Update 313 (Kham Tutorial) is now Live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Posts: 466 vanilla
edited January 2017 in NS2 General Discussion
imageUpdate 312 (Kham Tutorial) is now Live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

A happy new year to all of you out there! I’ll bet some of you thought we hit the snooze button around the holidays and never woke up, but no!...

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Post edited by GhoulofGSG9 on
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  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Posts: 2,838 admin
    Bump
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 975 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    isn't that 313? fix title pls
    return to zero
  • ZycaRZycaR Members Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8263Posts: 544 Advanced user
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    Improved Cyst placement routines to ensure they are more consistently and evenly placed along paths.

    What does this mean? What changed?
    Fixed that Whips kept attacking invalid targets instead of searching for new targets.

    I assume this means that the whip will stop slapping at the air when there is nobody around, but does this also fix that whips hit for no damage?
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    With the 64-bits build in the works, it may be a suitable time to look into increasing the framerate cap of the engine from 200 to at least 240 since there are now a few 240hz monitors and probably will be more in the future.
    .trixX.
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Improved Cyst placement routines to ensure they are more consistently and evenly placed along paths.

    What does this mean? What changed?

    Before, when placing a cyst, it would find the closest connected cyst and map out a path from that cyst to where your mouse cursor was. As it "walked" along the path, it would place a cyst down whenever it reached the maximum distance a cyst can be from its neighbor. Then, a cyst was placed at the end, where the mouse cursor was. This never really felt all that polished, as cysts would jitter around on the path and not behave consistently. Worse, the cyst at the end of the path would rarely actually be underneath the mouse cursor. This change is just a very minor change that ensures that the cyst is always under the mouse cursor, and that the intermediate cysts that are created are spaced out evenly.

    Got it. Thanks.
  • nanonoobnanonoob Members Join Date: 2016-01-12 Member: 211315Posts: 17 Advanced user
    Good New Update we needed this!
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Posts: 1,551 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    Machine Gun (MG)
    Decreased weight to 0.21 (150% of the Grenade Launcher) from 0.26
    This change helps players with the MG to aim more quickly in combat and mobility.
    que?
    (good to see that the HMG is still on your radar guys)
    Too weird to live, yet too rare to die
    .trixX.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    was there always a marine buy sound?
  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    2cough wrote: »
    was there always a marine buy sound?

    Yes but it was broken and hidden until @Brute fixed that shiz
  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    Lerks are too powerfull in pubs now. i dont get it why u are constantly changing balances and made certain things powerfull or useless.

    25 health are 3 bullets. now straightline lerks can kill me only because they have more health than me time to shoot them. u are just supporting stupid lerk play.

    the lerk was okay how it was.
    wya3p5tg.png
    The_Welsh_Wizard.trixX.
  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Posts: 192 Advanced user
    I think lerks are fine, people just got used to play against a weak lifeform and lerks were being shy since a single rifle marine could take one down. Also, 25 hp is a single pistol shot if I remember correctly.
    Faded mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - Mod Guide )
    Defense mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - [url=""]Mod Guide (comming soon)[/url] )
    FlameSentry mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop )
    Nordic
  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    I think lerks are fine, people just got used to play against a weak lifeform and lerks were being shy since a single rifle marine could take REALLY BAD one down. Also, 25 hp is a single pistol shot if I remember correctly.

    Fixed that for you. Of course a marine can take down a trash lerk. but normally a descent lerk will always win a 1v1 against a rifle marine. but now even the most awful lerk can kill a marine with his tanky hp. in my experience aliens win so much rounds now. in 11 rounds since update 313 9 were won by the aliens.
    wya3p5tg.png
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Rammler wrote: »
    Lerks are too powerfull in pubs now. i dont get it why u are constantly changing balances and made certain things powerfull or useless.

    25 health are 3 bullets. now straightline lerks can kill me only because they have more health than me time to shoot them. u are just supporting stupid lerk play.

    the lerk was okay how it was.

    They changed it because they are thinking increasing HP is a good rebalance for the horrible hitbox change.

    Of course it doesn't work that Way. Sorry Nordic.
  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Posts: 192 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    True, but don't forget that a lerk cost 21 pres (counting 1 upgrade). It should be normal that a lerk is superior to a rifle marine, even for a regular lerk. Atm if you are not decent you could lose the engagement or leave wounded enough to require a pause to the hive, like a flying cannon fooder. Once shotguns are up lerks don't stand a chance for the same price anymore and endgame is really hard. Also, unlike fades a single mistake is often instant death as a lerk.
    Faded mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - Mod Guide )
    Defense mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - [url=""]Mod Guide (comming soon)[/url] )
    FlameSentry mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop )
    NordicNintendows
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Finally updated performance tools, and 64bit soon (or valve soon? :D )
    NS2
    Old/resigned Dutch Translation Lead. Give feedback about the translation, or help improve by clicking: Current NS2 Dutch translation project. Dutch players apply!
    NS2 Server Maintenance Manual
    WorkshopBackup Manual (WSB Server)
    Ingame: DCDarkling
    'DCDs Steam Workshop', for your NS2 X-Hairs and Viewmodel Weapon mods
    Viewmodels are the ones you hold in your hand, not the one shown in the world!

    Old NS2 Stuff:
    Marine Commander Guide NS2
    Alien Commander Guide NS2
    NS2 Mentor Program
    Old NS1 stuff:
    'Infested Pack v0.6' for models & props
    Darklings Guide to Commanding Version 1.001
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert TexasMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Posts: 2,829 admin
    edited January 2017
    Ooops, looks like this didn't make it into the change log, but now, modders, there is a new engine function "Client.GetIsSteamOverlayActive()" which can be useful for detecting afk players. (eg we've heard some people were working around AFK kicks by walking into a wall and then opening steam overlay to keep their key "down").
    .trixX.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    edited January 2017

    They changed it because they are thinking increasing HP is a good rebalance for the horrible hitbox change.

    Of course it doesn't work that Way. Sorry Nordic.
    I explained it to you in a semi long post in ghouls balance mod thread, and yet you still don't even understand. If you even read it, you have ignored large parts of the problem and the proposed solution robbing both of meaning. Given this simple of an understanding you have expressed, I can see why you think the change is so terrible.

    If you wish to offer constructive criticism of the change, do so. Please understand the actual reasoning behind it first though. This will net you better results.

    You call me out, but not IronHorse? He has been talking up the lerk changes in the forums more than I have been. .

    Rammler wrote: »
    25 health are 3 bullets.
    Those values were chosen because it resulted in a 2 more LMG bullets needing to kill a lerk in earlier stages of the game. Don't forget that biomass scaling was also reduced.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    IronHorse
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    I read your other Parts of your Post too. The problem I see with it is, that none of your described problems are valid reasons for the change. I think I already told you when we spoke about this.

    I understand that the reasoning makes sense from a UWE standpoint, but I dislike their standpoint, so I have no real interest to discuss this here.
  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    Once shotguns are up lerks don't stand a chance for the same price anymore and endgame is really hard.

    Sorry i can't discuss with you when u dont even know the purposes of the lifeform. this sentence shows perfectly your pub-mentality and that u have a wrong picture of how to play a lerk.

    wya3p5tg.png
    caperpHandschuh
  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Posts: 192 Advanced user
    Thanks for enlighting me, I am always glad to meet openminded people willing to help in a pedagogic manner. I won't say that it shows perfectly your comp-mentality since it would be quiete unpolite for people I played with on my last nsl match.

    To stay on topic, and speaking about comp 6v6 games you are right. After my match people were talking about it, how a rifle marine could not anymore have enough DPS to get a lerk in a single clip unless he does miss one byte, or how it affects a meatshot taking into account the spread pattern. This assumes a good accuracy and I am far from it, however I understand the concept. It felt good to be a rookie again and placed room for improvement I can learn from.

    On my side 25 hp is only a single pistol shot or 2 rifle shot and I think this difference could only be relevance to div players, where each missed hit has a huge timing impact on if a lifeform is out of combat or alive. Otherwise for less skilled players like me this is more a question of how, when and where the engagment occures that matter.
    Faded mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - Mod Guide )
    Defense mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - [url=""]Mod Guide (comming soon)[/url] )
    FlameSentry mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop )
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 864 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    Nice update, i couldn't track down the specific change in the log for it, but i got a ~20fps boost :D

    @Rammler & @Katzenfleisch : you two are back to the age old argument: should they balance the game for pub or for comp?
    Boosting the lerk HP is kinda cheesy, considering the previous flawed (in my view) hitbox change. They already played this with the skulks, remember? Marines were stomping unashamed, so they boosted the skulks HP (instead of reverting the hitboxes).
    I'm not a comp player so I don't know the nuances regarding lerkplay, but even I can imagine the impact the HP increase results in.

    I'm really grateful for the technical improvements, but can't the devs please leave the balancing alone for a bit? Pretty-please? x)
    I also don't see the real reason for lerk HP increase... the games i've been playing looked balanced if the teams were equal to begin with.
    Post edited by .trixX. on
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • usermcwusermcw Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58349Posts: 15 Fully active user
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 864 Advanced user
    n00b @IronHorse ... he can't even get out of a vent x)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    usermcwThe_Welsh_WizardIronHorse
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 975 Advanced user
    @Rammler @The_Welsh_Wizard it is surpring how our view on this differs. You might have a point there but everytime (or atleast 90% of the time) there is a balance change in vanilla I see you guys complaining how broken it is and it usually takes you less than 24 hours. It is quite outstanding that you see imbalance that fast and all the effects it carries. You probably have adapted your playstyle to every change like 80 times in 24 hours to see that there is no way to adapt to that change.

    I would probably need to take like a couple of days/weeks to figure out how to deal with balance changes in a way that I can clearly say it is OP.
    return to zero
    Nordic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    @Rammler @The_Welsh_Wizard it is surpring how our view on this differs. You might have a point there but everytime (or atleast 90% of the time) there is a balance change in vanilla I see you guys complaining how broken it is and it usually takes you less than 24 hours. It is quite outstanding that you see imbalance that fast and all the effects it carries. You probably have adapted your playstyle to every change like 80 times in 24 hours to see that there is no way to adapt to that change.

    I would probably need to take like a couple of days/weeks to figure out how to deal with balance changes in a way that I can clearly say it is OP.

    You should realize that most parts in my posts are not about balance.

    Sorry but it is annoying, in the beginning of the "change everything" era I gave constructive feedback why things are bad. The only response I ever got was either: 1.) We don't care. Or: 2.) You are a hater and hate changes in general without valid reasons.

    It is 2.) what you seem to think too and if that is what you read out of my posts, I have no interest in giving you a proper answer to your post.

    You are a nice guy Meph, but your attitude on some things is just bad.
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 975 Advanced user
    I would describe my attitude as open to any change if willing to give it a chance. If something changes and forces me (and everyone else) to think and play differently then I am happy to explore the new possibilities
    return to zero
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