Subnautica vs No Man's Sky
Coranth
Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Members
Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Members
1. WORLD
Subnautica: Hand-crafted single world, planet 4546-B; no deformable Terrain (though this used to be in, it was removed for optimization purposes), but everything hand-placed, unique Biomes filled with even more unique creatures.
No Man's Sky: Massive universe, something like 18 quintilian planets but it's procedurally generated by an algorithm; lifeforms are also procedurally generated.
2. LIFE
No Man's Sky: Species in No Man's Sky are procedurally-generated, and can be affected by a number of factors such as the player, surrounding area, environment, or location. Plant lifeforms can range from the purple bio-luminescent mushrooms showcased on Sayall, to the green grass and trees of New Ventu, while creatures include both the towering Daplokarus and the small fish-like Ictaloris Alus. All flora and fauna in the game is mathematically generated using a series of algorithms, rather than being individually designed. Fauna can be fed to befriend them. The food needed to befriend an animal varies by species, but is usually easy to obtain on their native planet. Befriended animals have a smiley-face icon. Befriended fauna will occasionally give you gifts of a small amount of a neutral element or point out interesting features. Fauna can also be killed to obtain resources, and can be scanned after they've been killed. Hostile, aggressive fauna that are near the player are indicated by a red paw icon; they will attack and try kill the player when in range.
Subnautica: Species in Subnautica are not procedurally-generated; instead each Biome contains its own distinct flora and fauna. Plant lifeforms can range from the purple bio-luminescent acid mushrooms in the Safe Shallows, to the massive Creepvines of the Kelp Forest, to the odd Ming and Bulbo Trees of the Floating Island, while creatures include both the fearsome Reaper Leviathan and the small Peeper fish. Some fauna - the Stalker - can be fed to befriend them; they will reward you with Scrap that can be turned into Titanium. The animals are not 'deliberately' hostile; it doesn't 'feel' gamey; Stalkers - for example - will go after you, but they'll go after anything they see as prey, and will give up after a while. Bonesharks are highly aggressive and will bang on your Seamoth. The Rabbit Rays are friendly and will (at some point) be able to take things from your hand like the Stalkers. We will be getting a Cutefish pet that we can interact with.
3. MARKETING
No Man's Sky: Epic fail. No Man's Sky was hyped up and then Hello Games didn't deliver. They weren't open with their customers and in the end a lot of things were cut. Failed dreams and broken promises. Feels like an alpha.
Subnautica: Friendly, open community. The developers of the game often chime in with what's going on / what they're doing, etc. We can have some influence on how the game is developed (oxygen tanks fiasco?) and the devs may or may not change things based on what we like or don't. Feedback on bugs and issues can be given from inside the game itself, and there is a HUGE Trello, a board where everything that's being worked on is displayed openly for our perusal. Playtesters from this community frequent the Trello to report bugs and issues. The devs are awesome, friendly, and so open with us it's uber-cool; they even gave us a video tour of where they went on vacation!
The game is in Early Access with two branches - experimental and stable - and if something is going to be cut the Devs clearly explain why (terraforming?) The game - even without story - is playable, though there are of course bugs if you go experimental.
Uhhh... anyone else want to add to this?
Subnautica: Hand-crafted single world, planet 4546-B; no deformable Terrain (though this used to be in, it was removed for optimization purposes), but everything hand-placed, unique Biomes filled with even more unique creatures.
No Man's Sky: Massive universe, something like 18 quintilian planets but it's procedurally generated by an algorithm; lifeforms are also procedurally generated.
2. LIFE
No Man's Sky: Species in No Man's Sky are procedurally-generated, and can be affected by a number of factors such as the player, surrounding area, environment, or location. Plant lifeforms can range from the purple bio-luminescent mushrooms showcased on Sayall, to the green grass and trees of New Ventu, while creatures include both the towering Daplokarus and the small fish-like Ictaloris Alus. All flora and fauna in the game is mathematically generated using a series of algorithms, rather than being individually designed. Fauna can be fed to befriend them. The food needed to befriend an animal varies by species, but is usually easy to obtain on their native planet. Befriended animals have a smiley-face icon. Befriended fauna will occasionally give you gifts of a small amount of a neutral element or point out interesting features. Fauna can also be killed to obtain resources, and can be scanned after they've been killed. Hostile, aggressive fauna that are near the player are indicated by a red paw icon; they will attack and try kill the player when in range.
Subnautica: Species in Subnautica are not procedurally-generated; instead each Biome contains its own distinct flora and fauna. Plant lifeforms can range from the purple bio-luminescent acid mushrooms in the Safe Shallows, to the massive Creepvines of the Kelp Forest, to the odd Ming and Bulbo Trees of the Floating Island, while creatures include both the fearsome Reaper Leviathan and the small Peeper fish. Some fauna - the Stalker - can be fed to befriend them; they will reward you with Scrap that can be turned into Titanium. The animals are not 'deliberately' hostile; it doesn't 'feel' gamey; Stalkers - for example - will go after you, but they'll go after anything they see as prey, and will give up after a while. Bonesharks are highly aggressive and will bang on your Seamoth. The Rabbit Rays are friendly and will (at some point) be able to take things from your hand like the Stalkers. We will be getting a Cutefish pet that we can interact with.
3. MARKETING
No Man's Sky: Epic fail. No Man's Sky was hyped up and then Hello Games didn't deliver. They weren't open with their customers and in the end a lot of things were cut. Failed dreams and broken promises. Feels like an alpha.
Subnautica: Friendly, open community. The developers of the game often chime in with what's going on / what they're doing, etc. We can have some influence on how the game is developed (oxygen tanks fiasco?) and the devs may or may not change things based on what we like or don't. Feedback on bugs and issues can be given from inside the game itself, and there is a HUGE Trello, a board where everything that's being worked on is displayed openly for our perusal. Playtesters from this community frequent the Trello to report bugs and issues. The devs are awesome, friendly, and so open with us it's uber-cool; they even gave us a video tour of where they went on vacation!
The game is in Early Access with two branches - experimental and stable - and if something is going to be cut the Devs clearly explain why (terraforming?) The game - even without story - is playable, though there are of course bugs if you go experimental.
Uhhh... anyone else want to add to this?
Comments
No Man's Sky: 60 $
That and the ending of NMS literally just resets your game.
Oh my god I know; I saw that on Youtube! What a crock! Subnautica will actually have an ending, and we know what's involved in it. One other thing I can add is the near-instant fixing of show-stopper bugs by the Devs. Once Subnautica crashed with an Access Violation at a certain place. I told the Devs about the problem and emailed the logs, and roughly a day or so later they put out a fix!
Top class!
Apparently Hello Games forgot that exploration is about discovering things, not wandering aimlessly and looking at pallet-swaps forever.
SN: A living, breathing world, meticulously crafted by hand down to the smallest details. Multiple biomes, all very distinct from one another, with unique flora, fauna, and available resources. Giant predators that can scare the crap out of you with just a roar long before you can see them. Diverse plants that can be farmed as a source of food and water. Believable creatures that interact with one another and the player character. An actual ecosystem that player can affect. Various means of transport for various purposes. Giant crashed spaceship that we can explore and partially fix to save the environment. Mysterious abandoned bases we can explore. Even more mysterious precursors and their giant gun. Storyline that gradually unfolds and promises a great adventure. PRAWN suit for gathering, enough said. No epic space battles, but you can go poke a reaper instead and count his teeth while he's chewing on your seamoth. If that ain't epic, then nothing is.
TL;DR: No Man's Sky murdered my patience after about 20 hours of gameplay. I was so bored that just the thought of going back to that world made me cringe. I've logged 150 hours in Subnautica so far, and I'm still giddy starting a new game here.
No Man's Sky is nothing but a planet hopping romp. You land, scan, take off, occasionally upgrade yoru ship, rinse and repeat. Even worse is how the science is off. Every planet you set foot on is a one biome world, and when you explore enough of those (especially because survival is easy) the game becomes boring...
Subnautica is only one planet, but it has quite a few biomes to explore. It makes you learn to survive the planet first (listening and watching the wildlife so you know which are dangerous or edible), with exploration being the reward for setting yourself up well. And while you don't get to pilot a space ship, you get the awesome Cyclops...
Oh... and unlike No Man's Sky, where the developers were all secretive about their game then charging the AAA price for it, the devs for Subnautica put their game out for others to try while still developing it, and they do listen to players (makes me remember the mess that was Starwars Galaxies, where the devs banned players for speaking out against their game)... And all this for $20 (U.S.).
I'd bet that Subnautica will not be $20 when it's done... and IMO it shouldn't be. With new games typically retailing at $60 these days, there's no reason for the devs to sell cheap for a quality product they've put all this time and effort into. We all got it at $20, but we have to deal with all the bugs during the development process, and we provide the devs with essentially free playtesting, while also helping to fund the development with that $20. So it's a win-win - we get an awesome game cheap, they get the funds and the feedback. But when it's all done and polished, I expect the game will be at least $40, and if it's only $40, then I think it'd be a great bargain.
I remember seeing it so long ago and they were promising so much, but even what they promised didn't seem that different from other games. Even if they delivered all they promised it still wouldn't have been as good as a heavily modded X3.
Okay so you could land on planets, but they looked boring and lifeless, despite being full of alien life.
I don't know, it always felt like the only thing it had was the procedural generation gimmick, and I was really surprised so many people thought it looked exciting. I felt like it was lots of console gamers who'd never experienced a game with the scope and depth of the X series, who didn't realise that relatively little-known games were breaking new ground on the PC every year, and the boundaries they thought were in place had actually been pushed back a couple of miles while they were playing with their game pads.
I'm not trying to be PC master race either, just saying how it felt to me.
i know it has nothing to do with the quality of NMS but when devs have to lie and scam you into buying a game, chances are it's not good. also can someone tell me why they sell NMS at 60 bucks, meanwhile subnautica can be across the board a better game at one third the price?
add on top of that, NMS is a "complete" game while subnautica is early access, like srsly why is this even a question ^^
NMS:
I.E. Cookiecutter critters who have short attention spans, look ridiculous, ignore you when being shot, fall to less than a clip and will only attack when you get close.
SN:
I.E. Among other smaller creatures, a f*&king massive eel-shark that can tear your subs to shreds, give you nightmares and paranoia even when you're experienced with circumventing them, are practically invincible, and when they're pissed? THEY WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!!!.
Oh no his seamoth broke near a REAPER!
Than You Know You're screwed
Thank you, Unknown Words Entertainment. You gave us a moster more terrifying than Mass Effect's Reapers or Resident Evil's mutant monstrosities...
I'll just refer you to the post I made 3 above yours, which sums up why I feel this is so.
God I remember that game... I haven't checked on it in a while but I since gave up on it ever seeing the light of day.
What's more disheartening that garbage like this being produced is that people haven't wizened up and still buy content deprived games hyped up to be the new sliced bread. By doing that, they proof to publishers and developers they don't need to create games with compelling game design but instead can rely on hype and pre-orders to make a profit.
And that's the difference between No Man's Sky and Subnautica: Unknownworlds is focusing on game design, not hype. They are adding content, not promising it. They are transparent in their work, not trying to obfuscate failures, make excuses or straight up censor criticism.
Currently I see games where procendural is used as disassociated parts; monster, plants and land. In the real world the environment influences the plants and the animals. The plant isn't growing on that by chance, it's evolved to grow in that weather, that amount of light and that type of terrain. The animal that eats it has evolved the ability to locate it and consume it as well is survive in the conditions that plants grows in. The same follows with predators (technically the plant/herbivore is predator/prey).
This isn't to say this isn't done correct in Subnautica as well as other games but when a human places something in the environment there's some extra thought; conscious or not behind it.
Of course with games you need only have the illusion that it fits that it belongs there. You can cheat by making it aggresive that people less about why its there and more along the lines of "Uhhh yikes, that *thing* is there!" like say a Reaper Leviathin or a Fallout Deathclaw. Neither really makes sense but they're intimidating so you stop worrying about function.
Kinda like why FPS monsters get away with existing. Aggresive threats and energy gives you less time to think about the surroundings so devs can cheat since hey exploration isn't the goal so much. Kinda of like a painting, you can blur out the background since the creature is the subject matter.
Back when Subnautica was in its infancy the developers were aiming at a procedurally generated world and even asked for us to have a go at it (some of you may remember the subnautica terrain test), when they couldn't get satisfactory quality they moved on to a hand crafted world. They weren't so conceited to think that their first idea was best. They tried terraforming and it worked, but compromised performance, so they removed it. Their open style of development meant/means that if something was going to be changed we would know about it, but more importantly we would know why.
NMS on the other hand, refused to share any concrete information, except a couple minutes of trailer. So that when features that had been promised weren't delivered (perhaps with good reasons), people were rightfully angry. Hello Games had committed to too much and gave themselves no way to scale back. On top of everything they let the hype go to their heads and hiked the price up.
Unknown Worlds know their limitations and are making what they can do perfect, Hello Games didn't know their limits and just added more and more half-baked things (18 Quintilian things to be precise).
Hopefully Subnautica can capitalise on the many disenfranchised NMS fans and reward the devs. Maybe it will also promote this open style of development to many more indie/early-access titles.
Yes there are missing features but most of them are trivial (like landing on asteroid, radio chatter, etc.). Some people also expected things that we knew since long ago would not be there at launch (multiplayer). Sure, there are valid complaints (ship classes, faction wars,, etc) but it's not like most of them could not have been forseen (it's an indie game after all).
Like the lack of planet variation for instance. That was clearly to be expected. The game is procedurally generated. That means that sand planets or ice planets, while they exist, are an extreme situation, and that the vast majority of the 18 quintillions planets are not going to be one of those extremes, but something in between. By definition too, procedural generation means you can be unlucky and get 5 planets in a row which are fairly identical, or be lucky and, like me, get 5 planets in a row which are each unique.
And it's not true when they say that going on more difficult planets is not rewarding so why bother. I for instance found a planet with very hostile sentries and very harsh climate, but where I could find "Gravitino Ball" lying all around. I made 500K in 30 min. And with this climate, there are very few animals leaving there, meaning it's easier to scan them all and get a bonus 200K.
On combat, it was clear from the beginning that it would be pretty crappy, because that game has not been designed as a FPS or a flight simulator. Yes, fighting and flying are part of it but even from the look of the gameplay videos from way back, it was clear it was going to be secondary. Look at how Star Citizen is struggling to do the same with 100 million $ budget and hundreds of people.
Maybe it's because I watched a lot of Sean Murray's interviews but I feel like the final product is very close to what I had in mind. As soon as I saw the first interview and gameplay, I thought "Ok, this is going to be like "Out There" but in 3D", and that's exactly what it is (so kuddos to me I guess).
Sure, it's going to get boring after a while but aren't all solo games the same ? I've seen players complain even though they had +40 hours of gameplay clocked in... it hardly seems fair.
Bottom line is: if this game had popped up suddenly on Steam for 20$, it would instantly have become the game of the year. but because of the hype and people expecting way more of it than possible for a 15 people team, some executive saw this as an opportunity to make big bucks and decided to increase marketing, thus increasing the hype, and jack the price up to meet expectation even though it was impossible to live up to people's dream. Everybody should have seen this coming (and many did).
The only good news is that the small team of Hello Games is now loaded and will be able to improve the game like crazy. I'm betting you that one year from now, while you're cruising space in a freight ship with your VR googles on, you'll be glad you bought it.
Which is a shame because if the game was cheaper even with its flaws I would have bought it and probably enjoyed it at least a little, but the game is not worth the money.
Another comparison...SN will run on my old Toshiba with integrated graphics. NMS probably won't, and I'm not willing to spend $60 rolling THOSE dice.
No Man's Sky is not a bad game itself, but I think its developers reached too far and caused alot of grief with their playerbase. To me Subnautica is honest with its approach: A simple game that's fun and immersive, and lives up to most people's expectations that the development team of UWE have put forth so far.
I've wondered about this myself, a game this polished and fun (in pre-release no less!) won't retail for $20 for sure. I kinda hope that players who bought into early access can get a small discount when the game launches, or some kind of bonus content for supporting the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely buying it regardless when it launches, as it has been a wonderful experience and money well spent.
P.S. I know there's a Cutefish pet bonus coming for Early Access players.
Whereas in NMS you can't crash your ship no matter how much of a doofus you are when speeding over the terrain.
If you got it in Early Access you don't need to "re-buy" the Game when it releases; you have it; it's yours forever, and that's a steal!