The game is too easy...

245

Comments

  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    After getting a Cyclopse, it pretty much becomes a walk in the park.

    Cyclops should make you a bigger target, that would be a drawback for essentially having a mobile base.

    Once the fans here stop hyping over this game they'll realize how dull this game can be if the game doesn't challenge or at least adapt to your experience somewhat.

    Think about it. If we take out survival elements, we have a guy who crashes on a planet and looks at pretty plants, whilst reading data logs, and rocketing off the planet. You'd need to be at really good story teller to make that work and be fun for others. And I don't see it here. I don't see the story we have being enough to even come close to holding the game up and being glorified for it. It's basically an alien quarantine.... such story. No, that's not story. That's backstory. And games aren't driven by backstory alone.

    The survival makes the game worth playing. How do you people not see that? I'm surprised that less people AREN'T concerned for the state of this game at launch if they don't give us a challenge.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Please dont pour your shit-bucket on me yet...
    Maybe if the devs put in stuff like this?
    -Diver illness, if you go up/down too quickly you get hurt. (Balance with better O2 capacity)
    -Suit durability.
    -Cyclops shouldnt be "invulnerable" to creatures.
    -Getting bitten by an alien shark would be alot more Lethal than presented in the game.
    -Status effect/perks
    -100m water pressure is not very nice to the body.
    -You lose more items when dead.
    -Reasonable construction cost.

    Suit durability actually sounds kinda nice and a good way not to make the knife stand out so awkwardly. The Cyclops is being worked on and will likely lose its invulnerability next update. The transfuser will introduce (positive) status effects.

    I don't think I agree with upping NPC-inflicted damage, water pressure, losing more items when dead (not sure what you mean by that), and 50/50 on construction costs. Much of this would not necessarily make the game harder so much as raising the learning/payoff curve and taking back from the sense of freedom. It's worth keeping in mind the game as it is already is too hard to be accessible to a significant portion of the exploration-focussed gamers.

    Diver illness and (negative) status effects could work. I don't have a particular opinion on that - my one worry is that it'd be too much to keep track of.
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Please dont pour your shit-bucket on me yet...
    Maybe if the devs put in stuff like this?
    -Diver illness, if you go up/down too quickly you get hurt. (Balance with better O2 capacity)
    -Suit durability.
    -Cyclops shouldnt be "invulnerable" to creatures.
    -Getting bitten by an alien shark would be alot more Lethal than presented in the game.
    -Status effect/perks
    -100m water pressure is not very nice to the body.
    -You lose more items when dead.
    -Reasonable construction cost.

    Suit durability actually sounds kinda nice and a good way not to make the knife stand out so awkwardly. The Cyclops is being worked on and will likely lose its invulnerability next update. The transfuser will introduce (positive) status effects.

    I don't think I agree with upping NPC-inflicted damage, water pressure, losing more items when dead (not sure what you mean by that), and 50/50 on construction costs. Much of this would not necessarily make the game harder so much as raising the learning/payoff curve and taking back from the sense of freedom. It's worth keeping in mind the game as it is already is too hard to be accessible to a significant portion of the exploration-focussed gamers.

    Diver illness and (negative) status effects could work. I don't have a particular opinion on that - my one worry is that it'd be too much to keep track of.

    That's where we hit a divide.

    Do we cater toward the explorers... even though we've pretty much explored everything... or do we cater to survival and help the logevity of the game?

    Most people her play hundreds of hours of this game... even though there's probably 20 max. We don't need their perspective. We need to either take the prespective of someone outside here or take the perspective on ourselves and look at it from a different angle.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Please dont pour your shit-bucket on me yet...
    Maybe if the devs put in stuff like this?
    -Diver illness, if you go up/down too quickly you get hurt. (Balance with better O2 capacity)
    -Suit durability.
    -Cyclops shouldnt be "invulnerable" to creatures.
    -Getting bitten by an alien shark would be alot more Lethal than presented in the game.
    -Status effect/perks
    -100m water pressure is not very nice to the body.
    -You lose more items when dead.
    -Reasonable construction cost.

    Suit durability actually sounds kinda nice and a good way not to make the knife stand out so awkwardly. The Cyclops is being worked on and will likely lose its invulnerability next update. The transfuser will introduce (positive) status effects.

    I don't think I agree with upping NPC-inflicted damage, water pressure, losing more items when dead (not sure what you mean by that), and 50/50 on construction costs. Much of this would not necessarily make the game harder so much as raising the learning/payoff curve and taking back from the sense of freedom. It's worth keeping in mind the game as it is already is too hard to be accessible to a significant portion of the exploration-focussed gamers.

    Diver illness and (negative) status effects could work. I don't have a particular opinion on that - my one worry is that it'd be too much to keep track of.

    That's where we hit a divide.

    Do we cater toward the explorers... even though we've pretty much explored everything... or do we cater to survival and help the logevity of the game?

    Most people her play hundreds of hours of this game... even though there's probably 20 max. We don't need their perspective. We need to either take the prespective of someone outside here or take the perspective on ourselves and look at it from a different angle.

    I might be mistaken, but I believe the devs have already decided to "cater" towards the explorers. That is, a while back there was a voice deriding the game's increasingly demanding gameplay when the initial marketing promised exploration. I'm pretty sure I saw Trello cards or something on amending that and rebalancing to make it fun for explorers again. That's why we have so much more access to fragments now and has the seaglide been made to last longer on one battery. Like, a game that's too easy won't be enjoyed, but a game that's too hard can't be enjoyed.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,333 Advanced user
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Play it in Hardcore Mode and don't use any of the vehicles...

    It's really not that hard to come up with ways to make the game more entertaining for oneself, if one actually tries.
    B)

    If the player has to find ways to make a game challenging by setting unnecessary challenges for themselves, then the game has failed.

    If the player is unrealistically expecting the game to become More Difficult With Each Replay, then the player has Failed Himself and expects the Dev's to be Miracle Workers.

    And any player who doesn't realize that, should definitely not become a Game Developer.

    B)
    Kyman2010x6A7232
  • RalijRalij US Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Members Posts: 602 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Like, a game that's too easy won't be enjoyed, but a game that's too hard can't be enjoyed.

    I think the base game as is, is pretty balanced for newer folks. I'd rather difficulties come in a different mode entirely or be unlocked once you get off planet and 'beat' the game the first time. I think the fear aspect on the first run through keeps it from being too easy for first run through.

    Another option that I truly hope is implemented/planned, is that the devs support a modding community after launch. This allows every player to tweak the game to their exact preference. Don't want reefbacks? Want new areas? Want hardcore survival features? Boom, done. All the replayability and customization you could possibly want while letting the devs focus on the core game and story. They've already made a heck of a game here so I doubt they'd use the community as a crutch.
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Play it in Hardcore Mode and don't use any of the vehicles...

    It's really not that hard to come up with ways to make the game more entertaining for oneself, if one actually tries.
    B)

    If the player has to find ways to make a game challenging by setting unnecessary challenges for themselves, then the game has failed.

    If the player is unrealistically expecting the game to become More Difficult With Each Replay, then the player has Failed Himself and expects the Dev's to be Miracle Workers.

    And any player who doesn't realize that, should definitely not become a Game Developer.

    B)

    Making a competent game is asking for devs to be miracle workers?

    You think the main market is going to care whether they're miracle workers or not? Because this is certainly not Journey. That game is more of a puzzle exploration game. But if this was an exploration game, why add hunger or thirst or any survival element? Why not focus that effort into the ocean and making it prettier?

    Because the game CAN'T just be exploration. It lacks any of the components to be a replayable one. No procedurely generated biomes. It's one map. That alone plummets replayability. Okay. How about a compelling story? Nothing. All it is backstory. The central conflict is the ocean itself and your goal to get off it; that us the story. Everything else in this game is backstory. That's fine and good but when it's easy to survive that conflict has no meaning. You don't have a story driven experience here. If you think it is, then I'd recommend you look at games that are ACTUALLY story driven.

    That's ignoring the fact that you are, indeed, COMPLETELY alone with nobody to interact with.... such story, huh?

    Okay. Exploration? That's all nice for the 20 hours you'll spend doing it. But due to no replayability you'll be stuck there unless you mess around in creative or you're one of those fanboys who will excuse every flaw or considered decision and play the game like it's the best game ever created.

    Nobody except for a vocal minority on these forums are requesting for exploration focused gameplay. They're the heavy roleplayers who would pretend they're exploring. This is not an exploration game. Even the story doesnt permit it, because you are not an explorer you are a survivor in a ship crash and you want to get off the planet. You have a goal that goes beyond "look at things and discover" The thing keeping this game going is the attached survival. That's what makes the goal worth going toward.

    Now we want to focus the gameplay on exploration (and by extension hindering survival) even though there is nothing that suggests that this is the overall goal.

    Discovery? This isn't Minecraft or No Man's Sky (or what it should have been). You discover and explore everything your first playthrough. You can do that with any game. ANY GAME! FPS games have you discover things.

    But because a buncha unnamed plebs don't want the game to be too hard to disturb their nature walk we ignore all that and make it casual. It's disgusting.

    Now, is what we have good? Yes. Subnautica is excellent for what it is but once it comes out of Early Access... I'm not holding back.

    I'd also point out that you Strawmaned me. I never suggested what you stated.
    Post edited by ResolutionBlaze on
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    0x6A7232Casual_Player
  • RalijRalij US Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Members Posts: 602 Advanced user
    The story will come with the plot, which isn't really implemented yet. I'm sure we will have more there. Don't the pda things count as part of the story as you piece together what really happened?
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Ralij wrote: »
    The story will come with the plot, which isn't really implemented yet. I'm sure we will have more there. Don't the pda things count as part of the story as you piece together what really happened?

    No. That's backstory.

    Reading isn't my idea of a game driven by story.

    Amnesia made it work...

    A ) You didn't have to read all the notes; the ones most relevant to the main story were ones that were read to you. It also makes sense because you suffered from amnesia, so you have to remember (if you so choose) by reading the notes. That makes up for having no other interactions.

    B ) It was a horror game, and the gameplay mechanics complimented it well. It was complete and fairly balanced. This game is not. There is not enough story in the PDAs to have the game lean on it reliably. Plus reading PDAs isn't my idea of fun or engaging story telling.

    An excellent story told poorly can make it a horrible game. A bad story told well can win awards.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    Casual_Player
  • WodenifferousWodenifferous Join Date: 2017-03-01 Member: 228458Members Posts: 31 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Please dont pour your shit-bucket on me yet...
    Maybe if the devs put in stuff like this?
    -Diver illness, if you go up/down too quickly you get hurt. (Balance with better O2 capacity)
    -Suit durability.
    -Cyclops shouldnt be "invulnerable" to creatures.
    -Getting bitten by an alien shark would be alot more Lethal than presented in the game.
    -Status effect/perks
    -100m water pressure is not very nice to the body.
    -You lose more items when dead.
    -Reasonable construction cost.

    Suit durability actually sounds kinda nice and a good way not to make the knife stand out so awkwardly. The Cyclops is being worked on and will likely lose its invulnerability next update. The transfuser will introduce (positive) status effects.

    I don't think I agree with upping NPC-inflicted damage, water pressure, losing more items when dead (not sure what you mean by that), and 50/50 on construction costs. Much of this would not necessarily make the game harder so much as raising the learning/payoff curve and taking back from the sense of freedom. It's worth keeping in mind the game as it is already is too hard to be accessible to a significant portion of the exploration-focussed gamers.

    Diver illness and (negative) status effects could work. I don't have a particular opinion on that - my one worry is that it'd be too much to keep track of.

    That's where we hit a divide.

    Do we cater toward the explorers... even though we've pretty much explored everything... or do we cater to survival and help the logevity of the game?

    Most people her play hundreds of hours of this game... even though there's probably 20 max. We don't need their perspective. We need to either take the prespective of someone outside here or take the perspective on ourselves and look at it from a different angle.

    I might be mistaken, but I believe the devs have already decided to "cater" towards the explorers. That is, a while back there was a voice deriding the game's increasingly demanding gameplay when the initial marketing promised exploration. I'm pretty sure I saw Trello cards or something on amending that and rebalancing to make it fun for explorers again. That's why we have so much more access to fragments now and has the seaglide been made to last longer on one battery. Like, a game that's too easy won't be enjoyed, but a game that's too hard can't be enjoyed.

    You gotta be kidding me. Freedom and Creative modes exist to cater to the explorers and builders. The other modes don't need to have that same focus. There should be a mode that emphasizes survival, for the people who don't want a free ride through the game. As things stand, with no credibly threatening enemies and with hunger and thirst being as challenging as getting wet in a rainstorm, the only challenge the game presents is in finding enough titanium to build a base.

    Subnautica is a very pretty game and it's entirely understandable that many people just want to explore the world with little to no risk, and I don't think that should be taken away from them. But the game has a mode selector for a reason, and providing a mode or two that tweaks things to make a challenging, hostile world is not an impossible, or even unreasonable, request.
    ResolutionBlaze0x6A7232
  • GreybeardGreybeard USA Join Date: 2016-09-24 Member: 222538Members Posts: 75 Advanced user
    It's funny there are people saying this game will fail at launch because it's too casual (why have food and water?)... one word, MINECRAFT. I don't need to tell anyone how hugely popular that game is. I STILL play it years after release, as many other folks do. I've only ever played it in survival. It's by no means a hard game (even on hard, lol). Food becomes a non-factor pretty early on, especially if you know what you're doing. The monsters are no real threat (super basic AI), and can be avoided completely through a bit of early planning and block selection (glass, stairs, half slab, etc.). Subnautica is no different in this regard, nor does it have to be, as there is a giant fan base for just this type of game and difficulty. Do I sometimes wish MC were a bit harder? Sure, but it is what it is, and it's insanely popular.

    Perhaps try 7DtD and put the Zs on "always run". Just a thought. It makes the survival almost impossible (short of living underground).

    I'm not trying to knock anyone for wanting a game to suit their vision of how it could be better and successful, but I think Subnautica will do just fine as it is. It's pretty popular already.
    0x6A7232
  • RalijRalij US Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Members Posts: 602 Advanced user
    @ResolutionBlaze Ah, I see your point. I think it works fine, personally, but I respect that it could be done better. Cheers.

    @Greybeard Not to get too off topic, but I do need to try 7DtD again, I haven't played it since early alpha when you spent all night hiding and listening to the zombies groan so thank you for the reminder about that game.
    0x6A7232
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Greybeard wrote: »
    It's funny there are people saying this game will fail at launch because it's too casual (why have food and water?)... one word, MINECRAFT. I don't need to tell anyone how hugely popular that game is. I STILL play it years after release, as many other folks do. I've only ever played it in survival. It's by no means a hard game (even on hard, lol). Food becomes a non-factor pretty early on, especially if you know what you're doing. The monsters are no real threat (super basic AI), and can be avoided completely through a bit of early planning and block selection (glass, stairs, half slab, etc.). Subnautica is no different in this regard, nor does it have to be, as there is a giant fan base for just this type of game and difficulty. Do I sometimes wish MC were a bit harder? Sure, but it is what it is, and it's insanely popular.

    Perhaps try 7DtD and put the Zs on "always run". Just a thought. It makes the survival almost impossible (short of living underground).

    I'm not trying to knock anyone for wanting a game to suit their vision of how it could be better and successful, but I think Subnautica will do just fine as it is. It's pretty popular already.

    You forget to factor in that Minecraft punishes you HARD for dying. Without proper preparations you could lose everything. Let's not mention lava.....

    It also had far more to explore and had huge creative freedom so it could get away with less challenging survival gameplay.

    My point is that no such crutches exist in Subnautica. Minecraft may get easy, but the amount of handholding in Subnautica is absurd.

    *coughHealthKitFabricatorPleaseRemovecough*

    Minecraft doesn't hold your hand. And the way the game is structured makes it neigh impossible to have a structured set of biome or places like Subnautica has. And unit variation is minimal. That is no excuse for Subnautica.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    Casual_Player
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    Yes, yes, disagree with all my posts and provide no rebuttal thereof.

    Disagreeing doesn't make you correct. This game needs more challenge; it's not going to survive at launch as it is because of how open they've been with everything. We practically know what's going on. The least it needs is a challenge.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    EnglishInfidel0x6A7232Casual_Player
  • WodenifferousWodenifferous Join Date: 2017-03-01 Member: 228458Members Posts: 31 Advanced user
    Greybeard wrote: »
    It's funny there are people saying this game will fail at launch because it's too casual (why have food and water?)... one word, MINECRAFT. I don't need to tell anyone how hugely popular that game is. I STILL play it years after release, as many other folks do. I've only ever played it in survival. It's by no means a hard game (even on hard, lol). Food becomes a non-factor pretty early on, especially if you know what you're doing. The monsters are no real threat (super basic AI), and can be avoided completely through a bit of early planning and block selection (glass, stairs, half slab, etc.). Subnautica is no different in this regard, nor does it have to be, as there is a giant fan base for just this type of game and difficulty. Do I sometimes wish MC were a bit harder? Sure, but it is what it is, and it's insanely popular.

    Perhaps try 7DtD and put the Zs on "always run". Just a thought. It makes the survival almost impossible (short of living underground).

    I'm not trying to knock anyone for wanting a game to suit their vision of how it could be better and successful, but I think Subnautica will do just fine as it is. It's pretty popular already.

    You forget to factor in that Minecraft punishes you HARD for dying. Without proper preparations you could lose everything. Let's not mention lava.....

    It also had far more to explore and had huge creative freedom so it could get away with less challenging survival gameplay.

    My point is that no such crutches exist in Subnautica. Minecraft may get easy, but the amount of handholding in Subnautica is absurd.

    *coughHealthKitFabricatorPleaseRemovecough*

    Minecraft doesn't hold your hand. And the way the game is structured makes it neigh impossible to have a structured set of biome or places like Subnautica has. And unit variation is minimal. That is no excuse for Subnautica.

    I love me some Minecraft. But I only play it heavily modded to make the game more challenging - more demanding survival, more aggressive enemies, steeper resource costs... any or all of the above. For my tastes, vanilla Minecraft suffers from exactly the same thing Subnautica does: you can climb the tech tree quickly and finish the game's objectives in a short period of time, and then there's nothing left except building. At least in Minecraft you can wander the world to see new sights.

    Lots of people love building in Minecraft, and evidently also in this game. That's cool; it's just not my personal jam. What I'm looking for is an ongoing challenge that makes the world worthwhile to play in.
  • SushiDiver500SushiDiver500 Join Date: 2016-05-28 Member: 217686Members Posts: 33 Advanced user
    ResolutionBlaze, thx for the Support.

    I think i kinda messed up a bit. I explained badly in the start. I just made another discussion just to refresh a bit, ResolutionBlaze, you have many good wiews.
    Feel free to co
    0x6A7232Casual_Player
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Yes, yes, disagree with all my posts and provide no rebuttal thereof.

    Disagreeing doesn't make you correct. This game needs more challenge; it's not going to survive at launch as it is because of how open they've been with everything. We practically know what's going on. The least it needs is a challenge.

    I'm afraid I don't follow. What does it matter "we" know what's going on? "We" already bought the game. For launch day, it matters what anyone but us will care and how would they know anything or be dissuaded from purchase after watching LPs any more than those who bought during EA?

    I get that EA takes the "now" moment away from games developed that way, but just increasing the difficulty - when there are sounds the game is too tough as it is - doesn't strike me as able to change anything about that.
    Mr_Endarundefiler
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    You gotta be kidding me. Freedom and Creative modes exist to cater to the explorers and builders. The other modes don't need to have that same focus. There should be a mode that emphasizes survival, for the people who don't want a free ride through the game. As things stand, with no credibly threatening enemies and with hunger and thirst being as challenging as getting wet in a rainstorm, the only challenge the game presents is in finding enough titanium to build a base.

    Subnautica is a very pretty game and it's entirely understandable that many people just want to explore the world with little to no risk, and I don't think that should be taken away from them. But the game has a mode selector for a reason, and providing a mode or two that tweaks things to make a challenging, hostile world is not an impossible, or even unreasonable, request.

    That's an unfair POV. Freedom is easier because it takes out gameplay and leaves one with no reward for finding anything relating to food and water, and Creative isn't truly a mode at all.

    Personally I am in favor of customization options a la Don't Starve, with possibly some modes as difficulty guidance. Just making the game all-around harder (Freedom as is would also be affected by stronger and more aggressive critters) is a selfish way to go.
    Mr_Endarundefiler
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Yes, yes, disagree with all my posts and provide no rebuttal thereof.

    Disagreeing doesn't make you correct. This game needs more challenge; it's not going to survive at launch as it is because of how open they've been with everything. We practically know what's going on. The least it needs is a challenge.

    I'm afraid I don't follow. What does it matter "we" know what's going on? "We" already bought the game. For launch day, it matters what anyone but us will care and how would they know anything or be dissuaded from purchase after watching LPs any more than those who bought during EA?

    I get that EA takes the "now" moment away from games developed that way, but just increasing the difficulty - when there are sounds the game is too tough as it is - doesn't strike me as able to change anything about that.

    The game isn't "too tough".

    First of all, keeping the creatures competent against your unstoppable machinery isn't making the game harder, it's making the game equally challenging on all levels. You are still at threat, your threat level has not shrunk as you go deeper. When (if) they add Cyclops damage I believe that can negate a lot of that, but it doesn't take away many of the hand holding and frankly mind-boggling decisions the Devs have made.

    "People complained about Med Kits. I guess we should make a device that automatically creates an unlimited supply of health for you (I swear if that stays at launch I'll be salty enough to make Subnautica the Dead Sea...)"

    "Plenty of fish in the sea, but we need plants that don't require water or sunlight to grow and can provide a near infinite supply of food and water with no further effort required."

    Trying not to sound mocking, I appreciate the work the Devs have done, but these decisions in particular turn from easy to cake-walk in matter of moments. Balance is something that requires Trial and Error, stuff I have yet to see but a few times with Creature Aggression.

    Second of all, too tough is fairly subjective. Some people just suck at games; that's why many of them have difficulty settings. Play on easy. Get through the story if you want, explore if you want. But making the base game easy is no way to make a game; making it hard is no way to make a game unless you're Dark Souls. You always want that middle ground and take into consideration the kind of game you're making.

    So yeah I don't think this game will do well at launch because there is nothing to show for at launch. They've shown it all already, and I don't think the game is going to get anymore of a spike in popularity. This is a problem with any Early Access game, especially if the game is Singleplayer and tries to tell a story it's like... well by the time the game is fixed and everything people have already heard or experienced the story. Tried to keep away myself when the story was being implemented but of course this being a public forum I was bound to be spoiled. So I decided not to bother. And that affects the experience. Simply a bane with Early Access once they hit a popularity spike mid-development. Sadly Subnautica already hit the spike so I don't expect much else to follow.

    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    You gotta be kidding me. Freedom and Creative modes exist to cater to the explorers and builders. The other modes don't need to have that same focus. There should be a mode that emphasizes survival, for the people who don't want a free ride through the game. As things stand, with no credibly threatening enemies and with hunger and thirst being as challenging as getting wet in a rainstorm, the only challenge the game presents is in finding enough titanium to build a base.

    Subnautica is a very pretty game and it's entirely understandable that many people just want to explore the world with little to no risk, and I don't think that should be taken away from them. But the game has a mode selector for a reason, and providing a mode or two that tweaks things to make a challenging, hostile world is not an impossible, or even unreasonable, request.

    That's an unfair POV. Freedom is easier because it takes out gameplay and leaves one with no reward for finding anything relating to food and water, and Creative isn't truly a mode at all.

    Personally I am in favor of customization options a la Don't Starve, with possibly some modes as difficulty guidance. Just making the game all-around harder (Freedom as is would also be affected by stronger and more aggressive critters) is a selfish way to go.

    Wasn't this the whole point we were making?

    That the game is survival oriented?
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Subnautica does kinda suffer from unlimited resources when you're set up, that is a fair point...


    Kinda similar to that new indie game where you're on a raft, growing bloody palmtrees on the sea. Funny and as ridiculous as that is, that game also has the same issue. After a while, you've got too many self-sustaining resource generators (ie: seeds -> grow plants/tree -> get wood/leafs/more seeds -> etc...), the shark is no threat at all anymore. In this case the game is truly over, because there is zero exploration, with this lingering feeling of "is there more, what's going on..."

    Subnautica at least has the story and exploration for the most part. And it is a MUCH bigger game, so this issue feels less visible, I guess...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    ResolutionBlaze
  • GreybeardGreybeard USA Join Date: 2016-09-24 Member: 222538Members Posts: 75 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    I agree that EA can hurt future sales, but that's on the gamer. No one is forcing them to play. But, it is a factor.
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Subnautica does kinda suffer from unlimited resources when you're set up, that is a fair point...


    Kinda similar to that new indie game where you're on a raft, growing bloody palmtrees on the sea. Funny and as ridiculous as that is, that game also has the same issue. After a while, you've got too many self-sustaining resource generators (ie: seeds -> grow plants/tree -> get wood/leafs/more seeds -> etc...), the shark is no threat at all anymore. In this case the game is truly over, because there is zero exploration, with this lingering feeling of "is there more, what's going on..."

    Subnautica at least has the story and exploration for the most part...

    I think that an Apex point of survival is okay, as long as the Apex point occurs at the last stage if anywhere. When you're close to the verge of winning. That should be a good Apex point.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    Kouji_San
  • CaptainFearlessCaptainFearless CO, US Join Date: 2016-12-14 Member: 224941Members Posts: 359 Advanced user
    There is still so much more coming to Subnautica until release, and even after that the devs plan to keep working on it. I think that there is plenty of replay value.
    Nyeh heh heh
    Beanboy Delivery
    You may know me as Tipoff Giggots
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    They at least have the "ya need this to get here" bit on track

    - Going deeper, git some modules
    - Need some defense against that big bastard, get toys

    Tiers, like RPG's, potentially this has no limit and is very easy to balance out for what you want the player to do or be able to do. But as I said the resource generation is too easy to max out

    I do hope we'll eventually get more scripted events, with dangers as well. Kinda how, um... Terraria does, get to a certain tier level or meet other requirements and you'll have to deal with some kind of scripted event...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Kyman201 wrote: »
    @ResolutionBlaze - I was disagreeing with many of your posts, but I only now got around to posting. If you wanted to know why I did it?

    Because you're probably one of the most aggressively angry and dismissive posters I've encountered on this thread. I personally disagree with EVERYTHING you've been saying, pertaining to this game not being hard enough, to how this game probably won't last once released, how this game should be more hardcore.

    But what can I say beyond "This point you are making is not what I like in a game, and it is not what I want in Subnautica", and if only there were a quick and easy way to mark my opinion on disagreeing with your points without needing to take up space with "Well it's a personal opinion but I disagree"

    Oh hey, a button that says "Disagree". *Clicks*

    I'm not half as angry as I seem, my friend. I'm only angry at people who deserve it.

    However, I can easily tell that you are upset. My post was rather condescending toward you and I take blame for that, and I'm sorry I called you out for using a perfectly normal forum function.

    But I politely request that if you're not going to "take up space with your personal opinion" then don't take up space with useless aggravated banter in return. I mean, I could care less if you do, but it looks less hypocritical, because if you have the time to type out a response like that you most certainly have time to lay out your opinion in Layman's Terms
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    0x6A7232Casual_Player
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    They at least have the "ya need this to get here" bit on track

    - Going deeper, git some modules
    - Need some defense against that big bastard, get toys

    Tiers, like RPG's, potentially this has no limit and is very easy to balance out for what you want the player to do or be able to do. But as I said the resource generation is too easy to max out

    I do hope we'll eventually get more scripted events, with dangers as well. Kinda how, um... Terraria does, get to a certain tier level or meet other requirements and you'll have to deal with some kind of scripted event...

    I think the removal of several things will be necessary.

    - Health Kit Fabricator
    - Gives more requirements for plants
    - Leviathans damage Cyclops

    That would be a good start I think. Especially with the way they map this out, if Leviathans go after the Cyclops that would force the player into their Sea Moth more to become less of a target.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members Posts: 676 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Yes, yes, disagree with all my posts and provide no rebuttal thereof.

    Disagreeing doesn't make you correct. This game needs more challenge; it's not going to survive at launch as it is because of how open they've been with everything. We practically know what's going on. The least it needs is a challenge.

    Fanboy tactics, Bro.
    They hit the "disagree" on posts which are objective, 100% fact.
    They can't actually disagree competently, because their arguments are meaningless. So the "disagree" button gives them a little bit of compensation.

    If your posts are getting "disagrees" but none of them can actually engage you in conversation with any meaningful retort, you've won. Congratulations.
    Casual_Player
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    Yes, yes, disagree with all my posts and provide no rebuttal thereof.

    Disagreeing doesn't make you correct. This game needs more challenge; it's not going to survive at launch as it is because of how open they've been with everything. We practically know what's going on. The least it needs is a challenge.

    Fanboy tactics, Bro.
    They hit the "disagree" on posts which are objective, 100% fact.
    They can't actually disagree competently, because their arguments are meaningless. So the "disagree" button gives them a little bit of compensation.

    If your posts are getting "disagrees" but none of them can actually engage you in conversation with any meaningful retort, you've won. Congratulations.

    I overreacted, but I agree that if you're going to disagree on a post at least have decency to say why even if you won't follow up with more replies.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
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