Tech should not be found on seafloor

OsydiusOsydius France Join Date: 2015-09-19 Member: 208031Members Posts: 56 Fully active user
I feel that our tech should not be found randomly on the seafloor. Just like the floodlights, we should find it (i) in wreck, (ii) in the Aurora and/or (iii) in old abandonned bases.

It's just more logical that way and would also better drive the player's progression ingame.

Also, I feel it would be better if, at the start of the game, you find a service scanner in the escape pod, next to the fire extinguisher (so you don't have to build it), and have an empty fabricator (i.e. it should not have a single blueprint loaded in, not one). Then, you should start scanning everything around you, go back to the fabricator and, upon loading the scanner's info into the fabricator, it would reveal which items can be build based on the properties of the stuff you have scanned.

Indeed, it's not normal that, while landing on an alien planet, your fabricator already knows that 2 of those pinkish little mushrooms will be perfect to create a battery... How does it know of their acid content or how much of said acid can be collected per mushroom, thus justifying bringing 2 mushroom for a battery? That's not logical. I mean the way it is now, if you truly want to get out of the planet, don't bother searching for clues, just ask the fabricator because it seems it already knows the planet inside out.
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Comments

  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    They have long planned for this to be the case. Give it time, and tech will be only in wrecks.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
  • StilettoStiletto Join Date: 2016-05-12 Member: 216671Members Posts: 5 Fully active user
    edited May 2016
    I do agree with you on finding tech inside wrecks or scattered around where said wreck lays upon the ocean's floor, Near the Aurora and inside abandoned bases.

    Also, it kinda is silly that the fabricator already knows recipies that use alien flora to create basic things such as batteries. However, since it's still in development, everything is likely to change in a way that would make it more immersive and logical?

    Probably easier for stuff to be as it is right now, for testing purposes, given that there's still plenty of time to change things until version 1.0 is released.

    But that's my opinion. :)

    Edit: Or what Sidchicken said. He was quicker than I was posting. :p
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    I think there's already a plan to move all tech to wrecks, abondoned bases, etc. and it's mostly finished, with still needing better inside wreck placement. There's also a plan to turn more items into ones that need recipes, like the battery.

    But the thing is, that some smaller wreck parts can be found lying around and include tech parts too. Although I tend to think that higher tech should be found either at difficult locked wreck places and the Aurora or be of the abondoned crew tech and be found lost at secret places tracable through old PDA logs. Best tech should be found at precursor bases or alien relict locations.

    Your scanner idea is good. The scanner should be one of the first items to be found or built.

    The rest: It's just a game. Why can we cook unknown alien fish to eat them, but not simply cook water to drink it? Why do my lungs have more air capacity than O2 tanks? Why has my Seamoth good sight and a sonar and the Cyclops is blind and deaf? ... Don't ask too much.
  • OsydiusOsydius France Join Date: 2015-09-19 Member: 208031Members Posts: 56 Fully active user
    edited May 2016
    Stiletto wrote: »
    Probably easier for stuff to be as it is right now, for testing purposes, given that there's still plenty of time to change things until version 1.0 is released.

    Well, considering the release of v1.0 is planned for August, I would not go as far as to say they have plenty of time ahead :)

    Of course, as with everything, release date is subject to change, but if you look at the speed at which changes have been made to the game over the past year and what remains to be done based on the trello roadmap (which does not include what I have posted here), and take into account the fact that they will take holydays in June, then I would say that, on the contrary, they are running out of time. In fact, from my point of view, an August release is already impossible, unless they cut lots of things from the planning (like the transfuser).

    And I am generally of the opinion that it's better to perfect what's already done, rather than add something new but imperfect. What needs to be ingame for the release is Exosuit, the last remaining zones, the story and cleaning up all that needs to be cleaned up, such as the fact that not every creature is scannable, or as in my OP, the tech progression curve (by that I mean that IMO, the game simply cannot be release if that's not finished, whereas the rest, such as creatures attacking base or rechargeable batteries, can wait v1.1).

    As far as I am concerned, if they end up short on time, I would rather see this tech change implemented over, for instance, the transfuser (but that's only me).
  • OsydiusOsydius France Join Date: 2015-09-19 Member: 208031Members Posts: 56 Fully active user
    zetachron wrote: »
    The rest: It's just a game. Why can we cook unknown alien fish to eat them, but not simply cook water to drink it? Why do my lungs have more air capacity than O2 tanks? Why has my Seamoth good sight and a sonar and the Cyclops is blind and deaf? ... Don't ask too much.

    You know I was wondering about the Cyclops thing too. I was wondering if it was just me or if we all had a hard time seeing through the front window. I guess I now have the answer :)
  • BobRossTheBossBobRossTheBoss Join Date: 2012-12-31 Member: 176824Members Posts: 172 Fully active user
    I think tech, at least important tech like parts for both subs, moonpool, mod station, etc. should always be at the end of a "dungeon" i.e. a cave, wreck, or base. Even if they need to be scripted or load a new map, I don't mind.

    Anything is better than just swimming along the border of 2 biomes and collecting every module you need.
  • KlinnKlinn Lost in a cave Join Date: 2016-03-09 Member: 214022Members Posts: 231 Advanced user
    The other side of putting all fragments in wrecks is that they are then in fixed, known locations. When the game is released it won't be long before somebody creates a list like the ones I've done previously that specify exactly where to go to find things. That takes away from the exploration fun of the game.

    I always hope that players will use those guides as a last resort, when they feel they've looked everywhere but still can't find the blasted Moonpool, but you know that some people will just take the short cut.

    Osydius wrote: »
    You know I was wondering about the Cyclops thing too. I was wondering if it was just me or if we all had a hard time seeing through the front window. I guess I now have the answer :)

    Some players prefer to navigate while using one of the Cyclops' camera views, rather than peering through the murky windshield. Or is that watershield? :)
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    Klinn wrote: »
    Some players prefer to navigate while using one of the Cyclops' camera views, rather than peering through the murky windshield. Or is that watershield? :)

    LOL, tell me what you saw with the cams when you were down at the pitch black ILZ to the Lava Castle. I didn't see a thing (inside the cyclops) and memorized the whole path to navigate down there blindly. Or did they change the lightmaps again? Nevertheless I think even with interior lights turned out (only some inner window reflection) and exterior lights out (not getting blinded by reflection of the own searchlights), your sight is still worse than the Seamoth sight without lights.

    Of course cam navigation is perfect to go down the deep reef. But as you can't do the Seamoth navigation of tilting and rolling around obstacles you have to play submarine tetris with the Cyclops.
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    I like having the cameras because you can go to "periscope depth" (about 6m) and navigate toward surface features (aurora, islands) more easily, while your cockpit is still underwater, where you can see hazards more easily.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
  • NamelessChaosNamelessChaos Germany Join Date: 2016-02-17 Member: 213158Members Posts: 259 Fully active user
    edited May 2016
    Since the steering blocks sight to the ground, I can totally understand the ones using the camera for it... . Steering Columns are so oldschool... .
    Post edited by NamelessChaos on
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer Posts: 2,816 admin
    The original plan was to move all the tech fragments inside wrecks. We actually did that, but then received a bunch of feedback that we'd removed a lot of the fun of the old system, when fragments were just scattered randomly on the ground, which really got players out exploring every nook and cranny of the world to find the tech. So, what we decided was to try a hybrid approach -- keeping the majority of fragments inside the large wrecks, but still scatter some around on the ground, as well.

    Thematically it still works, because we have themed these areas that contain fragments as small wreckage sites, with other debris from the ship scattered around.
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  • OsydiusOsydius France Join Date: 2015-09-19 Member: 208031Members Posts: 56 Fully active user
    The original plan was to move all the tech fragments inside wrecks. We actually did that, but then received a bunch of feedback that we'd removed a lot of the fun of the old system, when fragments were just scattered randomly on the ground, which really got players out exploring every nook and cranny of the world to find the tech. So, what we decided was to try a hybrid approach -- keeping the majority of fragments inside the large wrecks, but still scatter some around on the ground, as well.

    Thematically it still works, because we have themed these areas that contain fragments as small wreckage sites, with other debris from the ship scattered around.

    Cool, that's good news. I was expecting the Seamoth and Cyclops fragments to stay on the seafloor anyway but as long as most of the fragments are inside wrecks, that's great (especially if you indeed theme said areas)! It will add a lot to the gameplay and atmosphere in my view.

    Now if I can push my luck trying to get another answer from you... how about the fabricator? :) Will it already contain all blueprints right at the start or will it be empty and progressively fill up as you scan stuff?
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer Posts: 2,816 admin
    Osydius wrote: »
    Now if I can push my luck trying to get another answer from you... how about the fabricator? :) Will it already contain all blueprints right at the start or will it be empty and progressively fill up as you scan stuff?
    We do still intend to strip out more of the starting stuff from the fabricator, I believe. But it's a tough balance to hit, because if it is totally empty, players don't really understand what is going on or think there is nothing they can craft. And too full makes it cluttered and easy to miss important things, like the 02 tank. So we'd like to still keep a few of the essential starting items visible in the fabricator right from the beginning.
  • papragupapragu Home Join Date: 2015-03-23 Member: 202455Members Posts: 25 Fully active user
    Osydius wrote: »

    Indeed, it's not normal that, while landing on an alien planet, your fabricator already knows that 2 of those pinkish little mushrooms will be perfect to create a battery... How does it know of their acid content or how much of said acid can be collected per mushroom, thus justifying bringing 2 mushroom for a battery? That's not logical. I mean the way it is now, if you truly want to get out of the planet, don't bother searching for clues, just ask the fabricator because it seems it already knows the planet inside out.

    Well it is not the first expedition to the planet. There were already some other expeditions, hence the abandoned bases. So they transmittted their findings and research results, based on that the fabricators were already set up with all the blueprints needed for basic survival.
  • CoranthCoranth Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Members Posts: 719 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    The way you 'update' the Fabricator should be through the Scanner--all minerals and resources should be scanable (i.e. scan metal salvage = titanium. Scan quartz = glass; and so on, with things being unlocked as you scan more resources and tech fragments.

    The Fabricator should come 'pre-loaded' with basic survival items - knife, tank, fins, builder, medkit - it's a survival fabricator after all, but those blueprints - though 'there' and able to be used, will be 'locked' until you use the scanner to start scanning resources which you then collect. Everything else for the Fabricator needs an "update" via scanning with the hand-scanner, which you get at the start as it's included with the 'basics' in the lifepod.

    Standard Provisions (From the Wiki):
    2x All-Environment Protection Suit (well, only one now because you've got one on)
    1x Handheld spectroscope scanner
    3x Ready-to-eat rations (the Nutrient Blocks)
    3x 1L drinking water provision (Filtered or Disinfected Water)
    1x Emergency medkit
    1x Flashlight
    1x Emergency flare
    1x Assorted replacement parts (this could be a 'kit' which you 'use' on the Panel and Comm. Relay to get them working so no need for the Welder until the Aurora blows)

    The Builder should come with only the basic base module blueprints installed - metal foundation, room, large aquarium so you can do a basic farm and 'get set up'; but nothing else until you get your butt out of your basic hut and go explore, which is the whole point of it all!

    The "Blueprints" Tab of the PDA feels very cluttered at the moment; I think it should be cleaned up a bit and another tab should be for "Resources" that you find--that or it should be turned into a Resources Tab and the Blueprints stay on the Builder's Construction Menu only.

    TL;DR:

    1. Fabricator 'resources' section is empty until you go out and start scanning elements such as quartz, titanium, copper, the stone formations, etc.
    2. As you scan, the 'resources' becomes populated; then the basics (tank, fins, knife, builder) open up.
    3. The 'builder' blueprints contain the barebones at first: foundation, corridors, multi-purpose room ONLY until you find and scan damaged things.

    (Edited for clarity)
    Post edited by Coranth on
    zetachronSidchicken
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    Coranth wrote: »
    The Fabricator should come 'pre-loaded' with basic survival items - knife, tank, fins, builder, medkit - it's a survival fabricator after all, but those blueprints - though 'there' and able to be used, will be 'locked' until you use the scanner to start scanning resources which you then collect. Everything else for the Fabricator needs an "update" via scanning with the hand-scanner, which you get at the start as it's included with the 'basics' in the lifepod.

    I agree - it would make the most sense if you can see the blueprint for, let's say, fins... but not how to make rubber. Then once you harvest some seeds and bring them back with you, the recipe for rubber would unlock.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
  • OsydiusOsydius France Join Date: 2015-09-19 Member: 208031Members Posts: 56 Fully active user
    Osydius wrote: »
    Now if I can push my luck trying to get another answer from you... how about the fabricator? :) Will it already contain all blueprints right at the start or will it be empty and progressively fill up as you scan stuff?
    We do still intend to strip out more of the starting stuff from the fabricator, I believe. But it's a tough balance to hit, because if it is totally empty, players don't really understand what is going on or think there is nothing they can craft. And too full makes it cluttered and easy to miss important things, like the 02 tank. So we'd like to still keep a few of the essential starting items visible in the fabricator right from the beginning.

    Cool, thanks for the answer :) If the issue is making clear to the players what they have to do to fill up the fabricator, you can always have the craftable tools / elements appear but then, have a question mark for their components and next to that, have a big pop-up message saying "Please scan your environement to find suitable components for that objects".

    That way players (i) know what they can craft, and (ii) know that they need to scan the environment to fill the Fabricator with the relevant components for each craftable element.

    Of course, not all craftables should be there at the start. For instance, enameled glass can wait until you have scanned a tooth before it appears in the Fabricator.

    Oh well, knowing you're thinking about it is enough for me :) I trust you'll find the best solution.
  • AncoliusAncolius Nederland Join Date: 2015-02-01 Member: 201148Members Posts: 23 Fully active user
    You could make it mini quests through the PDA,
    For example,

    Starting survival protocol
    The basic of survival is to have sustainable nurishment for the body and mind get accustomed to your new surroundings and locate means of hydration and source of protien.
    Every live-raft is equipped with a handheld scanner and a fabricator to make best of every foreign environment resources.

    Water, needs to be cleared of contamination this can be done by either filtering it through a membrane or through disinfection.
    Food, can be anything containing enough proteïne and calories found in most vegetation and wild live.

    Alterra's fabricators can filter most contaminations found in water or edible biomasses.
    Longterm exposure to the elements.

    Resources are key to survival when rescue can take a while even in the most hostile environments and alien worlds elements don't change.
    Most tools require power to function and while battery''s can be hard to come by an electric current can be started by oxidising metals like copper in acidic fluids.


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