The big discussion thread on the recent and coming balance changes.



  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    .trixX. wrote: »
    more drifter scouting due to lower cost, as the other remaining function

    This is a pro to you? Ruining the stealth aspect?
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    edited June 2016
    Frozen wrote: »

    This is a pro to you? Ruining the stealth aspect?

    You mean stealth of marines trying to ninja? Yeah, that could be a problem. Get 3 drifters for 9 tres and you can basically check every corner on the map.... Maybe drifter sight could be limited to cysted areas too, for eg standing on the border of infestation would permit seeing everything in it's line of sight, move it over and it's blind. That would also increase consistency of game logic

    OR make scouting an active ability for the drifter without the infestation limitation. It could be an area effect just as enzyme is now and would reveal players and structures for a short time... but that's kind of like scan. Maybe make it free with a long cooldown?

    And then rupture parasite should be taken out too.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    .trixX. wrote: »
    lower skill floor (challenge is a fixation of mine)
    drifters would be reduced to two functions, one is building
    no more early support for aliens, baserush for eg.
    buffed spells (not sure if needed, or only increase effects a tidbit)

    more drifter scouting due to lower cost, as the other remaining function
    cysts are more important
    flamers are more important
    harvester defense, current mist should be taken out though
    better late game ending mechanic for aliens

    As far as I remember, putting those spells as a drifter ability was a conscious decision to emphasize asymmetry of teams, but limiting the abilities to cysted areas still preserves some of that
    I like your list. Those pros sound really really good to me, and outweigh the cons. Sure others might disagree, but then again, this is just an idea I had. It means so little.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I actually like @Frozen 's idea. It's probably going to kill some edge cases where aliens have three hives but the situation is stable, but I guess that can't be helped.
    Shame the game wasn't actually consistently designed around 5TPs, like originally intended - this would have worked really nicely as a 4th Hive upgrade.

    @Nordic 's proposal also sounds nice, mainly because it gives Flamers some use (which would tie neatly into their new, lowered cost) and because it makes drifter abilities more straightforward to use (something I don't like about commanding aliens currently). However, I see two problems with this:
    a) You can't use those abilities offensively anymore, at least not until biomass 7. No more hallucination rushes. And hallucination specifically would be nerfed, since contamination is rather obvious to spot... announcing hallucinations rather openly.
    b) There's not enough space in the UI for all of these. (Remove the "threat" and "expanding" icons?)

    How about instead of on infestation only, these abilities can be used either on infestation OR on any alien? Would that be OP? Maybe make it expensive...
  • MartigenMartigen Australia Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos
    .trixX. wrote: »
    Martigen wrote: »

    We needs it back.


    YES PLEASE. That was the hallmark of NS1.
    And also required careful selection of your nomnom. I remember chasing down the top shooters to put them out of action for a while :D

    Indeed. But for some reason there's always been resistance here, largely I think from the comp players.

    Which is odd. NS2 tried to be an e-sport, and lets look at this -- what would people cheer for the most watching NS2? The timely devour by an onos, the freeing of a marine from an onoses belly! It would be incredible for spectating.

    And it was always fun playing -- fun if you ate someone, fun if you got eaten (if you don't find this fun, lighten up), and awesome if you were freed by your team mates. Devour was what everyone talked about to get people interested in NS1. Devour was integral to its success.

    Whenever NS1 comes up on pubs, time and again I hear people raising that they miss devour (and I was sitting there surprised that they said it before me). I've never heard on the pubs I play someone say they're glad Devour is gone, it's always been a wish to see it again.

    And you know, NS2 is all pubs now.

    So you might as well. Replace Bone Shield with it. With all the other experimental changes recently, why not?

  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
    edited June 2016
    Alternative to that is like a reverse ns1 game end mechanic where after a certain amount of time in biomass 9 the map starts flooding with bacterium and all the marines start slowly dying like aliens did in ns1 when all their hives were destroyed.

    Well, I don't know whether it was possible shut off in ns1, but on all competitive servers was this dying timer shut off - and there were a lot with different settings... sometimes you could even win as aliens, when marines did an early shotgun rush ...

    And yes, devour literally inspired onoshuntingsessions... :D
    There was almost nothing more fullfilling then killing an onos and saving your comrade who can also protect you after you free him and possibly save his Equipment! Especially when you can still talk to him while he is being devoured and can give information about what he is hearing... for instance lifeforms ... or the thrill when you hear lots of bullets... will I get freed? Man.... these were the most awesome moments... for pub and comp :D
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    edited June 2016
    I do miss my "You are here" sprite for being devoured :/
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer
    edited June 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'm glad that devour is gone. It might be fun once or twice to get eaten, but then it's just plain annoying.
    It's basically an instant kill ability - no, even worse than instant kill, since you don't get killed right away, but have to watch that stupid onos texture untill you die.. You're taken out of the game for half a minute, while the onos just had to press LMB. I don't get how anyone would think this is fun.

    It sucked in ns1 and it sucked ns2 combat.
    Well, I think for most people it was fun in ns1.. If it werent for the non-ending-endlessgames we already talked about...but there were quite different circumstances.

    In NS1 the ress requirements for an onos were huge... so it was time for lategame when an onos came up... and there werent as many as today, because if you have to many then you lack in fades which had huge impacts in ns1..
    With Jetpack I could easily outfly and dodge even bunnyhopping Onos since you had much higher maneuverability with the speed you gain due to the halflife engine and bunnyhop - flying... and with HMGs these Onos would die like flies... and engaging Onos had not as much time to do damage

    In NS2 you cant fly as much and the heavy weapons weight slows you down even more - which is currently fine - I think... (on ns_veil I could easily fly with one Jetpack charge right into the cargo Hive if necessary)

    So in retrospect of the differences I must assume implementing devour would create far more problems than it would be fun for the players.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Well, yeah, I guess it true that it was somewhat balanced in ns1, but that still doesn't make it a fun ability imho.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    I'm the exact opposite Bicsum.. I can't imagine why anyone would think Devour is not a fun mechanic...

    It's certainly not an "instant kill" ability since there was a period of time where you could be freed (and I don't know about NS1 but in combat you could try to punch your way out)

    It's actually not even that good because there's such a high risk of dying after devouring the Marine... You would lose something like 1/3 of your health just from having the Marine punching your gut from the inside. Add in one or two of his friends chasing you down and you're basically screwed...

    I had just as much fun trying to punch my way out when devoured (and sometimes succeeding) as I did devouring Marines as Onos... It was just great all around. Literally the only thing I miss from NS2 Combat...
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    You couldnt cut your way out in regular ns. Nevertheleds devour, along with rts+fps was the hallmark of ns.
    Id love to see it in the game in any form
  • Sgt_SassSgt_Sass Join Date: 2016-02-13 Member: 213004Members
    I missed the bus on Combat and NS1, but the idea of Devour sounds awesome. Welding my way out of an onos belly and making tauntaun references ...
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I got a great idea guys: Instead of arbitrary changing existing gameplay elements and balance to make the game worse, why not add really new features / content and try to implement it properly into the game?

    HMG (ok it is not new) and more alien upgrade options are for example a step in the right direction.
Sign In or Register to comment.