Should they keep the Dive Reel?

2

Comments

  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    zetachron wrote: »
    1.) I don't get it that the devs don't use gamplay statistics on the use of the players items. I always thought they already had their statistics and could see what item is used and what not. How else could they see if a certain item is never used at all and when to cut it? Or find out that most players like a certain item and then spend more development on creating more things like it.

    Couldn't that reasoning go the other way too? Like, if people use it, it's good as it is. If people don't use it, that's what needs more work.
  • LorebotLorebot Join Date: 2017-08-08 Member: 232304Members Posts: 7 Fully active user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    I'd be interested to hear what the devs' ideas and/or intentions are at this point concerning the dive reel.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members Posts: 623 Advanced user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    The dive reel is a bit awkward to use. As with others, I found it most useful with initial Jelly Shroom Cave diving, but that was when tanks in inventory could be used automatically. Even with the triple capacity of the more recent tanks, swapping is awkward, especially as you can't see how much oxygen is in tanks without equipping them in the paperdoll model.

    I did try using it in wrecks and it was a bit strange, but it kind of worked, anchoring part of the cable as you swam through doors and passages while the line was paying out. However, going back was weird as the line couldn't be picked up.

    To properly work, it does need work. But I'd like to see it kept in the game.
    The 'e' is silent. BRING BACK "Great job not dying." !!!
    Timelord_Fred
  • supertiger2340supertiger2340 Eugene OR USA Join Date: 2017-07-21 Member: 231956Members Posts: 115 Advanced user
  • gbuzz1216gbuzz1216 Join Date: 2017-03-09 Member: 228771Members Posts: 45 Advanced user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    I was very lost in the sea castle thing where the thermal plant is, but then I crafted one and it helps me a lot
    Timelord_Fred
  • BDelacroixBDelacroix Florida Join Date: 2016-04-08 Member: 215511Members Posts: 90 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    I don't use it because it doesn't do what a dive reel does. It clips through objects and so doesn't lead you back to where you anchored it.
  • matt0677matt0677 UK Join Date: 2017-09-03 Member: 232787Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    I think it could work like the O2 lines in Astroneer. Use the gun part to nail anchors into the wall at regular intervals. If the line "clips" too much or is too far from the last one, then it can't be placed. If the anchors glowed a bit that would be nice. I that case the line itself might not be needed, just the anchors.

    Some of the code from pipes might be transferrable?
    dealwithitdog
  • BelgarelBelgarel Join Date: 2017-07-03 Member: 231570Members, Subnautica Developer Posts: 115 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    The dive reel would be really cool to explore wrecks with so you'd not get lost, but as-is it's so broken that I found it useless. If not fixing it, just remove it.
  • KurasuKurasu Join Date: 2017-06-24 Member: 231322Members Posts: 274 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    If the issues could be fixed, I would uncategorically say 'Keep it in'. However, the devs themselves have mentioned that they're not sure they can fix it. Therefore, my recommendation would be to remove it. At the moment, between the clipping, the doubling back, the unhelpful way it doesn't lead you around but rather gets stuck on/in things, it actually makes it almost *more* confusing to maneuvar with it than without it, say nothing of trying to find your way back to the anchor point and hoping it hasn't gotten lost or clipped through things.

    I crafted it all of once, but the clipping and confusing weave of ropes it made because of trying to explore a bit made it impossible to utilize properly, and trying to retrieve it to start again just tied things up tighter. When a tool becomes more harm than it is helpful, if it can't be fixed in 1.0, it should probably be removed (and potentially added back in in the future if DLC is being crafted).

    Make it into glowing blocks/ropes that can be dropped in a row or something. It would lead people just as easily, not clip into things, and make it more 'customizable' for people who need a lot of reminder of which way to go, or just which corners to turn at.
    0x6A7232
  • HaliosHalios Oz Join Date: 2015-11-27 Member: 209514Members Posts: 249 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    If it's problematic to fix, I say ditch it. I've never used it.

    Are there any sufficiently complex wrecks or cave systems to really justify it?

    Possible alternative - adhesive dual-coloured glowing stickers. Say blue and red. You place the first sticker and it's blue. After that every sticker you place has a glowing blue arrow and a glowing red arrow. The game automatically orients each successive sticker based on the previous one, so the second sticker will point its blue arrow in the direction of the previous sticker. And so on. So you can follow the blue arrows to safety and air. Or follow red to retrace your path.

    If you end up going down a dead end, just pick up those stickers on the way back. Maybe also create a few other stickers so we can mark dead ends (red x?) and the like. Perhaps it could use the same R / reload UI but instead of checking the inventory for batteries, it lets you cycle between different sticker types.
  • ZeddIsDeadZeddIsDead Australia Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216029Members Posts: 50 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Not only is it useless, but it also clips through terrain, ruining Subnautica's great atmosphere.

    Maybe tiny stackable short-range beacon buoys instead? So you can leave a trail of breadcrumbs.
  • Alrekr_IronhandAlrekr_Ironhand New Hampshire, US Join Date: 2016-03-22 Member: 214677Members Posts: 107 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    I don't really have a horse in this race. But I've never used the dive reel, and by the sound of it it's so buggy it doesn't work for its intended purpose anyway. So I guess I'd come down on the side of 'remove it, it's no use'.

    There's the "crafting ingredient for the grappling arm" argument, sure. But let's face it, a lot of Subnautica recipes make little or no sense. Copper and acid to make batteries? Why not lead and acid? It'd give another use for lead, which currently you'll only ever use to make your radiation suit. And polyaniline? Gold and hydrochloric acid makes polyaniline? Seriously? Benzene and nitric acid might almost be plausible, but hydrochloric acid and GOLD? To make a phenyl/amino compound? "The science of chemistry is here to see you. It says it wants a few words, and it looks mad."
    Timelord_FredJacke
  • The08MetroidManThe08MetroidMan Join Date: 2016-09-23 Member: 222527Members Posts: 214 Advanced user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    zetachron wrote: »
    1.) I don't get it that the devs don't use gamplay statistics on the use of the players items. I always thought they already had their statistics and could see what item is used and what not. How else could they see if a certain item is never used at all and when to cut it? Or find out that most players like a certain item and then spend more development on creating more things like it.

    Couldn't that reasoning go the other way too? Like, if people use it, it's good as it is. If people don't use it, that's what needs more work.

    That's more or less what I'd feel, too. Personally speaking, the dive reel was a very useful tool in the early stages of my new save-game, when I lacked the expanded oxygen tank and rebreather needed for deeper exploration. Hooking it to the upper cliffs, it helped me to explore areas that would normally have been inaccessible to me like the Sparse Reef's crevices, the Jellyshroom Cave's entrances, the Floating Island's deep but relatively straightforward caves or the small caves full of resources near the Kelp Forests - especially since, with how much space the Seaglide takes up, I was always half-tempted to leave it behind on resource-gathering runs so that I'd actually have the room needed for resources.

    Additionally, having it be added into the recipe for the grapple-arm on the PRAWN would feel like a natural progression of equipment upgrades, at least in my opinion; better gear requires you take what you have and make something better with it.
  • baronvonsatanbaronvonsatan TX, USA Join Date: 2016-12-01 Member: 224415Members Posts: 505 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    I don't really have a horse in this race. But I've never used the dive reel, and by the sound of it it's so buggy it doesn't work for its intended purpose anyway. So I guess I'd come down on the side of 'remove it, it's no use'.

    There's the "crafting ingredient for the grappling arm" argument, sure. But let's face it, a lot of Subnautica recipes make little or no sense. Copper and acid to make batteries? Why not lead and acid? It'd give another use for lead, which currently you'll only ever use to make your radiation suit. And polyaniline? Gold and hydrochloric acid makes polyaniline? Seriously? Benzene and nitric acid might almost be plausible, but hydrochloric acid and GOLD? To make a phenyl/amino compound? "The science of chemistry is here to see you. It says it wants a few words, and it looks mad."

    Lead is also useful for crafting reactor rods. As for the problems with chemistry-- you must not have been around when "Magnesium" was Salt x 3...
    This is dumb, but a click a day helps me out a little.
  • baronvonsatanbaronvonsatan TX, USA Join Date: 2016-12-01 Member: 224415Members Posts: 505 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    gbuzz1216 wrote: »
    I was very lost in the sea castle thing where the thermal plant is, but then I crafted one and it helps me a lot

    You are all gonna laugh when you hear how I avoid getting lost in there-- I build a thermal reactor outside, then I plant power transmitters and follow the blue light back out.
    This is dumb, but a click a day helps me out a little.
    Timelord_Fred
  • Timelord_FredTimelord_Fred Join Date: 2017-07-05 Member: 231596Members Posts: 264 Advanced user
    Keep the Dive Reel
    gbuzz1216 wrote: »
    I was very lost in the sea castle thing where the thermal plant is, but then I crafted one and it helps me a lot

    You are all gonna laugh when you hear how I avoid getting lost in there-- I build a thermal reactor outside, then I plant power transmitters and follow the blue light back out.

    What if the dive reel had little post you put down to anchor the line in a way similar to this? It would fix the clipping issue. Plus a lot of the code could be taken from the power transmitter.
  • Quantum_AnomalyQuantum_Anomaly Join Date: 2016-06-13 Member: 218496Members Posts: 20 Advanced user
    edited September 2017
    I'm having a real hard time on this one. The dive real, as is, with only physics/bug improvements, really isn't enough to get me to want to use it. As others have said, the line is too short and the visibility is low, even with bug fixes I wouldn't want it.

    HOWEVER, if it was re-imagined, for it's low construction cost I could see it being extremely useful. Take, for instance, if it worked more like a fluorescent neon fiber-line that you could anchor multiple times, allowing you to draw on the surface of things. Make the line take up less room in your inventory but only allow it to dispense a limited amount of "line" before being used up and having to be refilled or just re-crafted.

    Now you have a waterproof "spray paint" that you can lay down. Leave yourself arrows, or even short words, without having to use bouys. They glow at night, are highly visible, and are useful for more than just navigating. Hell, you could even decorate your base with line art graffiti or glowing rave lights, and it could come in 3 colors for added usefulness in navigating/art.

    If you give me something that adds to my freedom in game, that allows me to use my own ingenuity to help me survive, then yes, keep it.

    If you give me something that must be used one way to work, and limits my ability to think for myself and help me survive, then ditch it.

    Edit: Also, +1 for requiring it for the grapple on the prawn, but only if it's useful otherwise.
  • AnomalyDetectedAnomalyDetected Alterra Housing District: Planet Vicaron Join Date: 2017-04-19 Member: 229741Members Posts: 768 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Most of us are hardcore Subnautica players.

    We know where everything is.

    And it's so easy to search for everything. The places are so obvious: Jellyshroom caves are in the Grassy Plateaus, the lost river is just under the Deep Grand Reef or through a Blood Kelp.

    This is so buggy and now it's useless to us. I litterally have not made one ever in the months to year I've owned this game and I doubt you guys have really used it that much. Sure, some of you enjoy using it, but nah, I dislike it.
    ================Anom================
    "Open windows, closing doors,
    God can't help us anymore!
    Souls forever, come and go,
    Burn all the bridges and fire in the hole!"
    ================Anom================
  • Quantum_AnomalyQuantum_Anomaly Join Date: 2016-06-13 Member: 218496Members Posts: 20 Advanced user
    *Quantum Anomaly shows up*

    *Immediately gets detected*

    *Runs*
  • The08MetroidManThe08MetroidMan Join Date: 2016-09-23 Member: 222527Members Posts: 214 Advanced user
    edited September 2017
    Keep the Dive Reel
    Most of us are hardcore Subnautica players.

    We know where everything is.

    How does that help anyone new to the game - all the people who haven't gotten into this yet, are just getting into it or are waiting for the 1.0 full-game release to get into it?

    No offense, but the game wasn't made purely for the people who were with it from the start; it's supposed to be accessible to everyone who wants to play it. If you don't like the dive reel, okay than; that's your preference. But please, don't make it an issue of what best suits the hardcore players as opposed to the whole of the game itself - what's done with it should be based on whether it's good for gameplay as a whole, not whether or not it best suits one single group of players.

    On that count, the dive reel could become a very good early-game item if modified a bit better - longer reach, better retraction speed, etc.
    Jacke
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Members Posts: 495 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Personally I don't really think the Dive Reel is super useful even for new players. Maybe for those first 30 minutes to an hour where you don't really know what you're doing or you don't an oxygen tank yet, but other than that I don't really think there are enough areas like long, winding caves that would make the Dive Reel useful (most of the smaller caves are really short and most of the larger caves big enough to easily tell where everything is from a glance.) Maybe I'd want it more if fixing it was an easy task, but right now it just seems like a better idea to toss it.


  • Hulkie2345Hulkie2345 New York Join Date: 2017-08-23 Member: 232598Members Posts: 276 Advanced user
    edited September 2017
    Keep the Dive Reel
    I'm in the middle. I want the Dive Reel to be removed. Because it doesn't do the function that people wanted it to do. Ignoring the bugs it has. Basically people want it attached to the player. Connect to any surface (Cyclops, animal etc.), and when you push a button, pull the player all the way back to start. It should be a larger device with a full battery operated motor. Kind of like a core sample drill. Maybe include a beacon marker built in. I've only ever made the item once, over a year ago. Never bothered with it again. If they make a Dive Reel 2.0 I'd want it back. If they don't want to improve it. It's not worth keeping. Even if they fix the bugs.
  • AnomalyDetectedAnomalyDetected Alterra Housing District: Planet Vicaron Join Date: 2017-04-19 Member: 229741Members Posts: 768 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Most of us are hardcore Subnautica players.

    We know where everything is.

    How does that help anyone new to the game - all the people who haven't gotten into this yet, are just getting into it or are waiting for the 1.0 full-game release to get into it?

    No offense, but the game wasn't made purely for the people who were with it from the start; it's supposed to be accessible to everyone who wants to play it. If you don't like the dive reel, okay than; that's your preference. But please, don't make it an issue of what best suits the hardcore players as opposed to the whole of the game itself - what's done with it should be based on whether it's good for gameplay as a whole, not whether or not it best suits one single group of players.

    On that count, the dive reel could become a very good early-game item if modified a bit better - longer reach, better retraction speed, etc.

    I realize exactly what you mean. But even then, people won't need it if they can find their way out easy anyway. And if they drown due to low oxygen, then it's kinda their fault for not leaving quickly. Barley anyone dies of drowning because they lost their way.

    But even then, you may say they do a lot and rebuttal my argument. But look, people don't see a use for it anymore. It just outlived it's prime, and even like the dev said. It's buggy and breaks a lot. It honestly outlived its use.

    Also you didn't respond to the whole thing, only one of my points. Why you do dis.
    ================Anom================
    "Open windows, closing doors,
    God can't help us anymore!
    Souls forever, come and go,
    Burn all the bridges and fire in the hole!"
    ================Anom================
  • magus104magus104 usa Join Date: 2017-09-08 Member: 232872Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    I think the dive reel was a cool concept but the clipping through walls and the fact you the finishing anchor doesnt seem to stick makes it useless. I tried using it to help me navigate through the cave to get to the thermal plant because i was making a base down there and was taking many trips back and forth through it. Though the air piping system is equally useless. perhaps instead of the dive reel maybe just have a marking a path. in most games like this i would use torches to mark my way. maybe some kind of smaller light posts or like glow sticks we can stab into the ground.

    I found in my first and only play through so far that i didnt use half the items that were available because there wasnt any promting or need for most of them. though i found the gravity sphere would have been amazingly useful early on especially when mining i couldnt even get the prawn suit due to the glitch and by the time i finally made one there was no need to even really mine though i did anyway just to horde stuff
  • The08MetroidManThe08MetroidMan Join Date: 2016-09-23 Member: 222527Members Posts: 214 Advanced user
    edited September 2017
    Keep the Dive Reel
    I realize exactly what you mean. But even then, people won't need it if they can find their way out easy anyway. And if they drown due to low oxygen, then it's kinda their fault for not leaving quickly. Barley anyone dies of drowning because they lost their way.

    But even then, you may say they do a lot and rebuttal my argument. But look, people don't see a use for it anymore. It just outlived it's prime, and even like the dev said. It's buggy and breaks a lot. It honestly outlived its use.

    Also you didn't respond to the whole thing, only one of my points. Why you do dis.

    Again, that's assuming people can in fact find their way out easily; there's no guarantee of that actually being the case. Not with the caves, not with the canyons and especially not with the wrecks - especially when players can no longer carry extra oxygen tanks. To say it's "their fault" is to grossly overestimate or generalize how easy and/or difficult something in the game is - it's inherently unfair, if not outright biased, to think something you consider easily avoidable is the same for everyone else.

    Case in point; I am not a very good gamer, and as such I have repeatedly drowned for the exact reason that I lost my way in caves or wrecks, either getting turned around or spending too much time diving on the (mis)assumption I'd reached the end when there was still a ton of cave/corridor left to go. But in regards to exploring canyons like the Sparse Reef or the Crash Zone, this problem ended when I got the dive reel - it was easier to get back to where I parked my vehicles and where the closest point to the surface was.

    So again, your argument comes down to the same thing; an assumption based purely on the veteran players who've either (A) spent so long at the game they know it like the back of their hand, (B) are very good gamers in general or (C) both. Your argument comes across as invalid because it seems purely based on a single POV or personal context, rather than addressing any actual in-game reason for why it should or shouldn't stay - completely overlooks the situation from a casual perspective and whether or not it can help them. You say "a lot of people", but it doesn't feel like you're actually going beyond what a single group feels. Hell, even arguing the "people don't see a use for it anymore/it honestly outlived its use" claim falls flat, too, since a lot of the items in-game don't always see a whole lot of use (cured food, anyone?).

    Also, I did actually respond to the whole thing; I just snipped your quote down to avoid clutter. Pretty much everyone and their mother rails at me for making posts that go overboard on the quotes and strain the eyes reading it - but even when they're trimmed, it seems people still take issue...
    Jacke
  • DOHsubnautica2017DOHsubnautica2017 Dayton Ohio USA Join Date: 2017-09-08 Member: 232885Members Posts: 1 Fully active user
    Perhaps a simple "marker" would be more practical? Something that would allow the diver to "tag" a surface in the manner that some games allow decals. It could be an arrow with a modifiable direction. I have not used the line at all - it has never appealed to me as an idea, but I am fairly new to the game and perhaps I have had to worry about getting lost on long explorations. I finished the Aurora exploration, but was able to navigate without issue.

    The game already has a labeling system. Perhaps that could be altered to accommodate this task?

    Regarding the issue of vehicle oxygen - why not add filters to the system? You would have a longer span of oxygen use, but there would be a tech tree and achievement based method for the diver to implement the fix.
  • ArkainerArkainer España Join Date: 2017-08-29 Member: 232720Members Posts: 5 Fully active user
    edited September 2017
    I am somehow a new player, already finished the storyline (60+ hours so far) but I've only played for one week or so. At the very beginning I was super scared of everything and I was scared of large wrecks so I ended up building dive reel only to find myself traped again in a wreck, because it was goeing through all the walls. That was a big dissapointment but even then it helped A LITTLE BIT to make it out of the wreck.

    I think they shoulkd keep it if they have plans (not now) to fix it, I like it and I can think of some situations where it can come handly, at least for new players. Or as they say, they could remove it and keep it for a later upgrade when it is not that buggy, as I agree with many of you who think they should focus on performance upgrades and some more important things.
  • Amazing_AquacatAmazing_Aquacat North Texas Join Date: 2017-05-22 Member: 230676Members Posts: 31 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Sorry for the Necrons post, but having started playing again and reading the forums I had an interesting idea related to this. I've used the dive reel a few times and as everyone knows the clipping through terrain makes it pretty much useless, however I do see a need for this while wreck diving the larger wrecks. I think a compromise solution could be found in a modified flare. If I could have a flare, with a timed duration until despawn that could float where I dropped it, like beacons, I could leave a crumb trail to follow. This would make flares useful and solve the getting lost problem. Developmentalwise you should be able to piece together and modify code already in place, and working, in the game. That's the theory at least. Thoughts?
  • HYBRID1313HYBRID1313 Australia Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215179Members Posts: 332 Advanced user
    Remove the Dive Reel
    Personally I love the dive reel and its concept, although for how buggy it is I think it should be removed. If Subnautica got more advanced, complex and narrow cave systems, then I believe it should be brought back and worked on. But Subnautica doesn't have such caves, unfortunately.
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