Dealing With Ha

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">tactics?</div> Anyone care to share tactics they use against HA? Any way you can deal with them with just lerks and skulks? Anybody know of an effective way of removing them without resorting to that damn hail of acid? (me = melee fade <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>)

I can't seem to be able to drop a HA\HMG using a skulk unless he's already been hit six or seven times, and you really have to be concentrating to drop one with a melee fade. Any more suggestions? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jan 16 2003, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Anyone care to share tactics they use against HA? Any way you can deal with them with just lerks and skulks? Anybody know of an effective way of removing them without resorting to that damn hail of acid? (me = melee fade <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>)

I can't seem to be able to drop a HA\HMG using a skulk unless he's already been hit six or seven times, and you really have to be concentrating to drop one with a melee fade. Any more suggestions? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Getting near a decent HA/HMG marine is like putting your head in a blender. Not a good thing. You have to have some advanced form of alien to combat the teched marine otherwise you lose the fight 100% of the time.

Shockeh · January 2003

Errr, DON'T resort to the hail of acid. Retreat to draw him on, then double back & hit him just as he comes around a corner, melee, strafe, he will die first unless you're unlucky.

BlueGhost · January 2003

Nicators tactic with a lerk is to bounce around the HA's head biting it, the mouse controll generally messes them up so much they have trouble hitting anything, they often stop moving making themself turret bate and cos they're looking up skulks can close.

Personally I think you should pick your ground (a LONG corridor) and use focused spike fire from multiple lerks, should drop HA fairly quickly and at this point in the game res isn't generally a problem.

BlueGhost

RhoadsToNowhere · January 2003

Melee Fades actually do quite well against HA's, you just gotta take advantage of their lack of manuverability. Treat them like sentry guns and hit them on the sides and back -- anywhere, just as long as that HMG isn't pointing at you. I must've taken out about 5 HA's on one life during one recent game.

One other thing that helps is to get rid of the inevitable "welder squire" (unarmored marine who constantly welds the HA). Otherwise, most of the damage that you do is gonna be revoked pretty quickly.

ZdrozZ · January 2003

Stay away? NO, get close to him! As lerk use umbra and bite him to death, but dont creep on the floor, fly around him and stay in umbra (thats the hard part). As skulk: attack together, get close, jump a lot and strafe all the time around him. As single skulk you need a lot of luck... (or skill?)

Dead_Dragon · January 2003

Get them in a confined space and, as a Skulk, run around their feet. Dont stop moving, dont jump (surefire way of getting into their sights) dont wallwalk, just keep running around their feet in random directions, biting all the while. It's worked for me vs 2 HA/HMG marines.

Typhon · January 2003

Yeah, you just need to develop an intuitive sense of where the guy is going to point his HMG next, and NOT be there when he does. Its possible as skulk. Difficult, but possible. Fades are a bit easier to use, although you are a MUCH bigger target for him. I find that celerity is a good choice if you are going for a melee fade, as it allows you to circle strafe around the guy much faster, and escape easier if you realize you cant beat him.

Just concentrate on keeping his back towards you and you should be able to take them down.

Sycophant · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Getting near a decent HA/HMG marine is like putting your head in a blender. Not a good thing. <b>You have to have some advanced form of alien to combat the teched marine otherwise you lose the fight 100% of the time.</b></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Not necessarily. A gorge alone can take down a single HMG/HA marine, assuming two hives are up. The trick is <b>webbing</b>. I was waiting to respawn (<i>a long wait, since a crowd of us just got slaughtered</i>), and watched this amazingly good gorge stick a few webs to a HA marine, put two offense towers up, and kept spinning another few webs around him every few seconds while healspraying him to death.

I was immensely impressed, and so was the HA marine that just got beat by the most anti-combatitive alien breed available. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

BlueGhost · January 2003

The second web is available the gorge becomes the best one on one unit in the game and the best support unit aswell.

The only way to kill fades is to charge them, if there's a gorege putting a single web strand up infront of the marines who charge this results in the charging marine ending up webbed infront of a fade.

A gorge can also heal, gorge/lurk/fade combo's are the very best.

BlueGhost

Inexorable · January 2003

Ok, I assume we're talking 1 Hive vs. HA/HMG. Really all I can suggest is grouping up and ambushing them, hope to god that they aren't smart enough to travel in decent sized groups, and never stand still or move in a straight line.

Probably the best possiblity for this is to have a long range Lerk distract them with spikes while Skulks come up from behind (Silence will make this infinitely easier).

Yassum · January 2003

Well what I used on a server today was skulk, carapace and celerity, assuming two hives are up, you leap at them, bite them once or twice then leap back, changer your approach vector and repeat, use it when they try to take your little fade friend, or lerk or whatever and toss a few more bites.
It worked great for me.

carapaced skulk, celerity and leap is very fun if used for hit and run ( just don't always come from the same place, or only once u made them paranoid so they watch any entry but the one u just passed <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> power

Evil_Timmy · January 2003

For smaller hallways (IE most of the hallways in the game), I usually try to find a vent or a corner when I hear a HA marine coming. Then I bite for the feet, and run up the wall, drop down behind them, bite, and repeat. This means they're having trouble tracking me because I'm weaving across their view the whole time in a crazy pattern, it also means any backup they might have will have trouble tracking me because their body is shielding me a fair portion of the time.

sekdar · January 2003

its simple. carapace, celerity, <b>NEVER</b> stop moving, circle strafe like a madman, dont forget to jump a bit, and as was said before, keep the gun pointed away from you. difficult as a skulk since you have to make no mistakes, but as a melee fade i chew HA/HMG to pieces with minimal effort.

They can't hit you if they can't see you. They can't see you if you're moving at 50 miles/hr in a circle around them, each swipe throwing off their view and panicking them more and more as their health plummets.

Deacon · January 2003

If you know the map, hit them from behind. You're pretty much guaranteed two free bites (you need 7-10 total). It's usually not that hard to hit an HA guy from an unexpected direction, since they move so slowly. He'll have covered maybe 30 feet by the time you've circled around through the vents.

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RhoadsToNowhere @ Jan 17 2003, 05:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Treat them like sentry guns .</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's a VERY good point. Actually, that's what I kept getting hung up about when fighting HAs - it seemed like I just wasn't doing any damage. Thinking of them as turrets would help <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Windelkron · January 2003

You have to remember that it takes 10 bites to take out a HA marine (max). If he doesn't know you're there, sneak up behind him and bite him only twice. (A third bite is generally suicide.) Make sure you're in a spot where you can hide in a lot of different places (vents are good, too, especially if you know them well). Every time you come out of the vent, bite him once, and hide. Repeat enough times and you'll kill him. (get a teammate to help you out, this works as well)

AgentOrange · January 2003

One way that works well for me if I'm a skulk, is to follow one around from a safe spot where he wont notice (just use vents to spy on him). Parasite comes in handy here because then you can follow from a room behind him. Then go in and give him 2-3 bites from behind, then run off...just keep repeating the whole process, it's time consuming, but it's a big morale loss when skulks are killing your heavies. The commander will start to get REALLY frustrated with the team and start to make mistakes generally.

(sorry if this has already been said, I read like 80% of the posts thoroughly and was pressed for time so I just skimmed some)

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Jan 17 2003, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You have to remember that it takes 10 bites to take out a HA marine (max).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Wow, I didn't realise it was only ten <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Don't suppose you happen to know how many for a fully upgraded LA? I only recently realised that the armour upgrades actually make it take more than two bites (I kept thinking I was doing somehing wrong) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Deacon · January 2003

<a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104estats.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104estats.htm</a>

The time it takes to die is mostly due to inaccuracy, not lack of damage. If he only wasted 1 bullet, a marine could take out 15 skulks with his starting ammo.

Insidious · January 2003

One important thing to remember is that just becuase you didn't kill the heavy doesn't mean you didn't do a lot of good. If you land 9 of the 10 needed bites, the next skulk to come along gets a free kill. Always take out any unarmored marines first, especially if they're welding. As commander I always team up heavies together to weld each other, because an unarmored marine welding is skulk food, and now the heavy is without armor.

Don't forget to parasite heavies. Then it's easier for your team to follow up on your attacks if you didn't quite manage to kill them. It also makes it easier to hit and run against a heavy if their parasited.

If you have leap, use it to get in close, bite one to three times, then leap to safety. Heal, and repeat. If the heavies arn't healing between your hits, you can easily take them down this way (not always in one life, though. It only takes a moment of good aim or good luck to turn a skulk into a lead sponge). If you think they'll be able to heal between attacks, so it's all or nothing, leap in, and leap away and back in every now and again to keep them confused at how close you are. Leaping on to a ceiling or a wall above head height means they have to track you up and down as well as side to side, and makes them miss more, too.

Thinking of them as turrets is wonderful advice, as most of these tricks are things I do to turrets, too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

OWA · January 2003

Best way to take out a (lone) heavy is to take advantage of thier immobility. You will always move faster. Just keep whittling them down and running away if you have a buddy work together with him. Drop a few spikes on the heavy to get him to drop what he's doing and chasing you. If he doesn't follow, keep spiking him until he has to run or kill you to stay alive. Lure him into a nice dark room and have your buddy the skulk fall down on his **** and finish him off.

Okabore · January 2003

I was in a game where we managed to push back and kill HA/HMG and HA/GL haveing one hive and using only a gorge, skulks and a wall of lame. I think it was on nothing (sewer, vent...) and we had al couple of walls of lame up behind the double doors when the marines came walking. What we did was rush out from or walls and attack them. Then when we were hurt enough we rushed back to the wall and healed. Since the area between the doors are quite confined and there were around four or five heavies they had trouble hitting us. All the while the OC were shooting at them.
We pushed them back and killed quite a few of them untill they more or less gave up.
Think that was the turning point. We took back all the hives and punished them for their insolense against the Kharaa race <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Smithboy · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Okabore @ Jan 17 2003, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I was in a game where we managed to push back and kill HA/HMG and HA/GL haveing one hive and using only a gorge, skulks and a wall of lame. I think it was on nothing (sewer, vent...) and we had al couple of walls of lame up behind the double doors when the marines came walking. What we did was rush out from or walls and attack them. Then when we were hurt enough we rushed back to the wall and healed. Since the area between the doors are quite confined and there were around four or five heavies they had trouble hitting us. All the while the OC were shooting at them.
We pushed them back and killed quite a few of them untill they more or less gave up.
Think that was the turning point. We took back all the hives and punished them for their insolense against the Kharaa race <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's caged. Check the scores tab when you join maps to remember the names. I was bad at map names for a month maybe and then finally started checking the names in-game and now I know all of the official map names.

I've taken down heavies, but it's difficult. Today I think the 1 lone heavy was reloading or lag, and I was all over him. Sometimes i just die right away though. Webbing is so useful for this.

Webbing is useful in other places too, like on vent openings and other places up high. When they get jetpacks, the JPers will fall to their deaths if they hit a web up high. I was shooting the power silo hive on nothing from above and was about to zip to another spot up top when a gorge threw up webs and i fell to my deaths as I hit the web, JPing across. Kind of funny. I was the last marine alive too, but we had no hope.

If you can remember as a gorge, put web up above and in front of OTs so that jetpackers can't fly over them safely. They hit the web and stand there in the OT's fire <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> Then on the ground for marines to be frozen as well.

sekdar · January 2003

btw - HA does <b>not</b> slow you down, its the gun you carry. a HA can travel just as fast as a light if he's carrying an LMG. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Anyways, going straight in to attack heavies as skulks isn't always the best idea. Things to try:

-Take out any lights around them and haul arse outta there

-parasite them and harass them

-sneak up on them, take two bites and flee. rinse and repeat.

-coordinate with one other skulk to get hugely increased chances, especially if they know what you are doing and how to support your attack strategy.

-hide above him and wait for him to pass by. if you can drop on his head, you've got almost a guaranteed kill. Up is the last direction a marine will look if he's being bitten.

-as a lerk, hit him with spikes from the biggest distance you possibly can. Once you see him spinning around looking for you, quickly break line of sight with him. wait a few secs, take a quick peek around the corner. If he's facing away, resume spiking. If he's looking straight at you, fire a few spikes and flee. if you know the map you should have no problem flanking him. hit him from the other side when he thinks you are retreating to heal.

Nicator · January 2003

Assuming we're talking one hive aliens (as it's not hard to drop HA/HMG marines with hive 2 aliens), I go lerk, and try to find a marine on his own. The trick is to bounce around <i>on top</i> of their head, biting. If you've ever tried aiming at something directly above you, you will have noticed that mouse control becomes very awkward when you're aiming directly up. You're using this to your advantage. You <i>really</i> need to keep an eye on your energy, because as soon as you run out you're dead. It may take you two passes - pull off when you're running low on energy, get back to a DC, recharge and heal. Then repeat. This has the best success rate of any manouevre I've tried against HA/HMGs, but the balance of power is certainly still in their favour.

This doesn't work very well against multiple competant HA/HMG marines, but then nothing does at hive 1 really <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>. I have dropped a pair of HA/HMG with this before, but given that they weren't welding each other it's safe to say that they weren't the highest calibre marines the world has ever seen <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>.

NickBlasta · January 2003

I've killed tons of HA/HMG marines as melee fade, just rush them and circle strafe around them swiping, gets them every time

TickTock · January 2003

Toe to toe with a Fade I have never lost as an HA/HMG. Circle-strafing only works if they stand still, and most smart players will backpedal to make it hard for you to get out of their range of fire. The HMG is a meat grinder at close range, but it loses a lot far away because of the **** poor spread. So your best bet unless you have gorges with web handy is to lerk spike or acid rocket heavies as best you can from a fair distance. But once you have a team of multiple HH marines coming towards your hive, you're in some seriously deep crap.

KMGor · January 2003

"Toe to toe with a Fade I have never lost as an HA/HMG"

One on one? If that's the case, then you're either one of the best marines around or have yet to face a great fade.

Oh yeah, a skulk who gets up behing a HA, then leaps into him so he sort of slides down - it does like 16 damage every 1/10th of a second, something like that, so if you do it just right you can kill/come close to killing a heavy. It works like a weaker version of the onos charge. Shocking when you're a heavy to suddenly be almost dead because of a lowly skulk.

T_RAT · January 2003

If im a skulk i normally hide and wait 4 the HA-HMG marine to go past me.
Then i drop down and bite at his heels and keep running around and around making him lose control of his aim hopefully, then i will go back to my hiding spot to get ready for another attack.
U can take him oout with 1 skulk if u r good enough.
If not 5 skulks can die in 3 secs if not organised or using tactics.

Church · January 2003

Hmm, one lone HA/anything marine -deserves- to die. Hell, one long marine deserves to die period. Taking out TWO HA/anything + welder marines is a pain is the backdoor. As a HA marine, especially in heavy combat situations unless I have a gL my primary weapon is usually a welder. It has no energy bar, so I can keep it turned on forever. My buddy and I weld each other constantly, so we never die, and we hurt everthing that comes near us. We killed countless skulks and quite a few melee fades that came at us. the two of us help generator room in ns_nothing for like 5 minutes on our own by just welding and the comm giving us a medpack now and then. Notice this also makes webs useless. We allowed time for the comm to research jetpacks, and we seiged from redroom and the rest of the game was easy. We had taken cargo first. Yep, it was sweet. Fades were afraid of us. We COULD NOT DIE.

Dealing With Ha

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