MAKE FLAMETHROWER GREAT AGAIN
The_Welsh_Wizard
Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Look what I found on NS2 wiki: http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/images/8/8f/NS2_marine_mockup.jpg
At the moment flamethrower is totally useless but in fact it is a nice support weapon.
Make a flamer attachement buyable for the LMG from the armory for a good amount of res and use with rightclick instead of the rifle bash then.
What is gorge suit or plasteel?
For the devs: Also it would be nice for rookies so they are not getting into the trap to buy a flamerthrower when AA is researched because they think it is good.
At the moment flamethrower is totally useless but in fact it is a nice support weapon.
Make a flamer attachement buyable for the LMG from the armory for a good amount of res and use with rightclick instead of the rifle bash then.
What is gorge suit or plasteel?
For the devs: Also it would be nice for rookies so they are not getting into the trap to buy a flamerthrower when AA is researched because they think it is good.
Comments
Look what I found!
The problem is that it wouldn't make it more useful.
Look at this!
That sure as hell would make the flamethrower more fun tun use.
I'd say either give flamethrowers more range (the idea from @Bicsum might work for that) or we give the FT some extra armor at the same time so he becomes more tanky
I think the base damage should remain low, but the damage over time (burn) should be increased indirectly by allowing it to stack (only on players).
Not sure if it has to shoot projectiles though because the grenade launcher already does that, but I'd like see the unique aspect reworked so that it becomes a more balanced weapon that can kill lifeforms without being its primary function like the GL.
Fix that.
This would shift the flamethrower from a close range support weapon that has to compete with aliens at their best, to a medium to long range support weapon that mostly benefits from engaging at a distance. The ignition delay is to give lower lifeforms the ability counter at a close range before the increased fire damage and energy drain kicks in.
Originally in the early beta there were talks of having flamethrowers clear out vents and play an area denial role, but that was cut presumably for mapping and time saving purposes. The suggested increase to the environmental fire radius and damage is a nod to that original design idea.
The problem is that for you to perform this strong support role effectively, you need to be in a group of 5+ marines. Even then an LMG or shotgun would pretty much do just as well.
2. Another really strong aspect of the flamethrower is that you can damage multiple structures at once. Alien upgrades are often placed right next to each other. With a flamethrower you can kill all 3 really quick.
The problem is that it is really difficult to even reach those situations. Even if you were in that situation a grenade launcher would kill them faster.
3. A flamethrower can be a great support weapon because aliens are so reliant on energy. A fade pretty much can not move fast without energy. Aliens can not attack if they don't have energy.
The problem is that in a real game this really does not do much. I have twice in my 2000+ hours of gameplay caused a fade to die because I drained his energy with a flamethrower. Any moderately skilled marine would be better off with a lmg or a shotgun which is why the flamethrower is pretty much useless.
4. The flamethrower does burn damage over time. This is most obvious when a skulk dies as it runs away with low health, and then dies. What is not obvious at all is that you can set the ground on fire. A skulk will walk will take burn damage over time by walking on those flames. The less obvious aspect of this is you can do a lot extra damage to structures. If you try to kill and harvester with a flamethrower you an do additional burn damage to it by burning the ground. The harvester will both be taking damage from the flamethrower and the flames on the ground. I think it is about 30% more damage, but that is a guess at best.
The problem is that a flamethrower marine can hardly use this to his advantage because even a skulk has a good chance of killing him. Unless that marine has a jetpack he is basically useless.
5. A flamethrower also does flame damage. Flame damage does 400% to flammable structures. There are not many flammable structures. They include cysts, hydras, and clogs. Welders also do flame damage. One of my favorite things to do is to have a jetpack and just just do a half second of flames on a cyst and run. I hit every other cyst. Doing this you can destroy almost the entire alien cyst chain before they can respond.
The problem is that this can only happen late game, and if there is at least one moderately skilled lerk or fade on the alien team you will not get very far.
6. Flamethrowers pop bile bomb. It stops it in mid air. Not only that, it will stop the damage over time that bilebomb does if a structure has already been hit. (Not true anymore). A single flamethower can shutdown a gorge rush entirely. Bilebomb becomes useless because the flamethrowers stops it. The effect is also complemented by the drain on energy making gorges even more useless.
The problem is that this is so situational.
7. Flamethrowers burn away lerk spores. They also burn away a lerks umbra. The alien commanders drifter abilities like enzyme and mucous membrane are also stopped by flamethrowers.
The problem is that you don't see any of those abilities used very often.
Although the flamethrower is a very strong support weapon, it is only strong is specific situations that don't happen often. It addition, it is difficult of a flamethrower to defend itself. Every other primary marine weapon/class can defend itself more easily than a flamethrower.
These are what need fixed.
It would be a start at making it more useful. Do you use hitsounds? Do you use flamethrower? The hit sounds are so slow. Lerks, fades, and sometimes even skulks can run through the flames inbetween the damage ticks. So increasing the firerate would make the flamethrower more responsive and do more damage.
In the past I have wanted a firerate increase, with a small nerf in base damage, resulting in 15% more dps than what we have now. I still like this idea, and it would make flamethrower better, it would not really fix the entire problem. Increasing the range might help more than a 15% dps boost. Still though, the increased fire rate is needed.
+1 for firerate increase, there's also need to fix the *hit-delay-hit-hit-hit* issue.
If you compare GL and FT, the flamethrower range is limited AND the burst non-existent, so unless you're against really bad aliens you can't 1v1 gorges basically.
When you look at the GL it can burst from afar safely, kill higher lifeforms.
Despite all the situational hidden mechanics of the flamer, it just seems not worth the effort.
Imo the flamer needs more BURN, the ability to stack burn dots so that staying in range of a flamer is actually dangerous (unless you have a gorge nearby to put out the flames..
#friedlerk
Home said a good point: When you buy a flamethrower you give up your main weapon slot for a weaker support-weapon. in a 6 vs 6 that can be crucial.
The gl attachment was taken out, because it was effective at everything. RT capping, pve killing and life form killing. It was so strong that it rendered every other tech meaningless.
Of course the flamer is bit different, but you can't really just have it do 2 damge per second and you can't really just nerf the ammo capacity, because then it would lose its pve purpose.
I agree with deathshroud that the problem with the flamer is that it is too easy to use to make it actually strong.
To get around this, making it a secondary weapon would be great. You can buff the heck out of support roles, and make it weak on players.
Still though, the fire rate needs to be at least doubled.
Like some sort of napalm round yes. The flamer does currently set surfaces on fire, but it's effect is negligible. I'd imagine it would require some balancing though.
How about an ALT-FIRE for flamethrower, releases a "firebomb" that "sets an area on fire for X amount of seconds".
That's what I meant.
I vote for an airblast to send skulks flying :]