Don't touch that move rate

NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 348 Advanced user
It's relatively common knowledge in the server operator community that you probably shouldn't change the tick rate, move rate, or send rate of NS2 (The server browser pops up a warning when players try to join a server with non-default rates). The reasons were never very clear to me, but after some testing it seems that some of NS2's code is rate-dependant. I've tried various rates and found that certain things are significantly impacted by changes to move rate.

For example, I can unload the pistol mag with a scroll bind in 1.4 seconds at the default move rate of 26. If I decrease the move rate to 21, that number seems to jump up to around 1.8 seconds, which in most NS2 gameplay is a significant decrease in effectiveness. It feels like shooting in molasses. But if I go in the other direction and increase the move rate up to 52 (double the default rate) I was able to empty the magazine in around 1.1 seconds.

I've found other issues relating to the "flinch" effect and the minigun heat, but I haven't investigated this too much.

Comments

  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Thanks for testing I guess but yes.. server ops are well aware that moverate is tied to some game logic and some other stuff which hasnt been tested on highly changed rates in eons.
    Also most servers would flat out die on 52 mr.
    Other factors come into play but yes.. known. :)
    NS2
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    NS2 Server Maintenance Manual
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  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 348 Advanced user
    You would think that the comp mod servers would use a consistent move rate due to how it impacts balance, but I see some are 26, some are 30, and one is 40.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,683 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Ghoul had a nice comment on that.
    ...
    Though we have been working on optimizing the game logic code in the last year and hope to get those changes out after the 64bit migration has been done.

    However there is another reason most who have tried increased rates discarded the idea after testing. There is a lot of game logic code that was not written with the possibility of higher tick rates in mind. So e.g. you have logic routines causing players to take twice as much damage over time when the tickrate gets doubled. To really support higher update rates those lines of codes need to be fixed as well.
    ...

    You can read the full comment here.
    Nintendows wrote: »
    You would think that the comp mod servers would use a consistent move rate due to how it impacts balance, but I see some are 26, some are 30, and one is 40.
    As I understand it, higher moverate feels better to play with even if it breaks things. Until I read ghouls post I didn't know it actually broke things too. They might not know that either.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 438 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    The server browser pops up a warning when players try to join a server with non-default rates).

    Depends on how you change the values, there are 3 ways that i know of to change the rates only 1 of which pops up that you have joined a server with non-default rates :) some server ops have no idea what they're doing though, not really an issue TBH, don't see many problems.

    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 348 Advanced user
    Archie wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    The server browser pops up a warning when players try to join a server with non-default rates).

    Depends on how you change the values, there are 3 ways that i know of to change the rates only 1 of which pops up that you have joined a server with non-default rates :) some server ops have no idea what they're doing though, not really an issue TBH, don't see many problems.

    How can you change the rates without having that warning pop up?
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Does it matter? The advised way is shine.
    Its easiest, more manageable, could be on the fly set and you should be running shine anyway.

    And yes, the server ops from the biggest communities do know about rates or at least where to check or ask.
    Competitive, last I asked (or last they asked me) is testing with some custom rates. It makes sense. Has not been done in a very very long time.

    Upping the move rate can indeed 'feel' better, although its hard to say if thats real or a placebo affect. Because even doubling the mr would give roughly 10ms input delay reduction, assuming all the changes over the years still make initial documentation accurate. :)
    NS2
    Old/resigned Dutch Translation Lead. Give feedback about the translation, or help improve by clicking: Current NS2 Dutch translation project. Dutch players apply!
    NS2 Server Maintenance Manual
    WorkshopBackup Manual (WSB Server)
    Ingame: DCDarkling
    'DCDs Steam Workshop', for your NS2 X-Hairs and Viewmodel Weapon mods
    Viewmodels are the ones you hold in your hand, not the one shown in the world!

    Old NS2 Stuff:
    Marine Commander Guide NS2
    Alien Commander Guide NS2
    NS2 Mentor Program
    Old NS1 stuff:
    'Infested Pack v0.6' for models & props
    Darklings Guide to Commanding Version 1.001
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 348 Advanced user
    Does it matter? The advised way is shine.
    Its easiest, more manageable, could be on the fly set and you should be running shine anyway.

    If I can make it easier and less scary for people to join my server, that would be the best way.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 438 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    [DELETE THIS POST]
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
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