Update 299 Released! - Natural Selection 2

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Comments

  • HEllrunner2kHEllrunner2k Join Date: 2013-07-05 Member: 185945Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2016
    Infection... make it a comm ability that drifters can apply before combat ^^ .. I'm sure there are all kinds of problems with it tho... just low helath a PG with 3 skulks.. let the lerk spike from behind and go in when you all die to the powersurge. let em run into a gasy death ^^ ... :D man.. that would be a dope scene for a show match, tho ^^

    I like the balance changes so far.. It seems to be all about making all the available strategical options valid. Someone said there is no right and wrong way to do lifeform traits (for instance) anymore. More working strategys = better game

    (still trying to make the Cat Pack - Axe rush work.. there is just not enuf monehh ^^)
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    Tinki wrote: »
    You still drop them on the floor when you die. And if you want to keep them and drop them in an aggresive position it's at you own risk. If a skulk ambushes you outside your main while you have mines he should be rewarded. If you die while spamming them on the floor in an engagement or if you run across the whole map without placing them it's your fault.
    Yes! This is the exact reason mines continue to drop on the ground. They are a defensive tool, and if you run off into dangerous areas and die, you have made a risk/reward decision and it didn't pay off.
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    Played few rounds last night, and i haven't had time or interest to check up on which patch did what. But i noticed a major difference in performance, particularly in combat situations i had zero "fps drops" and it was so much easier to play the game again. I asked my friend and he said the same thing.

    Keep up the good work and continue your changes.
  • SherlockSherlock Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168595Members
    Enjoying this patch so far, the new Hive abilities and the HMG are fun to use.

    So far, there seems to be a lot of hate for the changes, saying Marines are OP. I find if the teams are both strong, then yes Marines will walk a win, but if Aliens can hold their own for long enough, then the end game can be quite exciting. Maybe once the new Hive abilities are explored and people see the benefits and the situations in when to use what, then the game will balance back out. Once people understand the "meta", as it were.

    One thing I do think is important to balance the HMG is to increase the physical size of the clip. Currently, it's far too small for something that holds 100 bullets.

    Maaaaaybe, something like the old Bren LMG from the original Call of Duty games, where it's large size actually obscures some of the screen? That'll help balance it too...

    CoD2MP_bren-lmg.jpg
  • rkfgrkfg Russia Join Date: 2013-09-03 Member: 187744Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sherlock wrote: »
    it's large size actually obscures some of the screen? That'll help balance it too...
    Disagree with that, NS2+ already allows to hide viewmodels and anyway client-side mods that change the HMG look to prevent that "balancing" disadvantage would pop up pretty soon.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    I'd increase the physical size of the magazine for the simple reason that it looks silly right now.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    After playing this patch more I'm starting to fall into the "marines are op now" crowd...

    Every game the aliens managed to win was either a quick base rush, or a painfully long time spent trying to break their turtle...

    On the other hand marine wins came fairly easy it seemed, even when teams were majorly stacked on aliens (almost 1000 higher average hive skill) marines still won...

    Onos are so hilariously weak against hmg that they can't push in as game enders.. A couple arcs and you completely and totally nullify any contamination/echoing to end the game... It's just painful.

    Yeah bone shield is a heal now, but the hilariously long cooldown combined with the fact that you can't use it while moving, and even using 1/10th of it triggers the entire cooldown... Yeah. Onos barely seems worth the res anymore..

    Hopefully there is some more alien love in the next patch because they need it.
  • OscarTheCouchOscarTheCouch Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34647Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Are we putting this game up as Early Access again? I mean since we are still adding features to the game. Maybe that advertising will get more players to join up. More TESTERS the better.
  • Live_FeedLive_Feed Join Date: 2010-07-15 Member: 72419Members

    Wake wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Exactly, git some proper iconic nostalgia in here nubs

    Oooooh Hera ! *Sigh*
    If anyone can set up a NS1 night make sure to announce in order to make a beer'crakers supply check


    Good luck with that. Valve started updating half-life again and pretty much destroyed mod compatibility in regards to ns1. You have to go through a process to downgrade your Half-Life install to get NS running in any sort of proper manner.

    If anyone wants to do it, the good folk at evolve.ns sorted out a handy guide plus the files you need in order to sort things out.

    http://gather.evolvens.com/
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2016
    Live_Feed wrote: »
    Wake wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Exactly, git some proper iconic nostalgia in here nubs

    Oooooh Hera ! *Sigh*
    If anyone can set up a NS1 night make sure to announce in order to make a beer'crakers supply check


    Good luck with that. Valve started updating half-life again and pretty much destroyed mod compatibility in regards to ns1. You have to go through a process to downgrade your Half-Life install to get NS running in any sort of proper manner.

    If anyone wants to do it, the good folk at evolve.ns sorted out a handy guide plus the files you need in order to sort things out.

    http://gather.evolvens.com/

    Weird... I still have NS and other mods running perfectly fine on GoldSrc. Or is this purely related to a fresh install of the mods, and having to run hazard course once for it to stick?


    ] version
    Protocol version 48
    Exe version 1.1.2.2/Stdio (valve)
    Exe build: 13:14:12 Aug 29 2013 (6153)

    Checking those issues, I probably haven't noticed them because... We don't play NS extensively anymore, I merely boot it up once and a while to look at stuff or just record things for nostalgia purposes. I'm just saying, if I remember anything from NS in terms of pure iconic status... It would be the HMG and it's sound/reloadcycle/model and the skulk bitecam
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Yeah bone shield is a heal now, but the hilariously long cooldown combined with the fact that you can't use it while moving, and even using 1/10th of it triggers the entire cooldown... Yeah. Onos barely seems worth the res anymore..
    I am planning on looking into the "using 1/10th of it" usability issue. There have been a lot of times where I am clicking in a panic trying to trigger the ability and end up wasting the heal and putting it back on cooldown. It definitely needs some more feedback and a usability tweak.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    remi wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Yeah bone shield is a heal now, but the hilariously long cooldown combined with the fact that you can't use it while moving, and even using 1/10th of it triggers the entire cooldown... Yeah. Onos barely seems worth the res anymore..
    I am planning on looking into the "using 1/10th of it" usability issue. There have been a lot of times where I am clicking in a panic trying to trigger the ability and end up wasting the heal and putting it back on cooldown. It definitely needs some more feedback and a usability tweak.

    Why not just tie it back to energy like it was before? You'd basically be trading energy for health at that point, and lack of energy would act as a cooldown for the skill...
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
    I actually think onos need to adapt that ther is a HMG and play accordingly. In competitive scene people needed a couple of weeks o figure out how to deal with HMGs and right now in pubs I don't feel like my lifeforms suffer under HMGs.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited May 2016
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I actually think onos need to adapt that ther is a HMG and play accordingly. In competitive scene people needed a couple of weeks o figure out how to deal with HMGs and right now in pubs I don't feel like my lifeforms suffer under HMGs.

    I don't think it's a matter of adapting... You run into a single HMG user and they can melt like 80% of your health in the blink of an eye.

    One game I played last night had Marines turtling for almost an hour because Aliens couldn't end it. Every time we did a coordinated rush all of our Onos died in like 1/2 a second and we wiped... Without the ability to contaminate there's nothing Aliens can do... Not even Xenocide was doing anything (and actually a lot of people in that game were complaining about Xeno being nerfed into uselessness now... I didn't notice any Xeno nerf though)

    Oh and speaking of contaminate... it is pretty stupid to give Aliens a game ending ability, then have it completely and totally rendered 100% useless by 1-2 arcs in the Marine base... If Aliens can get 3 hives and hold them long enough to get 9 biomass (and the res needed for contaiminate) they deserve to win...

    If the bile from contaminate was seen as too OP (I don't see how) then we need something else to end games.. Like Onocide from the LuckyFkers enforced mod.
  • _mod_mod New Zealand Join Date: 2013-11-01 Member: 188922Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    One thing that certainly separates the comp hmg from the pub hmg is the 5 second reload time. I don't know if the comp hmg's half damage to buildings made it to pub either.
    But the reload times for certain was a way to deal with marines. It meant that rines had to co-ordinate their reload with someone else around to defend them; meanwhile the building damage nerf ensured that there had to be other guns on the field.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    _mod wrote: »
    I don't know if the comp hmg's half damage to buildings made it to pub either.

    It died. Was a nasty suprise when I tried to kill an RT.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    After playing some matches in both pub and semi competitive (taw vs taw organised play), ive got stuff to say.
    Sadly, at the moment balance seems far off.. very much in favor of aliens.. here is why.

    To start I shall point out some small changes. Note that the earlier patches healthbar works both ways (alien and marine), and isnt a real problem with the recent changes. (Or rather, recent is much worse)

    Lets start simple with the onos.
    Boneshield now heals back up armour at a astonishing rate. A marine with lvl2 weapons will not really do that much damage in terms of outdamaging the new onos selfheal.
    In short, trapping just got void. Forget about communicating onos positions, low onos health and positioning for trap. If it throws up a boneshield, its solid vs any solo trapping marine.
    Personally, I find this a change for the worst.. but granted thats my opinion.


    Now lets roll more into fact with the recent alien commander changes.. oh boy.
    On the surface it looks like some general Quality Of Life improvements and fun. No more endless raging at the team for never holding any expension cysting. No decysting your harvesters by a lone marine. Easier planning of myst.
    And lets not forget, who needs scouts with the new improved Rupture v3.

    Sadly all the changes combined prove a quite powerful and overwhelming tool in the hands of a experienced commander. Lets work the HowTo down.
    • Start by mysting the area you want. If marines notice is irrelevant. It may even be beneficial. Remember you sort of need a active cyst chain close by for maximum efficience.
    • Start spamming cysts, not in a chain, but more in a semi random patern. The goal is to put more cysts down then 1 to 2 marines can reasonably decyst. No worries, this takes less then you imagine.
    • Replace any cysts which are killed of. Remember you need enough cysts to always be able to replace them while at least one is still maturing. Note this is also a indicator of how many marines are there. 2 can barely keep up, if you cant keep going its 3+ marines. Gratz, you occupied half their team already. By your self.
    • Keep myst up, no worries.. it wont take long anymore. Myst adds maturity, and cysts dont die anymore if the chain is broken.. They just lose maturity. (See where this is going?)
    • A small patch of infestation made it, now its time to make this snowball. Make sure you dont lose your minimum amount of cysts and start spamming rupture. Not only will you now have parasited all close by, it semi blinds them... and the most important part.. Many MANY players find mechanics like rupture DEEPLY annoying. This frustration will build up the more often they get a rupture to the face.
    • You DID park that drifter close to your echo shift in hive right? No worries, you wont need drifter abilities anymore. Shove that res in this.
    • Keep rupture up. Combine with alien team if possible.
    • PG? you have infestation.. bonewall it. It slows marines down while phasing in and is equally annoying.
    • Keep rupture to the face up. Trap marines with bonewall, rupture them again. Frustrated marines make mistakes, and perhaps better.. may willingly leave the area to go do something more fun.
    • Your team IS crushing either this point or something else on the map right?
    • Repeat as often as possible.

    Combine this with your new ability to keep alive what you got and you will have enough resflow to seriously demotivate your opponent, while slowing them down tremendously on their forward PG.
    GG incoming.
  • FarewelltoarmsFarewelltoarms gainesville fl Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183603Members
    It's impossible to balance aliens and marines at all skill levels.

    Imagine if both marines and aliens had perfect 100% accuracy. Marines would win every round.

    This game is balanced around average players. The only way to balance for higher skill levels would be to add a handicap to the high skilled players.

    Feel free to leave some disagrees, ty.

  • AdambeanAdambean Cardiff, South Wales Join Date: 2005-06-03 Member: 53038Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Definitely swayed too far Alien side. Also not sure why HMG was added when UWE were adamant it never would be. Not a great update this one.
  • KittyAttackKittyAttack California Join Date: 2013-11-29 Member: 189622Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I actually think onos need to adapt that ther is a HMG and play accordingly. In competitive scene people needed a couple of weeks o figure out how to deal with HMGs and right now in pubs I don't feel like my lifeforms suffer under HMGs.

    I don't think it's a matter of adapting... You run into a single HMG user and they can melt like 80% of your health in the blink of an eye.

    One game I played last night had Marines turtling for almost an hour because Aliens couldn't end it. Every time we did a coordinated rush all of our Onos died in like 1/2 a second and we wiped... Without the ability to contaminate there's nothing Aliens can do... Not even Xenocide was doing anything (and actually a lot of people in that game were complaining about Xeno being nerfed into uselessness now... I didn't notice any Xeno nerf though)

    Oh and speaking of contaminate... it is pretty stupid to give Aliens a game ending ability, then have it completely and totally rendered 100% useless by 1-2 arcs in the Marine base... If Aliens can get 3 hives and hold them long enough to get 9 biomass (and the res needed for contaiminate) they deserve to win...

    If the bile from contaminate was seen as too OP (I don't see how) then we need something else to end games.. Like Onocide from the LuckyFkers enforced mod.

    I too would love onoscide being default for turtle breakers but the Devs have already claimed that was game breaking despite people playing there for years happily and evenly...... We are just finishing up the total reversion to the 2.94 version Enforced mod which focuses on balancing the game again and simplifying it for rookies without unbalanced exploits like HP bars and the ability to contaminate bile and destroy an entire team and force them back in base the moment they get exos...Contaminate was abused and it is highly effective against 5 arcs....Each contamination manages at least 1 bile bomb of damage each time before arcs can kill them which slowly destroys everything and there is no coming back from it...No back and forth struggle.No chance at redemption based on skill..... Just a shotty substitute to playing with coordination.

    Turtle breakers are my specialty as an alien com... I once echoed 25 Gorge eggs to Topographical on Veil. I had my team spawn there as gorges when they died. We had only two lerks using umbra and 4 onos stomping and bone shielding for the gorges. Then I had my team spam bile at marines with onos helping bone shield each time while I echoed in a "craig and shift conga line" to keep the onos and gorges alive longer which took real strategy and team work because of how fast the arcs killed them and not an over powered abusive alien contaminate ability..........

    This game is all about strategy and skill.....Most Coms seem to forget the strategy part late game when it comes to breaking turtles or coming back from them..... It is strategy based... The most common problem with Marines is that they grow impatient and loose their third tech point rather than waiting for the resources to accumulate long enough for arcs to do the heavy lifting for them and easily win.. Aliens were always stronger late game so marines have to be smarter late game.

    That contamination was bad once it was exploited... Could have easily won if not for that which was sad.... Very game breaking still Mofo. Either way, I wont play the new unbalance version. I will only play LF Enforced 2.94....We have it nearly 100% fixed since the recent updates.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    KittyAttack, I thought you stopped playing in B279 when you said that was gamebreaking?
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    edited May 2016
    I would like to say that the recent activity of the Dev team begs the question, why? ....... Just why? ............ We had balance and players and you traded in 300 vets that seeded the game for newcomers for 12 rookies and 80 or so people that said they like the changes but never play the game or just talk about picking it back up but never do......

    The game balance is broken beyond belief. Marines are over powered early game and late game aliens are too over powered........ Why ? Just Why? You had a solid game that had some engine problems and you focus on returning the game play to an alpha build state.........

    Why, because it will allow us to hit build 300 next week!

    It's such a pretty number isn't it
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Wait so Heath bars AND a weight system was added? RIP jetpackers
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    The weight system has been in since forever. I remember when pistols had weight, and people would drop their pistols so that they could run faster. Why do you think the flamethrower has always moved so slow? Weight. The effects have just been increased.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Nordic wrote: »
    The weight system has been in since forever. I remember when pistols had weight, and people would drop their pistols so that they could run faster. Why do you think the flamethrower has always moved so slow? Weight. The effects have just been increased.

    Thats besides the point, they are now more noticeable and punishing as ever.
  • navazkanavazka Join Date: 2015-12-08 Member: 209825Members
    After the update, I have to say I dislike alien vision, because I don't see a damn thing in dark. It's pitch black with an occasional thin white line. It does not help me to navigate in the room. I'm basically as blind as marine are, only they have a flash light and I don't. Please make sure aliens see reasonably well even in completely dark areas, or when the power node is torn down. The current vision is ... very poor.
  • HEllrunner2kHEllrunner2k Join Date: 2013-07-05 Member: 185945Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2016
    is he actually talking about Huze's Minimal? cuz I'd STRONGLY disagree and say it's a HUGE advantage to see the dark areas without the downside of beeing completley blind... Huze's is the best there is, imo... It's also a NS2+ standart... If it's not Huze's you're talking about check it, man... Huze's minimal AV
  • navazkanavazka Join Date: 2015-12-08 Member: 209825Members
    is he actually talking about Huze's Minimal? cuz I'd STRONGLY disagree and say it's a HUGE advantage to see the dark areas without the downside of beeing completley blind... Huze's is the best there is, imo... It's also a NS2+ standart... If it's not Huze's you're talking about check it, man... Huze's minimal AV

    Yes, I guess I am. It's the default mode now, and if I switch to Huze's Minimal, it looks the same. It might be good for pro-players who know the rooms by heart. And I'm not saying players should not have an option to select it. But for noobs like me, I'd appreciate something in which I can see dark rooms more clearly, by default.

    Also, can I somehow switch to the old vision mode? I can't seem to find it in NS2+ options.
  • HEllrunner2kHEllrunner2k Join Date: 2013-07-05 Member: 185945Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2016
    It's under AV... UI roll out at the bottom... there should be a variety.. including classic that paints everythin nightvision green
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