1.04e Beta Is Now Playtesting...

Catpoker · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Thoughts?</div> i noticed on the beta servers that 1.04E is out,

i have played around and noticed that fades are now 54 resources

any other changes people have noticed

P.S. not known, but it LOOKS like the nade radus is reduced (maybe just the sprite, or i am just seeing things)

pardzh · January 2003

I played that game with you, Cat, and to be honest, I couldn't garner many thoughts from it. The Marines played rather... bad.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

It'd be interesting to see how the Fades res. cost change effects gameplay in a real match, one that comes right down to the wire for the sake of Hive #2. Hopefully I can get a real game in sometime.

Catpoker · January 2003

just played a game in the same server,

a guy named alpha hoped in comm and we phase rushed and empty and sieged the main hive

first marine win i have seen in a long time on a 1.04 beta server (not the first though)

QuantumSlip · January 2003

changelog here:
<a href='http://forums.joe.to/viewtopic.php?t=7077' target='_blank'>http://forums.joe.to/viewtopic.php?t=7077</a>

Catpoker · January 2003

w00t! i was hoping for a change log <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

geldonyetich · January 2003

That fade cost change is going to make a big difference. Need to gain not just 11 more resources but 21 resources before you can become a fade [after the 33 you gathered from being a one-hive skulk]. It appears Fades are remaining as nasty as before, but they're going to be alot harder to earn the resources to evolve and re-evolve into them.

AcKz · January 2003

sigh

RUAewok · January 2003

Well I think dropping Lerk cost to 30 and putting Fade at 50 might be the better idea but lets see how this goes first.

geldonyetich · January 2003

Remember what earlier 1.04 versions have introduced when your saying that:

Lerk umbra potency has been reduced from blocking 6 out of 7 bullets to blocking 3 out of 4 bullets.
Lerk spike damage has been increased 2 pts/hit (was 16, now 18).

So the Lerk won't be so nasty. I suspect alot of people will prefer to try to save up for a Fade. However, that added spike damage should help.

Daphisto · January 2003

I can't believe such drastic changed are being made to a game that is generally, already equally balanced.

Madjai · January 2003

wow that extra 10 resources is gonna be a big problem... i see two things happening with this change, 1. marines will have a much greater chance at taking the second or first hive of the aliens after theyve secured one empty hive, and 2. fades will be more afraid of dying because of the long wait to become a fade again (and i dont think that caraspace change helped either)

JKooL · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daphisto @ Jan 15 2003, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I can't believe such drastic changed are being made to a game that is generally, already equally balanced.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Is this person on crack?!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

-JKooL

TenSix · January 2003

Thing that concerns me is how res nozzles are more important to Aliens then Marines. I have seen many many many times where 1/2 if not all of the Marine team was in HA with a HMG/GL while they only held 2 or 3 nodes.

Those same 2 or 3 nodes will do about shiznits for Aliens. Its like having 1 node. I mean your splitting a few res between a dozen or so people, plus Gorges, not counting any unwanted Gorges (which btw, I was hoping would be addressed).

BTW, they also DECREASED Carapace effectivness by 3%...possibly because Carapace was enabling Aliens to avoid being killed by grenades far to much.

Im starting to wonder if those "big changes" for the Lerk promised in 1.1 are actually going to be another round of nerfs....maybe take away their ability to fly? Make Umbra heal any Marines within it's radius?

Purelace · January 2003

So now marines with level 3 weapons won't merely "negate" the carapace effect, they'll outright butcher skulks with their weapons. Someone want to post a chart showing the number of bullets it takes to kill a skulk at each level of carapace and with each level of weapon for this new change?

Savant · January 2003

The extra 10 res for fade will be a big problem in many cases because there are no restrictions on the number of gorges. In larger games when you get 3-4 people gorging, the resources will come in so slow that you'll never make it to fade.

If you ask me the increase in the cost of fade was a knee-jerk reaction to people's complaints about fades being too powerful. Instead of looking deeper into the problem, they just slapped a 10 res increase on it.

The reality is that with armor/ammo upgrades it's quite easy to kill fades with an LMG.

We'll see how things go with patch, I suspect marines will now win 90% instead of 75% of games. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Regards,

Savant

Catpoker · January 2003

Savant, try playing on small to medum servers (8-16 players) and see how many times marines win with the 1.04 beta patches

i play mostly on homelan 1.04 beta and let me tell you, once fades get going.... gg

this will slow down fades so they cant just pop right back up after death

Carbon14 · January 2003

I'm sorry, but all these changes seem to be doing is making the aliens less and less powerful. On the servers I play on, aliens win most of the time, and for a while there I thought that the marines needed to be more powerfull.

My oppinion changed when I played a few rounds as marines. At the moment the marines are really REALLY bad at teamwork. For instance I was near a hive, and the comm drops a phase near me, I manage to complete the phase, but soon after a bunch of skulks start hanging around and parasiting. I typed the message "Go through the phase" a few times, and so was the comm. No one comes through, I soon die and get the beautifull view of a bunch marines standing at the spawn loading up on ammo, and asking for better weapons.

All I can say, is that when people start to actually understand this game, things will need to be changed back, or the aliens will just get repeatedly owned.

Legend92 · January 2003

I would like some 1.04 server ips. I have like 1, but it seems to be full most the time.

Anyways, what I have played from 1.04 servers. Things seem pretty good if you got people who know what they are doing. The cost of phase gate is increased but tf cost is decreased. Weld is decreased by 3(which makes sense to me). These changes seem to be disliked by lots of people but you all seem to be playing on servers with little or no team work at all. I do agree that the fades are too strong, but they are not too strong when it comes to HA+HMG+full lvl 3 upgrades. Even still, the level 3 upgrades are not needed to take a single fade out if you take it by surprise or just get lucky some how. normaly though, the fades are normaly on the winning side. I should know since I rarly die as fade, I die like.... 30 marine kills and ill die once. Thats how strong fades are, I say its ridiculos.

These changes seem to be good to me. I see why they are being changed, you cannot forget the fact that there is noramly defence chambers near by for fades to heal back up which would result in what I get 30 kills 1 death, possible even better. Fade + gorge + lerk = deadly team.

Edit: I was talking about 1.03 servers when I said the 30 and 1 death.

Purelace · January 2003

These patches are being put out to balance clanplay, not public play. You'll never have the game be completely balanced for both clanplay AND public play, and focusing on the clan aspects is much more important at the moment. This being because there are far more imbalances with clanplay right now, and there's too many variables to work with if you balance for a public setting. These are things like, teamwork of team a, b, number of players, skill level of the players, etc. In a clan setting, those variables become much more static, and it becomes easier to identify problem areas in gameplay. Logging on to a random pub and seeing the aliens crushing the marines with onos is not grounds to make a balance assessment. What holds true for one pub setting (on a server with lower skilled players, less teamwork), wont be the same as another (say, a skilled clan's server, with a lot of experienced players all around).

CrazedMonkOnaMission · January 2003

how about, instead of increasing base fade cost by 10 R and reducing carapace bonus, why not increase upgrade costs for aliens similiar to marine system? If for instance you go lvl 1 carapace, 2 R, lvl 2 a further 4 R, and lvl 3 a further 6 R (figures just off the top of my head)

Barbarian · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazed Monk On a Mission @ Jan 15 2003, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>how about, instead of increasing base fade cost by 10 R and reducing carapace bonus, why not increase upgrade costs for aliens similiar to marine system? If for instance you go lvl 1 carapace, 2 R, lvl 2 a further 4 R, and lvl 3 a further 6 R (figures just off the top of my head)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This man is wise.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'>

Kitsune · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Purelace @ Jan 15 2003, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So now marines with level 3 weapons won't merely "negate" the carapace effect, they'll outright butcher skulks with their weapons. Someone want to post a chart showing the number of bullets it takes to kill a skulk at each level of carapace and with each level of weapon for this new change?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
<brief calm moment>
Actually, that's untrue. 70% of 130% results in 91%, meaning that weapon upgrade 3 vs. carapace 3 was still a net loss on the marine side. 79% of 130% results in 102.7%, a faint edge to the marines, but it doesn't do any outright butchering of carapaced aliens. And the uncarapaced aliens will be unaffected by that change, so hopefully regen and redemption will be more commonly used in the future.
</brief calm moment>

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!! I HAVE TO REDO ALL OF THOSE DAMAGE CHARTS! WHY DOES GOD TORMENT ME SO?!
<keel over>
<die>
<...>

<rise from the grave>
I'll post an updated page of damage charts once I'm done with all the new calculations. Shouldn't be more than a couple hours.

Driftwood · January 2003

I'd say that Fade becoming 54 res instead of 44 is to counter aliens hitting their mid-game earlier than roughly equally skilled marines. Might be a good change since it delays the appearance of fades and makes them watch their step a bit more. However, that extra 10 res can be a pain in certain situations. It forces aliens to excercise self-restraint, which in pubs is not the most common thing around.

Well, time will tell. Right now it sounds like a positive change. Lerks seeing more use is all well and good, but I'm a bit concerned about them seeing more action. Main fighting force of the Kharaa in mid-game should be Fades with couple of Lerks supporting them and fighting their own guerrilla war. Lerks being now 21 res cheaper than Fades may encourage their use a bit too much. But, cautious thumbs up.

Edit: However, upcoming big changes in 1.1 with Lerk make any speculation about the class useless right now. The whole alien class balance may change with 1.1 so I wouldn't hail the 1.04e as the doom of Kharaa.

JKooL · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Jan 15 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>BTW, they also DECREASED Carapace effectivness by 3%...possibly because Carapace was enabling Aliens to avoid being killed by grenades far to much.

Im starting to wonder if those "big changes" for the Lerk promised in 1.1 are actually going to be another round of nerfs....maybe take away their ability to fly? Make Umbra heal any Marines within it's radius?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Great idea's! The damn lerk shouldn't be able to fly... WHAT A h@x0rzr!!!!

Seriously, you need to get out and play marine more <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

-JKooL

Aphon · January 2003

and i thought it was fine before... shows what i know

GeENiE · January 2003

Increased delay on phase gates so a player can only use one every 2 seconds (reduces chance of telefrag exploit)

i sugested that <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

J2pc · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Driftwood- @ Jan 15 2003, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>However, upcoming big changes in 1.1 with Lerk make any speculation about the class useless right now. The whole alien class balance may change with 1.1 so I wouldn't hail the 1.04e as the doom of Kharaa.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This is the smartest thing I've seen for a loooooong time on this forum

Everybody screaming and shouting before they even got hurt

Alien-player: aaah, they nerfed cara/umbra upped fade
Marine-player: aaah, I've got to see the hive, I can't siege 2 from 1 loc

C'mon, deal with it, cut the crap

/me waits desperate for v1.1 and for lots of NS-players to evolve some common sense

Immacolata · January 2003

Common sense? Heh, they'll always be 20% cool blooded and 80% frightened chickens.

Anyways, 54 is a lot aye, it would push back fades for aliens with about 2 minutes. This is also a reason for a gorge not to spend his life savings on Walls of Lame - he'll hurt the players waiting for their fade time as well. I smell upcoming lerk proliferance. Even if an umbra is 75% bullet proof now it should be a help to the fragile lerk - I find they die FAR too fast even with carapace <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Donwgrading carapace? Well why that? Was it unbalancing? Perhaps it was.... but it is somewhat making a 54 pt fade less good than he used to if he goes carapace.

Let's see how things turn out. It means less games where fades roam the map super fast.

bigjangin · January 2003

1.04e is awesome. Just got out of a round where we had one hive but then we ended up losing it. Our level 3 weapons and armor finished soon after. Against level 3 carapace, I could kill fades with ONE clip. One clip of LMG. We took one hive back with only lmg. The fades wouldnt use their claws so they got mowed down. We ended up winning.

Fades are still powerful however, as I saw they still dominated in other rounds once they saved up enough resources.

Chuckles · January 2003

I just finihsed playing on a 1.04E server as aliens. We had 3 hives for enough time for 1 person to go onos and the marines we all wlking into one hive with HA HMG GL, etc. After we lost the one hive we could not come back. The marines had level3 armour and weapons and we could not kill them while they cut us like butter. 3 hives up and we loose the game. Pretty bad.

RUAewok · January 2003

kinda a dumb idea but why don't they just make these variables. So for clan matches say Fade must cost X, but for pubs the variable would allow the admin to set Fade from between say 40-55 resources or even the max player size of the server would determine the cost of Fades.

1.04e Beta Is Now Playtesting...

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