A new version has been uploaded to the Steam Workshop (just in time for testing tomorrow).
As mentioned previously, please focus on the layout, tech/res locations, distance between key areas, etc. Ignore the long corridors at the moment until the layout has been finalised.
Overview
Changes
- Changed to fixed spawn locations (Marines always start in loading bay)
- Removed tech point from holoroom
- Widened corridors to help with testing
- Added additional entry into Vent hive
- Updated Processing layout
- Updated Holo
- Updated Cargo
- Added stairwell to Maintenance Corridor for testing
- Added sample props around the map
- Added glass material to several rooms
In regards to that long corridor on the left of maintenance which it feature a "dip" like the original did?
I get that big rooms and LOS are an issue, but it wasn't what I was looking for in this test. I wanted to find out how the current layout plays so I know what rooms need to be moved, changed, etc. Once we have a good layout, I will then move onto addressing room sizes, LOS, etc.
Well it needs more testing but from playing it once I can tell you:
I am playing NS2 without that SSAO thing. The entire map is only greybox textures (that isn't a problem ofc) but in combination with the complete lack of any lights all walls look the same. It is really hard for the eye to understand the room's layout or shape, so a few normal lights and maybe shadows would be really helpful here.
The RT in Loading Bay gives skulks and lerks the option to hide underneath without marines being able to shoot them (maybe I just didn't find the way to do so, if so, please tell me). That should be never the case imo, especially not in the marines main RT room and it is very far out what makes it even more a problem. When the distance is that far it should be easier to hold.
The room around the RT in Data Core Alpha is too small. You can't move in there properly and one of the two exits is just crates you need to jump onto so the room feels even smaller.
The exit to the south side is narrow and without any cover, it feels aliens cannot engage marines there properly.
There are many spots on the map with LOS issues. You want the layout tested first but as Flaterectomy said you need to place atleast some crates or any other cover there. Without you cannot test balance because rooms or hallways are basically unusable for aliens.
I am also not sure about the marine natural RT placement. They seem far away and I found it very difficult to hold them.
Is the alien spawn fixed?
What is the purpose for the dead end in Loading Bay? I think it only gives aliens more options to hide in the marine main.
It also looks very ARC friendly but I haven't tested it yet.
I like the basic layout though, but I need to play it more to say really more about it.
ok people might kill me for ruining hera but I was just focussing on only getting the layout ported in a way that it can work for ns2:
the green X would be an RT placement and this would require a Loading Bay spawn for marines only and Data Core Delta spawn for aliens
This was actually along the lines of what I was thinking.
- The entrance to DC Alpha has to be split up.
- Same with Vent Hive....was thinking of bringing this closer to MS so around Maintenance area. Also need to fix the entrances.
- The split between Cargo will need to happen. This will also address the issue @Loki raises.
I still disagree with the size @Loki. I just ran a few tests then sprinting as a marine on Summit with no weapons. Note: I bypassed Cargo as per the minimap suggestion by @Mephilles
Hey guys,
first off. You are all awesome.
Secondly. I've got a lot of hours and experience with porting over maps, and DMD last updated Hera about a month ago. It's on the back burner now for who knows how long. Loki is right.. Hera needs a 1.5 scale (1.0 can work but it's challenging!)
All in all - I've learned a lot. A few thousand hours is a lot of time in the editor!
NS2_dmd_Origin
80% complete.
Feels good. Really good. Needs occlusion, and a couple of corridor adjustments to account for NS1's A.D.H.O.C system.
(All Dat Hive... One Chain) (you can't have one entrance to a hive. Inconceivable! one marine = block all cysts)
NS2_dmd_Nancy (on the back burner as we have to re-work areas)
90% complete.
This map will realistically be scrapped. It is pretty awesome, but we've already got a workload.
NS2_dmd_Hera
95% complete.
(We work on it. It's at the bottom of the list. @Kalopsia - I can give you my feedback on OUR port for you to take into consideration on your own. I might also look at adding you as a contributor - pm me.
NS2_dmd_Metal
75% Complete.
NS_Orbital (Completed and published by Prevert Maximus)
I haven't seen Max in awhile. And there's issues with the last revision. I can't get a hold of him to make the changes we need.
So we're fixing the issues, re-balancing it and as always - feedback on NS2_dmd_Orbital is appreciated.
NS2_dmd_Ayumi
A good port, but it needs to be balanced.
We got really good feedback and we've had to backtrack to re-scale sections from 1.0 to 1.3 as suggested.
We ripped apart the hives completed and re-built them to accustom for A.D.H.O.C issues.
We've had some 45 minute games on there - but balancing is a serious pain in the butt.
NS2-vanilla changes
We've done some changes to the maps that we felt were needed. We did this using player feedback.
NS2_dmd_Biodome (agri labs is hard for aliens to hold (natural res tower) So we created a new area that's more protected for it called fruiting Silos)
NS2_dmd_Veil - We added weldable vents in nano and changed the catwalk at the back of cargo into a lift (elevator)
Recently we changed the nano weldable vents into breakables and added a Blast Door with visible timers to cut nano down the middle (activated by switch) - one power node on each side. It's been interesting, and we adjust according to user feedback and interests. A minor but needed Y-Junction adjustment is on the horizon.
NS2_dmd_docking has a vent added from (blank mind) - the outside area - into Central Access (weldable) for lerks / fades / jetpacks to utilize. Great hiding spot for a Gorge too
Moved the Resource Tower in Generator hive to a safer location.
Added Windows to both sides of Departures to create more visibility (allows Gorges more safety)
Added in a button on the catwalk. hrmmm... What does it do?
NS2_dmd_refinery.
A problem we noticed is that marines win about 75% of the time - and games generally are pretty short. So what we did was we removed the catwalk from North and South lava. Replaced it with a slow moving tram. Added power to South Lava. And finally, fixed some of the lanes between exchange and pipeworks. We've found Marine pushes have slowed WAY down and as such the average game-time on NS2_dmd_refinery is 45 - 60 minutes. Marines are winning 55% of the time.
NS2_Readyrooms @WiseChoices and I had talked about it, but he went ahead and suprised me with this one. It's literally every readyroom compiled into one map. He did a great job and has been a real paramount in helping me with many map changes recently.
NS2_dmd_Bast
I started working on a port, however stopped after a few hundred hours as it just was extremely overwhelming. The amount of work this was going to take was astronomical (to do it properly).
The only way to do Bast is to re-create it (reboot) and build it to NS2 scale one room at a time. Some of you understand the workload entailed.
The issues I have with Bast is pathing, water, physics, mechanics, and expense associated to this map.
We would be looking at approximately 2,000 hours for Bast for it to be re-done properly. @Yojimbo . I know you've been asking for Bast, but I'm really not sure DMD has the resources to get it done.
We would brush it really nicely. Add in dynamic props, and a big revolving door. We would love to do it though.
I haven't seen @Mendasp 's version (I think he has one ((tired)) but what exactly was wrong with it?
That's about it. @WiseChoices has been a huge help to me, and @Cabooble did a lot of scrubbing on the ports awhile back.
We literally removed every extra vertice, face, etc from each port in order to offer maximum performance for the NS2 community to enjoy. It was a lot of work to say the least. @AnnoyingMachine thank you as well.
I'll see if I can get some pictures posted of the maps. (PM me if you want a virtual tour )
Also if anyone is interested in joining the DMD mapping team, just drop me a PM.
I'll teach you everything you need to know (and there's a LOT that I am still learning), and maybe you can teach me as well.
~Rusty
DiamondGamers.net
@Kalopsia Sorry... I wanted to post something quick about Hera, but it seems that I rambled with a bit more information during the wee hours of the night. Feel free to have a mod move this post to a new thread if it interferes with your post.
It's absolutely false. It depends on which country you're in, field (architecture vs biology), and if your university have an agreement from autodesk. There is a special education license. Then ask your doyen gently to get one. Play the lottery instead. Even if you get one, there are some limitations (read licence).
And now Blender comes in as a "nothing to envy" to 3ds (and others). Guess what a doyen do when he sees budget cuts everywhere. .. he says "use blender".
Granted there is a 30 days trial. But it's not with full access.
When you see "free", look for the star then read the fine lines.
It's absolutely false. It depends on which country you're in, field (architecture vs biology), and if your university have an agreement from autodesk. There is a special education license. Then ask your doyen gently to get one. Play the lottery instead. Even if you get one, there are some limitations (read licence).
And now Blender comes in as a "nothing to envy" to 3ds (and others). Guess what a doyen do when he sees budget cuts everywhere. .. he says "use blender".
Granted there is a 30 days trial. But it's not with full access.
When you see "free", look for the star then read the fine lines.
I got that backup from the Internet too. But I am not interested in it anymore. Use Blender.
I didn't get mine from the internet per se, I work in education so it's one of the many perks, as long as I don't use it for profit which I never will do I'm not bothered
It's absolutely false. It depends on which country you're in, field (architecture vs biology), and if your university have an agreement from autodesk. There is a special education license. Then ask your doyen gently to get one. Play the lottery instead. Even if you get one, there are some limitations (read licence).
And now Blender comes in as a "nothing to envy" to 3ds (and others). Guess what a doyen do when he sees budget cuts everywhere. .. he says "use blender".
Granted there is a 30 days trial. But it's not with full access.
When you see "free", look for the star then read the fine lines.
I am doing 3+2 years and it is not media or mechanical. And it is not important how long it goes. They don't ask for that, it is always 3 years. Maybe it is different in other countries.
Hey I'm planning on reworking hera, especially on the graphic side
Just one thing : where are *.level of custom maps downloaded in the workshop ? Can't find them...
Not sure if I understood you correctly, but you can find maps that you download from the steam workshop in appdata/roaming/natural selection 2/workshop and then use the search function (ctrl + f), type in the map name and it will show the level file etc.
I think there are at least three unfinished versions of this map out there
edit: I really don't want to sound discouraging, it's more of a meme at this point that hera will be done because we used to semi-regularly get very high quality screenshots of a version of hera that was being worked on (i think it's the one psyk mentioned), but it ultimately went nowhere, after years
It will be hard to top the visuals of what Janos and Alibi showed from their Hera remake.
To be fair, while the screens looked indeed stunning, I believe the gameplay wouldn't be good. They showed giant rooms and huge LOS.
Creating the rooms on a smaller scale may not look as impressive, but could play well.
i agree, their hera remake looked fantastic however it did look as though there were some huge los issues. difficult to judge from just looking at the screenshots however. I assumed the prject was abandoned because it wasant going to work as an enjoyable ns2 map. Was the map ever tested at any stage?
It will be hard to top the visuals of what Janos and Alibi showed from their Hera remake.
To be fair, while the screens looked indeed stunning, I believe the gameplay wouldn't be good. They showed giant rooms and huge LOS.
Creating the rooms on a smaller scale may not look as impressive, but could play well.
i agree, their hera remake looked fantastic however it did look as though there were some huge los issues. difficult to judge from just looking at the screenshots however. I assumed the prject was abandoned because it wasant going to work as an enjoyable ns2 map. Was the map ever tested at any stage?
Nope, they never released it to anyone.
I also hear the map wouldn't have run very well, apparently the polygon count was through the roof.
Comments
In regards to that long corridor on the left of maintenance which it feature a "dip" like the original did?
Yeah that's the one I'm referring to so it should be ok. Will definitely fix this up in the near future.
Well it needs more testing but from playing it once I can tell you:
I am playing NS2 without that SSAO thing. The entire map is only greybox textures (that isn't a problem ofc) but in combination with the complete lack of any lights all walls look the same. It is really hard for the eye to understand the room's layout or shape, so a few normal lights and maybe shadows would be really helpful here.
The RT in Loading Bay gives skulks and lerks the option to hide underneath without marines being able to shoot them (maybe I just didn't find the way to do so, if so, please tell me). That should be never the case imo, especially not in the marines main RT room and it is very far out what makes it even more a problem. When the distance is that far it should be easier to hold.
The room around the RT in Data Core Alpha is too small. You can't move in there properly and one of the two exits is just crates you need to jump onto so the room feels even smaller.
The exit to the south side is narrow and without any cover, it feels aliens cannot engage marines there properly.
There are many spots on the map with LOS issues. You want the layout tested first but as Flaterectomy said you need to place atleast some crates or any other cover there. Without you cannot test balance because rooms or hallways are basically unusable for aliens.
I am also not sure about the marine natural RT placement. They seem far away and I found it very difficult to hold them.
Is the alien spawn fixed?
What is the purpose for the dead end in Loading Bay? I think it only gives aliens more options to hide in the marine main.
It also looks very ARC friendly but I haven't tested it yet.
I like the basic layout though, but I need to play it more to say really more about it.
Marines can cross to the otherside of the map to FAST, I still think you need to scale up the map by 1.5 or 2x
atleast if your not willing to try I may do a hera version
This was actually along the lines of what I was thinking.
- The entrance to DC Alpha has to be split up.
- Same with Vent Hive....was thinking of bringing this closer to MS so around Maintenance area. Also need to fix the entrances.
- The split between Cargo will need to happen. This will also address the issue @Loki raises.
I still disagree with the size @Loki. I just ran a few tests then sprinting as a marine on Summit with no weapons. Note: I bypassed Cargo as per the minimap suggestion by @Mephilles
Atrium/Sub = 34-36 seconds
Flight/DC = 28-30 seconds
on Hera:
Loading Bay/Data Core = 30 seconds
Archiving/Vent = 28 seconds
Loki, I've said it before and I will say it again....
But in all seriousness, you're always welcome to join me and we can tag team this bitch! :P
first off. You are all awesome.
Secondly. I've got a lot of hours and experience with porting over maps, and DMD last updated Hera about a month ago. It's on the back burner now for who knows how long. Loki is right.. Hera needs a 1.5 scale (1.0 can work but it's challenging!)
All in all - I've learned a lot. A few thousand hours is a lot of time in the editor!
NS2_dmd_Origin
80% complete.
Feels good. Really good. Needs occlusion, and a couple of corridor adjustments to account for NS1's A.D.H.O.C system.
(All Dat Hive... One Chain) (you can't have one entrance to a hive. Inconceivable! one marine = block all cysts)
NS2_dmd_Nancy (on the back burner as we have to re-work areas)
90% complete.
This map will realistically be scrapped. It is pretty awesome, but we've already got a workload.
NS2_dmd_Hera
95% complete.
(We work on it. It's at the bottom of the list. @Kalopsia - I can give you my feedback on OUR port for you to take into consideration on your own. I might also look at adding you as a contributor - pm me.
NS2_dmd_Metal
75% Complete.
NS_Orbital (Completed and published by Prevert Maximus)
I haven't seen Max in awhile. And there's issues with the last revision. I can't get a hold of him to make the changes we need.
So we're fixing the issues, re-balancing it and as always - feedback on NS2_dmd_Orbital is appreciated.
NS2_dmd_Ayumi
A good port, but it needs to be balanced.
We got really good feedback and we've had to backtrack to re-scale sections from 1.0 to 1.3 as suggested.
We ripped apart the hives completed and re-built them to accustom for A.D.H.O.C issues.
We've had some 45 minute games on there - but balancing is a serious pain in the butt.
NS2-vanilla changes
We've done some changes to the maps that we felt were needed. We did this using player feedback.
NS2_dmd_Biodome (agri labs is hard for aliens to hold (natural res tower) So we created a new area that's more protected for it called fruiting Silos)
NS2_dmd_Veil - We added weldable vents in nano and changed the catwalk at the back of cargo into a lift (elevator)
Recently we changed the nano weldable vents into breakables and added a Blast Door with visible timers to cut nano down the middle (activated by switch) - one power node on each side. It's been interesting, and we adjust according to user feedback and interests. A minor but needed Y-Junction adjustment is on the horizon.
NS2_dmd_docking has a vent added from (blank mind) - the outside area - into Central Access (weldable) for lerks / fades / jetpacks to utilize. Great hiding spot for a Gorge too
Moved the Resource Tower in Generator hive to a safer location.
Added Windows to both sides of Departures to create more visibility (allows Gorges more safety)
Added in a button on the catwalk. hrmmm... What does it do?
NS2_dmd_refinery.
A problem we noticed is that marines win about 75% of the time - and games generally are pretty short. So what we did was we removed the catwalk from North and South lava. Replaced it with a slow moving tram. Added power to South Lava. And finally, fixed some of the lanes between exchange and pipeworks. We've found Marine pushes have slowed WAY down and as such the average game-time on NS2_dmd_refinery is 45 - 60 minutes. Marines are winning 55% of the time.
NS2_Readyrooms
@WiseChoices and I had talked about it, but he went ahead and suprised me with this one. It's literally every readyroom compiled into one map. He did a great job and has been a real paramount in helping me with many map changes recently.
NS2_dmd_Bast
I started working on a port, however stopped after a few hundred hours as it just was extremely overwhelming. The amount of work this was going to take was astronomical (to do it properly).
The only way to do Bast is to re-create it (reboot) and build it to NS2 scale one room at a time. Some of you understand the workload entailed.
The issues I have with Bast is pathing, water, physics, mechanics, and expense associated to this map.
We would be looking at approximately 2,000 hours for Bast for it to be re-done properly.
@Yojimbo . I know you've been asking for Bast, but I'm really not sure DMD has the resources to get it done.
We would brush it really nicely. Add in dynamic props, and a big revolving door. We would love to do it though.
I haven't seen @Mendasp 's version (I think he has one ((tired)) but what exactly was wrong with it?
That's about it. @WiseChoices has been a huge help to me, and @Cabooble did a lot of scrubbing on the ports awhile back.
We literally removed every extra vertice, face, etc from each port in order to offer maximum performance for the NS2 community to enjoy. It was a lot of work to say the least. @AnnoyingMachine thank you as well.
I'll see if I can get some pictures posted of the maps. (PM me if you want a virtual tour
Also if anyone is interested in joining the DMD mapping team, just drop me a PM.
I'll teach you everything you need to know (and there's a LOT that I am still learning), and maybe you can teach me as well.
~Rusty
DiamondGamers.net
@Kalopsia Sorry... I wanted to post something quick about Hera, but it seems that I rambled with a bit more information during the wee hours of the night. Feel free to have a mod move this post to a new thread if it interferes with your post.
I have the entire autodesk suite
It's absolutely false. It depends on which country you're in, field (architecture vs biology), and if your university have an agreement from autodesk. There is a special education license. Then ask your doyen gently to get one. Play the lottery instead. Even if you get one, there are some limitations (read licence).
And now Blender comes in as a "nothing to envy" to 3ds (and others). Guess what a doyen do when he sees budget cuts everywhere. .. he says "use blender".
Granted there is a 30 days trial. But it's not with full access.
When you see "free", look for the star then read the fine lines.
I got that backup from the Internet too. But I am not interested in it anymore. Use Blender.
I didn't get mine from the internet per se, I work in education so it's one of the many perks, as long as I don't use it for profit which I never will do I'm not bothered
Okay. Well I did only create an account on autodesk website and it lets me download and use everything for three years. So I am okay with that lol.
But let's stop spamming this thread lol.
http://rr.tacticalgamer.com/Replay/Watch?serverName=Taunt&startTimeSeconds=1487906256&c=wTu2KLQj2eA,QOG6Nza7xW8
And this isn't the first fun game we've had recently on this build of ns2_hera. Thank you, @Kalopsia.
Just one thing : where are *.level of custom maps downloaded in the workshop ? Can't find them...
Not sure if I understood you correctly, but you can find maps that you download from the steam workshop in appdata/roaming/natural selection 2/workshop and then use the search function (ctrl + f), type in the map name and it will show the level file etc.
If that wasn't what you were asking, sorry XD
Just be aware that this map is cursed - all who attempt to make it have failed.
"stuck in development hell"
I think there are at least three unfinished versions of this map out there
edit: I really don't want to sound discouraging, it's more of a meme at this point that hera will be done because we used to semi-regularly get very high quality screenshots of a version of hera that was being worked on (i think it's the one psyk mentioned), but it ultimately went nowhere, after years
To be fair, while the screens looked indeed stunning, I believe the gameplay wouldn't be good. They showed giant rooms and huge LOS.
Creating the rooms on a smaller scale may not look as impressive, but could play well.
i agree, their hera remake looked fantastic however it did look as though there were some huge los issues. difficult to judge from just looking at the screenshots however. I assumed the prject was abandoned because it wasant going to work as an enjoyable ns2 map. Was the map ever tested at any stage?
Nope, they never released it to anyone.
I also hear the map wouldn't have run very well, apparently the polygon count was through the roof.