The main thing that prevents marine comebacks now is how laborious and slow it is to rebuild broken power nodes. The alien team can cross the whole map in the time it takes to rebuild one power node.
Taking territory at the beginning of the game is exciting. For Marines, retaking territory later in the game is a tedious slog and so slow that it is rarely successful because of the slow power nodes.
If you want to help marine comebacks, make the time to rebuild a power node a function of the number of built structures attached. This would let you keep the mechanic of rushing the power in base unchanged, but would let Marines retake territory at a reasonable rate
Adding another res mechanic just muddies the game. I really don't like it
I like this idea, if the res changes do turn out to feel too "muddy" I think this could be something to look at. It was not specifically aimed at marine comebacks but alien as well- I do think it has virtues worth exploring (It also theoretically helps balance out the p-res rate increase which will benefit aliens more than marines).
The main thing that prevents marine comebacks now is how laborious and slow it is to rebuild broken power nodes. The alien team can cross the whole map in the time it takes to rebuild one power node.
Taking territory at the beginning of the game is exciting. For Marines, retaking territory later in the game is a tedious slog and so slow that it is rarely successful because of the slow power nodes.
If you want to help marine comebacks, make the time to rebuild a power node a function of the number of built structures attached. This would let you keep the mechanic of rushing the power in base unchanged, but would let Marines retake territory at a reasonable rate
Adding another res mechanic just muddies the game. I really don't like it
I like this idea, if the res changes do turn out to feel too "muddy" I think this could be something to look at. It was not specifically aimed at marine comebacks but alien as well- I do think it has virtues worth exploring (It also theoretically helps balance out the p-res rate increase which will benefit aliens more than marines).
I don't know what servers you guys play on, but rebuilding power nodes has never been an issue outside of base, other than being an extra structure further from the phase gate that you possibly have to build. Especially since you usually rush there with more or less your entire team to establish the gate.
The main thing that prevents marine comebacks now is how laborious and slow it is to rebuild broken power nodes. The alien team can cross the whole map in the time it takes to rebuild one power node.
Taking territory at the beginning of the game is exciting. For Marines, retaking territory later in the game is a tedious slog and so slow that it is rarely successful because of the slow power nodes.
If you want to help marine comebacks, make the time to rebuild a power node a function of the number of built structures attached. This would let you keep the mechanic of rushing the power in base unchanged, but would let Marines retake territory at a reasonable rate
Adding another res mechanic just muddies the game. I really don't like it
I like this idea, if the res changes do turn out to feel too "muddy" I think this could be something to look at. It was not specifically aimed at marine comebacks but alien as well- I do think it has virtues worth exploring (It also theoretically helps balance out the p-res rate increase which will benefit aliens more than marines).
Frankly, I don't think aliens need much help for comebacks - I see alien comebacks semi regularly. It's marine comebacks that are rare. This is due to The Power Of Alien PRES (TM).
Great to see some major shakeups of the gameplay. Long overdue. Marine gameplay should be fleshed out too.
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
Great to see some major shakeups of the gameplay. Long overdue. Marine gameplay should be fleshed out too.
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
Or how about this completely new, radical idea: Make it so exos, or maybe even JPs, require a second CC?
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
About the powersurge:
I like the idea Wob mentioned in another thread.
If the com fires up the overpower on an rt to protect this rt stays inactive till one marine goes there and touch it.
With this you would still have the "pulling marines away" mechanc in the game.
I killed multiple chipped skulks in one round with powersurge, and from a skulk view its very frustrating to die that way.
But with the mechanic wob mentioned, my skulk death would not be totally pointless.
I like the powernode idea from moultano also.
You could speed up the building process if you use a welder.
Maybe then more players would buy welders.
To be honest, if the aliens have 9 biomass, the marines shouldn't have any chance of winning outside of pure marine skill overpowering the aliens. And this should only happen with a late joiner.
Hive 3 abilities should give aliens game-ending tools. Contaminate helps this, and now it helps even more. I pray for the day projectile spores at bio-7 from comp mod comes to pubs.
So then just end the game when aliens research their 9th biomass then. No need to actually play it out if winning is "just a formality".
And on that note marines should get a Nuke to auto win if they control enough CCs and do the research. It's only fair really aliens were never going to come back anyway.
If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. The game is meant to be played out even to the end. Neither com should have a big F*CK YOU button to wreak havoc or win without the support of his team. Contaminate was originally NERFED for this reason, because contaminate/whip rushes were effective at doing just that. I'll be honest, I haven't seen what the new contaminate can actually do, but just randomly throwing damage around without any input from the team seems like a very bad design idea.
Suggestions:
1) remove powersurge research
2) unlock with (working) obervatory
3) usage costs 5 tres; 20 seconds cooldown
4) pulses 5 times every 1.5 - 2 seconds
5) deals 50 light damage per pulse (light damage being 4 damage absorbed for 1 point armor)
6) damage is shared across nearby aliens
7) structure does not function while overcharge is active (as if the power is out)
1) If its a research then you don't have it, when you need it, and when you have it when you don't need it.
Make it free, so you have it when you need it.
2) In order to not make it appear right away - which would be bad, because the marines would worry less about getting base rushed, and hence push much harder - it could be tied to the observatory, which would enable you to beacon anyway.
3) potentially increase both values
4) damage may be mitgated with proper timing (as skulk)
5+6)
One (no carapace) skulk survives 2 hits when full
Two (no carapace) skulks survive 4 hits when full
One (carapace) skulk survives 3 hit when full
Two (carapace) skulks survives 6 hits when full
life forms who help biting may soak damage.
7) Trade off that applies to every building, so that you really want to think about using it on a phase gate, arms lab or observatory (increases Tres cost on RTs by 1 - 1.5 Tres.)
I like that aliens have a turtle buster that ends games. I like that contaminate is strong. I do not like that it has no counter what so ever. I would like to see contaminate have a soft counter. I would delay the bile bomb damage by 1.5 seconds from when the mushroom is placed, and if they mushroom is on fire or killed in that 1.5 seconds it does not do bile bomb damage. This would make contaminate a huge problem for marines, but it would still have a soft counter. Contaminate would still be strong enough to end games on its own, it just might take a little longer while marines play wack a mushroom.
To be honest, if the aliens have 9 biomass, the marines shouldn't have any chance of winning outside of pure marine skill overpowering the aliens. And this should only happen with a late joiner.
Hive 3 abilities should give aliens game-ending tools. Contaminate helps this, and now it helps even more. I pray for the day projectile spores at bio-7 from comp mod comes to pubs.
So then just end the game when aliens research their 9th biomass then. No need to actually play it out if winning is "just a formality".
And on that note marines should get a Nuke to auto win if they control enough CCs and do the research. It's only fair really aliens were never going to come back anyway.
If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. The game is meant to be played out even to the end. Neither com should have a big F*CK YOU button to wreak havoc or win without the support of his team. Contaminate was originally NERFED for this reason, because contaminate/whip rushes were effective at doing just that. I'll be honest, I haven't seen what the new contaminate can actually do, but just randomly throwing damage around without any input from the team seems like a very bad design idea.
Yeah, but when was the last time you saw a game where marines controlled 4 CCs, aliens had one hive and marines couldnt end it?
I like that aliens have a turtle buster that ends games. I like that contaminate is strong. I do not like that it has no counter what so ever. I would like to see contaminate have a soft counter. I would delay the bile bomb damage by 1.5 seconds from when the mushroom is placed, and if they mushroom is on fire or killed in that 1.5 seconds it does not do bile bomb damage. This would make contaminate a huge problem for marines, but it would still have a soft counter. Contaminate would still be strong enough to end games on its own, it just might take a little longer while marines play wack a mushroom.
Don't forget that arcs already nuke contaminate. Maybe it could be done so that 2 arcs can kill contaminate fast enough for the bile not to trigger.
Don't forget that arcs already nuke contaminate. Maybe it could be done so that 2 arcs can kill contaminate fast enough for the bile not to trigger.
Right now, arcs can not stop the bilebomb damage. Contaminate is unstoppable with no counter whatsoever.
You do bring up a point worth discussing though. If a soft counter is introduced to contaminate, what should it be? I suggested a flamethrower. I like this because it requires a players attention. Given my suggestion I am not sure arcs would work because the timer is too short. I think I prefer that it requires a players attention. But still though, there are good questions to be answered.
Assuming a soft counter is introduced similar to how I describe, how long should the delay on bilebomb damage be? Should it be just long enough enough to allow an arc to hit it? Should a single arc be able to kill a contaminate mushroom? Should it require two arcs to kill one comtaminate mushroom?
Don't forget that arcs already nuke contaminate. Maybe it could be done so that 2 arcs can kill contaminate fast enough for the bile not to trigger.
Right now, arcs can not stop the bilebomb damage. Contaminate is unstoppable with no counter whatsoever.
You do bring up a point worth discussing though. If a soft counter is introduced to contaminate, what should it be? I suggested a flamethrower. I like this because it requires a players attention. Given my suggestion I am not sure arcs would work because the timer is too short. I think I prefer that it requires a players attention. But still though, there are good questions to be answered.
Assuming a soft counter is introduced similar to how I describe, how long should the delay on bilebomb damage be? Should it be just long enough enough to allow an arc to hit it? Should a single arc be able to kill a contaminate mushroom? Should it require two arcs to kill one comtaminate mushroom?
Flamethrower sounds good.
As for the timing: It could be so that the bilebomb is triggered at the _end_ of the contamination life cycle. This would marines to react and they would be punished for not doing so.
I want contaminate to be strong. I would be worried that putting it at the end of the lifecycle that it would be too easily prevented. There is a fine line that would need to be tuned. Right now it is unstoppable, but we don't want it easily prevented either. Contaminate should be a strong game ender, but not a guaranteed death sentence.
Great to see some major shakeups of the gameplay. Long overdue. Marine gameplay should be fleshed out too.
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
What in the world makes you want to remove asymmetry more than it already is. This I cannot understand.
To be honest, if the aliens have 9 biomass, the marines shouldn't have any chance of winning outside of pure marine skill overpowering the aliens. And this should only happen with a late joiner.
Hive 3 abilities should give aliens game-ending tools. Contaminate helps this, and now it helps even more. I pray for the day projectile spores at bio-7 from comp mod comes to pubs.
So then just end the game when aliens research their 9th biomass then. No need to actually play it out if winning is "just a formality".
And on that note marines should get a Nuke to auto win if they control enough CCs and do the research. It's only fair really aliens were never going to come back anyway.
If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. The game is meant to be played out even to the end. Neither com should have a big F*CK YOU button to wreak havoc or win without the support of his team. Contaminate was originally NERFED for this reason, because contaminate/whip rushes were effective at doing just that. I'll be honest, I haven't seen what the new contaminate can actually do, but just randomly throwing damage around without any input from the team seems like a very bad design idea.
Dude, contaminate was shoehorned in as a band-aid for aliens inability to end games. Why do you want it not to do that. You earn your tech and crush with it.
The nature of the game is that marines prevent alien expansion, if aliens expand past a certain point then it becomes impossible to stop aliens. That's fucking great! But the aliens need the tools to prevent an additional 20 minutes of bullshit being added to every round where the comm can't help his team coordinate the needed pushes.
I like that aliens have a turtle buster that ends games. I like that contaminate is strong. I do not like that it has no counter what so ever. I would like to see contaminate have a soft counter. I would delay the bile bomb damage by 1.5 seconds from when the mushroom is placed, and if they mushroom is on fire or killed in that 1.5 seconds it does not do bile bomb damage. This would make contaminate a huge problem for marines, but it would still have a soft counter. Contaminate would still be strong enough to end games on its own, it just might take a little longer while marines play wack a mushroom.
If you kill the 3rd hive, they lose contaminate. That's a hard counter
Great to see some major shakeups of the gameplay. Long overdue. Marine gameplay should be fleshed out too.
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
Or how about this completely new, radical idea: Make it so exos, or maybe even JPs, require a second CC?
Sounds good. Then make it easier for marines to get that second CC.
Great to see some major shakeups of the gameplay. Long overdue. Marine gameplay should be fleshed out too.
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
Or how about this completely new, radical idea: Make it so exos, or maybe even JPs, require a second CC?
Sounds good. Then make it easier for marines to get that second CC.
I don't think it's a good idea to focus on marines getting more tech points. This doesn't even have to be a focus on marines. More than one tech point is a decent strategy before you think the aliens are going to base rush and you have a big lead or just in case of one with the lead.
Tech points aren't for marines to need to lock down with command stations. The main focus should be getting alien rt's, life forms, and hives down. Not sitting on multiple tech points.
Many times, marines will have to keep on moving and attacking to win. The only time you could sit back is when you are controlling a ton of res and waiting for certain tech. But even in that situation, you don't need to be securing and sitting (depending on res lanes) in tech points.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Some feedback:
Alien Commander abilities
- I like the new rupture ability to parasite marines. This is a safer option for khamm scouting than using drifters, and will still aid his team if they aren't doing a very good job parasiting. Cost seems fine.
Grenade Changes
- A good start on making them more useful. I still think grenade usage should be modeled off/be similar to NS1 implementation. I think having to purchase them every time after use is still limiting their usefulness. A marine should get a free grenade every spawn after comm research, and then the initial purchase at the armory. They have to pay again if they choose a different grenade type. I would make grenades just as useful as welders tactically, then tweak damage if needed.
Exos
Good changes, still need a bit more to make them as viable as JPs.
Gorge changes
I like them. Good to see webs becoming much more useful/used.
I really dislike the Power Surge thing; I think it should be reverted. I don't like changes that give the Comm/Khamm the ability to deal damage with a mouseclick; commander should be primarily a support role. It makes it less important for marines to hold their lanes, which is a big part of the game.
By the same token I don't like the contamination and rupture changes. Contamination is powerful enough as it is, and you can already echo in whips if you absolutely need bilebomb, it just costs more and requires planning ahead of time.
As for the Comeback idea, I worry that it would make certain strategies less viable. One of the most fun games of NS2 I ever played was where marine team rushed alien res with 6 on the field (no comm) and 2 IPs, dying often but constantly replacing lanes with fresh marines. It's possible the comeback res would make such a strategy impossible, which would be disappointing to me.
Rebuilding power nodes, lol... you have to be joking, I hope.
The elephant in the room is a 1300 hive player who should be 2500 coming in as a fade and clearing out a room of 5 marines who are at 1000 and should be at 200 who deal a combined damage of 100 to him and begin shooting after two of the five are already dead.
Power nodes are annoying, but even the næbs buy welders these days since they became so cheap.
Or maybe just make welders free and marines spawn with a welder... It really won't make a really huge difference in pub play win/loss ratios. Most pub games due to whatever reason I mentioned above are not nearly close enough to where "lowering power node build time by 5 seconds" will make any difference. For comp, for sure - any small change is significant because everything is so tight. Pub games are an entirely different story.
Exo's do feel more responsive. Everything feels a little quicker. Exo's are more mobile. Still though, they do not compare to a jetpack in terms of mobility. A single jetpack does not compare to an exo in terms of fire power.
The thing is, a team can only have maybe 25% exo's or it could have 100% jetpacks. In an 8v8, 7 players with jetpacks and any gun travel faster do more DPS, are harder to kill, and require less teamwork than 2 exos.
Jetpacks are still the natural choice over an exo. Exo's are better, but I don't think the issue is solved.
Exo's do feel more responsive. Everything feels a little quicker. Exo's are more mobile. Still though, they do not compare to a jetpack in terms of mobility. A single jetpack does not compare to an exo in terms of fire power.
The thing is, a team can only have maybe 25% exo's or it could have 100% jetpacks. In an 8v8, 7 players with jetpacks and any gun travel faster do more DPS, are harder to kill, and require less teamwork than 2 exos.
Jetpacks are still the natural choice over an exo. Exo's are better, but I don't think the issue is solved.
I generally agree, but I think you underestimate exos a little. If you put a welder guy and an exo in a hallway, they will freaking keep that hallway. Unless the alien team collaboratively decides to attack them, which leaves other things open. Just yesterday I was using an Exo and some help from a welder guy to keep two Onoses and two gorges (!) at bay in Smelting in Refinery, from Routing. Sadly the team didn't do anything with it. Granted, that's and extreme example, but still.
I think the main drawback of Exos is the teamwork required. It's still easy to fall into the "Exo trap", where too many players end up buying one and the team is crippled as a result. This happens 2 out of 3 times Exos get researched, really. And even if you only buy two or three, they need to coordinate which lanes they cover and they need someone with a welder to follow them around.
Compare to jetpacks, where everyone can just keep doing their own thing, but with a little more efficiency. And while it's true that an all JP team can output similar firepower to a team with Exos, this also requires teamwork; and I think a team full of jetpacks with one or two coordinated Exos will always be superior to one without.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
.. What about allowing you to fire your miniguns while thrusting backwards?
Seems like a minor change that wouldn't have too big of an impact. If an exo could use a welder on other players while inside would be a better change and probably make them more self sufficient.
I think the main drawback of Exos is the teamwork required. It's still easy to fall into the "Exo trap", where too many players end up buying one and the team is crippled as a result. This happens 2 out of 3 times Exos get researched, really. And even if you only buy two or three, they need to coordinate which lanes they cover and they need someone with a welder to follow them around.
Compare to jetpacks, where everyone can just keep doing their own thing, but with a little more efficiency. And while it's true that an all JP team can output similar firepower to a team with Exos, this also requires teamwork;...
This is what I was trying to say except you explained it in more detail.
Sure, an exo and a welder can hold a lane against two onos assuming he has a long enough line of sight. But in an 8v8, you just dedicated 2/7 field players to guard one lane. If you are in a 12v12 that isn't so bad but still.
I think the main drawback of Exos is the teamwork required. It's still easy to fall into the "Exo trap", where too many players end up buying one and the team is crippled as a result. This happens 2 out of 3 times Exos get researched, really. And even if you only buy two or three, they need to coordinate which lanes they cover and they need someone with a welder to follow them around.
Compare to jetpacks, where everyone can just keep doing their own thing, but with a little more efficiency. And while it's true that an all JP team can output similar firepower to a team with Exos, this also requires teamwork;...
This is what I was trying to say except you explained it in more detail.
Sure, an exo and a welder can hold a lane against two onos assuming he has a long enough line of sight. But in an 8v8, you just dedicated 2/7 field players to guard one lane. If you are in a 12v12 that isn't so bad but still.
Yeah, but remember, you'll tie up a similar portion of the enemy team. And if you don't, you can push.
Also, on a completely unrelated note: Can we get Railguns with Fists back, please? Railgun Exos seem laughably useless to me now. As I mentioned in a different thread, simply having dual minigun as "Minigun Exo" and fist + railgun as "Railgun Exo" would work quite nicely.
Comments
I like this idea, if the res changes do turn out to feel too "muddy" I think this could be something to look at. It was not specifically aimed at marine comebacks but alien as well- I do think it has virtues worth exploring (It also theoretically helps balance out the p-res rate increase which will benefit aliens more than marines).
I don't know what servers you guys play on, but rebuilding power nodes has never been an issue outside of base, other than being an extra structure further from the phase gate that you possibly have to build. Especially since you usually rush there with more or less your entire team to establish the gate.
Frankly, I don't think aliens need much help for comebacks - I see alien comebacks semi regularly. It's marine comebacks that are rare. This is due to The Power Of Alien PRES (TM).
For example, make the 2nd CC as important as a second hive. At the moment 2nd CCs are only built to preempt a looming desperation base rush. Perhaps having a second CC could "save" the upgrades if an arms lab is lost? Or perhaps all marines would be automatically teleported to a second CC room if the first one is destroyed? (just as for example all aliens automatically start spawning at the second hive if the other one is destroyed). I'm referring to something like an auto-beacon or something like that.
Or how about this completely new, radical idea: Make it so exos, or maybe even JPs, require a second CC?
But that neuters one of the only two reliable comebacks for marines (the other being phase gates).
I like the idea Wob mentioned in another thread.
If the com fires up the overpower on an rt to protect this rt stays inactive till one marine goes there and touch it.
With this you would still have the "pulling marines away" mechanc in the game.
I killed multiple chipped skulks in one round with powersurge, and from a skulk view its very frustrating to die that way.
But with the mechanic wob mentioned, my skulk death would not be totally pointless.
I like the powernode idea from moultano also.
You could speed up the building process if you use a welder.
Maybe then more players would buy welders.
So then just end the game when aliens research their 9th biomass then. No need to actually play it out if winning is "just a formality".
And on that note marines should get a Nuke to auto win if they control enough CCs and do the research. It's only fair really aliens were never going to come back anyway.
If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. The game is meant to be played out even to the end. Neither com should have a big F*CK YOU button to wreak havoc or win without the support of his team. Contaminate was originally NERFED for this reason, because contaminate/whip rushes were effective at doing just that. I'll be honest, I haven't seen what the new contaminate can actually do, but just randomly throwing damage around without any input from the team seems like a very bad design idea.
Suggestions:
1) remove powersurge research
2) unlock with (working) obervatory
3) usage costs 5 tres; 20 seconds cooldown
4) pulses 5 times every 1.5 - 2 seconds
5) deals 50 light damage per pulse (light damage being 4 damage absorbed for 1 point armor)
6) damage is shared across nearby aliens
7) structure does not function while overcharge is active (as if the power is out)
1) If its a research then you don't have it, when you need it, and when you have it when you don't need it.
Make it free, so you have it when you need it.
2) In order to not make it appear right away - which would be bad, because the marines would worry less about getting base rushed, and hence push much harder - it could be tied to the observatory, which would enable you to beacon anyway.
3) potentially increase both values
4) damage may be mitgated with proper timing (as skulk)
5+6)
One (no carapace) skulk survives 2 hits when full
Two (no carapace) skulks survive 4 hits when full
One (carapace) skulk survives 3 hit when full
Two (carapace) skulks survives 6 hits when full
life forms who help biting may soak damage.
7) Trade off that applies to every building, so that you really want to think about using it on a phase gate, arms lab or observatory (increases Tres cost on RTs by 1 - 1.5 Tres.)
Good point.
Yeah, but when was the last time you saw a game where marines controlled 4 CCs, aliens had one hive and marines couldnt end it?
Thought so.
Don't forget that arcs already nuke contaminate. Maybe it could be done so that 2 arcs can kill contaminate fast enough for the bile not to trigger.
Right now, arcs can not stop the bilebomb damage. Contaminate is unstoppable with no counter whatsoever.
You do bring up a point worth discussing though. If a soft counter is introduced to contaminate, what should it be? I suggested a flamethrower. I like this because it requires a players attention. Given my suggestion I am not sure arcs would work because the timer is too short. I think I prefer that it requires a players attention. But still though, there are good questions to be answered.
Assuming a soft counter is introduced similar to how I describe, how long should the delay on bilebomb damage be? Should it be just long enough enough to allow an arc to hit it? Should a single arc be able to kill a contaminate mushroom? Should it require two arcs to kill one comtaminate mushroom?
Flamethrower sounds good.
As for the timing: It could be so that the bilebomb is triggered at the _end_ of the contamination life cycle. This would marines to react and they would be punished for not doing so.
What in the world makes you want to remove asymmetry more than it already is. This I cannot understand.
Dude, contaminate was shoehorned in as a band-aid for aliens inability to end games. Why do you want it not to do that. You earn your tech and crush with it.
The nature of the game is that marines prevent alien expansion, if aliens expand past a certain point then it becomes impossible to stop aliens. That's fucking great! But the aliens need the tools to prevent an additional 20 minutes of bullshit being added to every round where the comm can't help his team coordinate the needed pushes.
If you kill the 3rd hive, they lose contaminate. That's a hard counter
Sounds good. Then make it easier for marines to get that second CC.
I don't think it's a good idea to focus on marines getting more tech points. This doesn't even have to be a focus on marines. More than one tech point is a decent strategy before you think the aliens are going to base rush and you have a big lead or just in case of one with the lead.
Tech points aren't for marines to need to lock down with command stations. The main focus should be getting alien rt's, life forms, and hives down. Not sitting on multiple tech points.
Many times, marines will have to keep on moving and attacking to win. The only time you could sit back is when you are controlling a ton of res and waiting for certain tech. But even in that situation, you don't need to be securing and sitting (depending on res lanes) in tech points.
I was genuinely interested in a reply from you on my prior post in here, since it was directed to you
Alien Commander abilities
- I like the new rupture ability to parasite marines. This is a safer option for khamm scouting than using drifters, and will still aid his team if they aren't doing a very good job parasiting. Cost seems fine.
Grenade Changes
- A good start on making them more useful. I still think grenade usage should be modeled off/be similar to NS1 implementation. I think having to purchase them every time after use is still limiting their usefulness. A marine should get a free grenade every spawn after comm research, and then the initial purchase at the armory. They have to pay again if they choose a different grenade type. I would make grenades just as useful as welders tactically, then tweak damage if needed.
Exos
Good changes, still need a bit more to make them as viable as JPs.
Gorge changes
I like them. Good to see webs becoming much more useful/used.
By the same token I don't like the contamination and rupture changes. Contamination is powerful enough as it is, and you can already echo in whips if you absolutely need bilebomb, it just costs more and requires planning ahead of time.
As for the Comeback idea, I worry that it would make certain strategies less viable. One of the most fun games of NS2 I ever played was where marine team rushed alien res with 6 on the field (no comm) and 2 IPs, dying often but constantly replacing lanes with fresh marines. It's possible the comeback res would make such a strategy impossible, which would be disappointing to me.
The elephant in the room is a 1300 hive player who should be 2500 coming in as a fade and clearing out a room of 5 marines who are at 1000 and should be at 200 who deal a combined damage of 100 to him and begin shooting after two of the five are already dead.
Power nodes are annoying, but even the næbs buy welders these days since they became so cheap.
Or maybe just make welders free and marines spawn with a welder... It really won't make a really huge difference in pub play win/loss ratios. Most pub games due to whatever reason I mentioned above are not nearly close enough to where "lowering power node build time by 5 seconds" will make any difference. For comp, for sure - any small change is significant because everything is so tight. Pub games are an entirely different story.
Frankly, Exos are super mobile now. Especially with cat pack support. It seems to work quite well.
The thing is, a team can only have maybe 25% exo's or it could have 100% jetpacks. In an 8v8, 7 players with jetpacks and any gun travel faster do more DPS, are harder to kill, and require less teamwork than 2 exos.
Jetpacks are still the natural choice over an exo. Exo's are better, but I don't think the issue is solved.
I generally agree, but I think you underestimate exos a little. If you put a welder guy and an exo in a hallway, they will freaking keep that hallway. Unless the alien team collaboratively decides to attack them, which leaves other things open. Just yesterday I was using an Exo and some help from a welder guy to keep two Onoses and two gorges (!) at bay in Smelting in Refinery, from Routing. Sadly the team didn't do anything with it. Granted, that's and extreme example, but still.
I think the main drawback of Exos is the teamwork required. It's still easy to fall into the "Exo trap", where too many players end up buying one and the team is crippled as a result. This happens 2 out of 3 times Exos get researched, really. And even if you only buy two or three, they need to coordinate which lanes they cover and they need someone with a welder to follow them around.
Compare to jetpacks, where everyone can just keep doing their own thing, but with a little more efficiency. And while it's true that an all JP team can output similar firepower to a team with Exos, this also requires teamwork; and I think a team full of jetpacks with one or two coordinated Exos will always be superior to one without.
Seems like a minor change that wouldn't have too big of an impact. If an exo could use a welder on other players while inside would be a better change and probably make them more self sufficient.
Give us the ability to choose each arm so we can do minigun/railgun or minigun/welder.. Or dual welder!!
Dual welder exos are incredibly fun. (and so damn fast)
Just no flamer exo!!
This is what I was trying to say except you explained it in more detail.
Sure, an exo and a welder can hold a lane against two onos assuming he has a long enough line of sight. But in an 8v8, you just dedicated 2/7 field players to guard one lane. If you are in a 12v12 that isn't so bad but still.
Yeah, but remember, you'll tie up a similar portion of the enemy team. And if you don't, you can push.
Also, on a completely unrelated note: Can we get Railguns with Fists back, please? Railgun Exos seem laughably useless to me now. As I mentioned in a different thread, simply having dual minigun as "Minigun Exo" and fist + railgun as "Railgun Exo" would work quite nicely.