shuffle vote / balance

greenhorsegreenhorse Join Date: 2014-11-11 Member: 199605Members Posts: 12 Fully active user
Hi everybody !

Sometimes players on a higher skill team don't want to vote for re-shuffle.

May be it makes sense to let only lower skill team players vote or assign more
weight to their votes ?

IMO, If majority (1/2 or 2/3 or 90%) of players on the lower skill team want
to re-shuffle then teams should be reshuffled.

May be difference in skill can be taken into account. If difference is small (<10%)<br> then more votes are needed for reshuffle. If difference is large less votes are needed.
maD maX


  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,825 admin
    The bigger issue is that people have this weird idea that shuffled teams are always somehow worse than teams picked entirely randomly. I'm always trying to encourage people to shuffle, but then there's always some dude on the other team proclaiming "no, don't shuffle, shuffle's broke! It's better to let us stack teams and later say it would have been worse with shuffle than to use shuffle and get pretty close to an even game!". May be remembering that wrong... :P
  • greenhorsegreenhorse Join Date: 2014-11-11 Member: 199605Members Posts: 12 Fully active user
    I don't think anybody will dispute a fact that avg teams skills
    (doesn't matter was it after a shuffle or random joins) usually predict game outcome.

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,718 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    The bigger issue is that people have this weird idea that shuffled teams are always somehow worse than teams picked entirely randomly.
    The root cause of this is the small player base combined with incredibly vast skill differences.

    Shuffle balances teams by having equal average hive skill and standard deviation of hive skill. The standard deviation of hive skill is a numerical measure of how wide a range of skills are on the team. It is a basic measure of how near skilled a team is. Without using any math anyone could say that a match that has the lowest skilled of players and the highest skilled of players in the same server will not result in quality games very often.

    This is the sad fact of NS2. We have a small player base and incredibly vast skill differences. This can make it seem like hive skill or shuffling is meaningless, because that is what the player experience can be like. It is not that shuffle is broke, but that shuffle can only do so much with what it is given. To the player, if it does not work like they think it should, then it must be broke.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • maD maXmaD maX Join Date: 2010-01-28 Member: 70347Members Posts: 349 Fully active user
    edited September 2016
    I am very much in favor of the original suggestion!! As it is I prefer shuffled teams over pre-shuffled teams 98% of the time, because hive is WAY less broken then people are!

    See this every other day... Join a server after a map change and someone says "don't shuffle, hive skill is so broken. We shuffled last game and it was so stacked!" Then I hit tab to see that this player is on a team with 1900 hive skill and the other team has 900.

    Needed improvements to shuffle-
    1. anti-stack limit- if one team has 50% higher hive skill and the game does not start within 1 min start a shuffle vote.
    2. Friend selector- both players Must select each other, so everyone doesn't just select the best guy playing.
    3. Race selector- choose alien or marine preference.

    Half the time "stacked" games are way closer then players realize.
    1. Commander saying GG were down to 2 RTs because you guys can protect them...not realizing that the other commander is down to 1 RT.
    2. A pro-lerk just flashed and that the teams were fine but the rines got a early game boost.
    3. There are two 3000 hive skill players on each team. All you see as a 1500 hive skill is two players that you can't kill and that you rush pointlessly over and over...
    4. Team balance fail! Your on a 10v10 reserve slot server with 21 people. It's 11v10 and someone leaves... Now it's 11v9 and a full server and no one notices.
    5. We all have bad, good, and sometimes great games. I average 25% accuracy, on occasion I'll have a game where I feel god-like hitting 39%! Sometimes I'll miss everything and hit 15%... Is that a stack? No!

    Add all that with the "law of the squeaky wheel" how many times have you heard "great game that was close"??? Now compare that to "great game that was close, shuffle is amazing!" No one credits shuffle for good games.
    Post edited by maD maX on
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