    - Right next to a res node
    - Near the marine base for a rush


    And tunnels on walls is something I've thought NS2 should have from the first day I played it.
    .trixX.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    And yet there are still a ton of places where you should be able to set a tunnel but can't... For instance stability on caged.. In half the room you can't drop your tunnel because it's "blueprint" (for lack of a better word) is red.

    If you post some screenshots or descriptions, the mappers could fix it.
    Nordic
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 190 Advanced user
    Oh damn just had a thought. Tunnels exiting on ceilings. That would be insane! REAL RUSHES AND NO BACKING OUT YA LILY LIVER'D [email protected]! Now we just need spider gorges from seige mode and this will come full circle.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    skav2 wrote: »
    Oh damn just had a thought. Tunnels exiting on ceilings. That would be insane! REAL RUSHES AND NO BACKING OUT YA LILY LIVER'D [email protected]! Now we just need spider gorges from seige mode and this will come full circle.

    An explosive diarrhoea of kharra? COUNT ME IN!
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 190 Advanced user

    skav2 wrote: »
    Oh damn just had a thought. Tunnels exiting on ceilings. That would be insane! REAL RUSHES AND NO BACKING OUT YA LILY LIVER'D [email protected]! Now we just need spider gorges from seige mode and this will come full circle.


    An explosive diarrhoea of kharra? COUNT ME IN!

    *high fives*
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Yea but you could easily solve this issue with a gorge tunnel group or something in the editor, so it can be exactly specified on which geo and props a tunnel could be droppable, so you could exclude vents and unfair spots, but include walls and ceilings.

    That's actually already done using the tunnel texture.

    In theory yes, but if you want to include every wall and ceiling there must be a TON of additional geometry for this... which is very impractical and probably bad for performance. Also right now, a tunnel exit can't point sideways or downwards which would need to get fixed first.
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members Posts: 1,191 Advanced user
    edited April 2018
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Cysts and gorge tunnels used to be able to be put on walls. I seem to remember whips on walls too...

    i remember cysts on walls, tunnels could only be put on floors but any floor you liked and whips on walls i think was only in ns2 combat.

    And placed inside vents with a big ol' oops from the devs when it was discovered :D

    Yea but you could easily solve this issue with a gorge tunnel group or something in the editor, so it can be exactly specified on which geo and props a tunnel could be droppable, so you could exclude vents and unfair spots, but include walls and ceilings.

    That's actually already done using the tunnel texture.

    In theory yes, but if you want to include every wall and ceiling there must be a TON of additional geometry for this... which is very impractical and probably bad for performance. Also right now, a tunnel exit can't point sideways or downwards which would need to get fixed first.

    It is certainly within the realms of possibility to make this happen, however im not convinced it should happen. Clearing a tunnel in c12 for example can be difficult even when its only placed in a reachable area. Having tunnels placed on walls would either mean adjusting the way tunnels work so they can be placed anywhere which would result in some unforseen consequences and exploitable placements or the entire walls would need to have the tunnel texture applied to areas that tunnels can be allowed. Either way is bad imo. Also the fact that Gorges are floor based creatures and often use their tunnels to hide in means placing tunnels on walls would likely only be done for sneaky base rushes which imo isnt something that should be supported.
    AQ-Brainfood
  • xtalxtal aka X-rayCat Join Date: 2009-06-28 Member: 67961Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 74 Advanced user
    I totally agree with above. NS2 restricts gameplay taking some of the fun off of the game.

    Missing from NS1:
    - relocate to any point on map as marines.
    - build way more alien structures in every spot of map, this way you were changing map gameplay and you could just play as builder. It attracted players that like minecraft kind of games.
    - more interaction with map, weldable, elevators, doors. Exploring map felt like you're on real ship. In NS2 map is just arena to fight.


    Not missing:
    - harder marine commander
    - stationary ARCs
    - crappy cloack (NS2 cloack is superb!)
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,479 Advanced user
    xtal wrote: »
    Not missing:
    ...
    - stationary ARCs

    I've never really enjoyed a siege in ns2. They could be incredibly fun to attack and defend in ns1.
    mattji104
Sign In or Register to comment.