LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited January 2014
Well its time to bring this thread back to life !
With kodiak only having minimum work done to it now + the map is on hold until after the AUS and ENSL custom map cups for more feedback. Its time to return to Ayumi
The two pictures below were sections that were ready to go way back in october! I decided not to publish them due to working on kodiak and wanting to get my first map done before getting any further with ayumi.
Unfortunatly stills do not due cold turn any justice (due to the snow fall cinematic) and yes the sky box is way off ! but in time those will be sorted. The TSA logo in the pic is the same one used in kodiak, it was copied from ayumi
Now in the forthcoming update to the level (this sunday I hope), it will NOT include those areas above. I am still testing the greybox layout and I think with this new version I will finally have one that is balanced and ready for texturing up.
I have tried to keep the layout and general theme as close to as possible as NS1 however this is a remake for NS2 it will not be a carbon copy of NS1 ayumi. So there will be changes due to the map being re-made. I might expand upon some rooms (add new ones in) while keeping the theme of ayumi. I have also been looking at the NS1 NSL version of ayumi for ideas on how they made it play in comp games back then.
Anything you would like to see? give me your opinions !
My primary aim is to make this map feel like its sucessor not just a straight port from NS1 (that layout does not work in NS2, I tried that).
I gave it a quick look and watched the SCC playtest video. What happened with the new Hayao room, next to Ghibli ? It's huge, what do you want to do with it ?
Also, the long corridor that leads to the north tech point from the western one, makes it a long walk to defend RTs (marines) and very easy for aliens to bite them (thanks to the many vents)
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Soo a slight necro here!
After playing a round on this map last week at the SCC I decided to update the map and release some of the previous unseen work I did on the map from back in 2013
eastern entrance is the only area that is nearly completed there are a few other areas on the map that are partly done, eitherway enjoy
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
I mean, it's not entirely unlikely that they paint pipes blue instead of red in the future. But it is pretty unlikely that they run pipes that huge hanging from ceilings ever. I'll assume it's a duct ^.^
One of the biggest problems with ns_ayumi was the absolute dominance of Cold Turn. A phase gate there instantly denied one hive with a nearly unassailable sieging position (Hamasaki) and set up an undefendable fight towards the second (Pressure). Information bank corridors were a nightmare for aliens to defend when the marine train started rolling. Furthermore, Cold Turn offered surprisingly good map control being on the other side of the map from marine start, automatically locking down two resnodes and being an easy room to defend.
Your version doesn't really seem to solve these problems. Granted that the spot seems to offer a bit less map control with the changes to section zero, but Hamasaki lockdown is still absolute, especially if the hive can be sieged from that unassailable hallway, and the marines can still just trivially walk up to Pressure control and set up ground that the aliens cannot realistically attack. I think most of these problems could be fixed by making sure that Hamasaki cannot be sieged from the Cold Turn site - maybe rotate the hive room 180 degrees? Information bank needs to be a lot more alien friendly, or at the very least make it sure that Pressure Control hive cannot be sieged from that side. I feel like Information bank should be connected to Server Outlet perhaps by a one-way drop, so that lerks and fades can harass pushing marines from behind without the marines being able to push Server resnode - the vent alone does not provide aliens enough defensive edge.
I do not know how finished the brushwork itself is, but I feel like a lot of the corridors are much too wide and long, where marines can hold lines of sight impossible for any alien to challenge. Fixing this with boxes and props would only give the map the same death sentence Eclipse got with long hallways full of clutter instead of interesting and engaging geometry.
The travel times are absolutely ridiculous. Going around the map as a marine takes about 1.5x the time it takes on Summit. A lot of the rooms have needless bends that exacerbate this issue. It takes 45 seconds for a non-sprinting, rifle-wielding marine to walk from Marine Start to Pressure - the exact same time it takes to walk from Data through Sub to Flight control on Summit, that is to say, to the other side of the entire map. The map doesn't have a clear central hub, further making cross-map traveling more difficult for both teams. All in all I feel like most corridors could be shrunk down by approximately 25%, and there is a lot of empty room between spaces to cater for this. The bottom half of the map has a lot of alternative routes (although I feel like they could be made more interesting than mostly corridors), but the top half of the map is basically one long tube that takes forever to travel.
I agree here with the cold turn statment and I am working with zavaro on trying to lessen its impact on the game (as well as the section zero route). That corridor you mention is on the list to get changed as it is an issue. However you can not arc the hive or RT from cold turn (but that corridor you can) which needs fixing ofc. Its an interesting idea you have mentioned about server bank / outlet area its not one anyone so far has conceived of and it sounds good I do like the idea of a one way drop
The brushwork is not finished at all, the only room that could be considered finished is eastern entrance but it has some glaring LOS issues that I need to resolve.
The map is fixed marine start, random alien spawns.
From the ideas put forward by zavaro the reactor room is well on its way to being a "central area / route". Needless to say this weekends update to the map should alter a fair few things. As for the travel times some routes do need shortening.
About the sieging of Hamasaki, I actually did mean the corner of the corridor from Cold Turn towards the hive room. Aliens cannot attack that corridor at all once marines have set up.
At the current layout, Reactor does not, at all, function as a hub-like area. It needs drastic changes if the room wants to become relevant - at the moment it's a glorified marine natural that will see no action apart from resbiting. Linking it to the north-eastern corner of the map (Monitoring, Central Junction, Cold Turn) would fix this and help the top part of the map get rid of the tube syndrome, but might further emphasise the importance of Cold Turn.
I really do think that the top half of the map needs a thorough rework. If the aliens start at Pressure, the marines' victory condition becomes to take hold of Cold Turn, and the game is over. That one room cuts access to the entirety of the rest of the map and cannot be assaulted; the room is easy to defend and trying to flank the marines would essentially mean having to travel more than half the length of the map through other marine-controlled areas.
About the sieging of Hamasaki, I actually did mean the corner of the corridor from Cold Turn towards the hive room. Aliens cannot attack that corridor at all once marines have set up.
At the current layout, Reactor does not, at all, function as a hub-like area. It needs drastic changes if the room wants to become relevant - at the moment it's a glorified marine natural that will see no action apart from resbiting. Linking it to the north-eastern corner of the map (Monitoring, Central Junction, Cold Turn) would fix this and help the top part of the map get rid of the tube syndrome, but might further emphasise the importance of Cold Turn.
I really do think that the top half of the map needs a thorough rework. If the aliens start at Pressure, the marines' victory condition becomes to take hold of Cold Turn, and the game is over. That one room cuts access to the entirety of the rest of the map and cannot be assaulted; the room is easy to defend and trying to flank the marines would essentially mean having to travel more than half the length of the map through other marine-controlled areas.
Yeah. There's some huge changes coming to reactor, and I personally do not like most of the routes on the map as it stands currently. None play all that well. Currently the area called Section Zero will be completely removed and redesigned around reactor, giving it sort of a pseudo peripheral hallway connection to it and connect to Monitoring. Another path will be built to the area between AE35 and Eastern. Hamasaki's entrances will be redesigned. Cold Turn needs to be shortened and maybe an angle introduced to it. You get the point.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Remaking this map for NS2 is quite a challenge. @Loki, I remember ages ago i refered you to ns_ayumi_e_b5, which was an attempt to remake Ayumi for ensl play.
Judging from your current layout, I don't think you took any inspiration from it.
In case you forgot: extra.ensl.org/static/maps/ns1/ns_ayumi_e_b5.rar
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
The south part of the map has taken some serious inspiration from it, but it needs to have a thorough geo pass over everything more or less, given the blandness of corridors and whatnot else. Hopefully we can have that ready for Sunday.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
@pSyk0mAn yeah I did work on it some 2 / 3 years ago only recently within the last 2 months or so restarted work on it. I have literally taken some rooms from the ensl version and zavaro re worked the south to pretty much match it, its slow work going through the level wheN I dont have much time atm and there are some issues with the ensl one for ns2 (for example the super long line of sight outside marine start).
anyway as time progresses it will look a lot more like the ensl version I am sure
I am eagerly waiting for the next iteration, especially if it includes the changes you've mentioned. Ayumi was always one of my favourite ns maps, but I always understood that it was only fun, not an actual competitive one. Here's to hoping that it can be made into one.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Oh well for some reason I checked on an older version. Now I can see it.
Looks very promising, the changes to pressure control hive area seem very smart (going away from that 1 entrance hive room) and I really like the art style you went for in eastern entrance.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited May 2016
So after a round playing it today I thought I'd leave some initial feedback for you.
I realize its still really early on (best time for feedback!) and I realize I only played a single round as a Marine, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
Here's a picture of what the layout currently looks like with room names for anyone's reference:
Map geo is looking amazing.. you guys (loki and zavaro) really have a knack for utilizing curves / geo to shape flow. Hallways and Techpoints all feel so unique
I feel like Pressure Control would be a better Marine Start due to the shape of the hallways and the amount of lanes.
This was the biggest impression I received from playing the map today... that the southwest portions of the map are incredibly alien friendly.. especially for being so close to Marine start and one of the naturals. This results in Glass Hallway being pretty much indefensible due to the amount of lanes that need to be covered, and if Aliens start with Hamasaki this can be doubly punishing* (more on this later), and finally it allows for 3 different major lanes to marine start. So to recap, the hallways are too cramped /curved for being just outside marine start, and there are too many lanes in general to cover in that area.
Compare the differences between hallways outside of Pressure Control (top of map) and the ones just south of Marine start:
For this reason I suggest widening some of the bottlenecks just outside of marine start and most importantly removing the connection between Routing and Oxygen. In my mind this solves most of the issues, and still allows aliens to utilize the vent system or a typically used lane to reach the Marine natural.
A comparison of my suggestion in a gif :
Hamasaki start has some notable advantages for Aliens. It's the only TP for aliens that takes 3 cysts to reach both its naturals (the other two TPs require 4 for each natural) and the lanes outside of the techpoint are more cramped/twisted and curvy than the other two hive points with a vent system directly to the hive that branches out. (that subsequently can pour out into two other possible vent paths)
I don't like AE 35 being a starting point for Aliens.. It's close spawns, and would deny marines both their naturals really easily.
AE 35 needs more than one way for marines to enter. But if you want to maintain the balcony look just place two of these on either side of the powernode.
Remove the unnecessary pillars in Hamasaki, I mistakenly thought it was framed for glass that didn't have the reflection working correctly - especially since the prior panel DID have glass. You dont want glass there anyways, as it would make the room pretty OP imo... so might as well remove those two inner pillars so as not to fool players.
[IMG][/img]
I don't know what the purpose for this room next to marine start is.. unless it's just to make bile bombing marine start easier? Because that's all I saw it used for.
Troll hallways, or hallways without purpose, as well as well lit doors that do not open and are not blocked with props... need to die.
Map is looking really pretty and unique already.. definitely excited to see what you guys do with it!
Thanks for the game, ping me next time you guys play it.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
A full TGNS server reviewed this map together and agreed they wanted to play it /after/ some obstructions created more opportunities for skulks to close the distance in the map's many very long hallways. Let that influence design priorities as you will.
Everyone was excited about the prospect of playing Ayumi in NS2.
All right, so the sieging of Hamasaki has been solved, but I see little of the other problems I mentioned being addressed here.
Mainly the total isolation of Pressure Control. It might as well have a different zip code with how far it is from everything else. Consider the following travel times, measured with a rifle-wielding non-sprinting marine:
(the times are measured with a rifle-wielding non-sprinting marine purely for benchmarking purposes, do not get fixated on the fact that marines can travel faster than this)
Pressure Control is 46% farther from Marine Start than AE35, and even 28% farther than Hamasaki, which is on the opposite side of the map from MStart. Furthermore, if you start at the doorway at Reactor, start walking towards Pressure control, and measure the time it takes for you to reach a junction where you first get to choose which direction to go (Pipeline), it comes down to 48 seconds of walking without getting to decide where to go. Aliens starting at Pressure Control are horribly cut off from the rest of the map. This goes against the design philosophy that NS maps should resemble spider webs, i.e. there should a lot of connections so that players can choose from alternative routes to travel and flank enemies.
Also, the marine naturals (Reactor and Glass hallway) are too far away from Marine start. It takes 13 and 14 seconds to reach Glass hallway and Reactor, respectively, by a marine wielding an axe and sprinting (making it a realistic figure under optimal circumstances). This time should usually be less than 10 seconds, so that killing the recapper doesn't award an automatic RT kill by virtue of the respawner not having time to reach the site before the extractor goes down. The marine naturals are also horrible to laneblock, as both rooms have plenty of routes to get into. It should be an achievement for a skulk to get behind the marine lines and start biting on a marine natural, juking marines trying to block lanes or capitalise on the marine team's attention being drawn elsewhere. In the current layout, especially Glass Hallway is trivial for a skulk to sneak into. The marines should rarely lose their naturals unless they are preoccupied by a larger goal, but as it is, I can see Reactor and Glass hallway being harassed non-stop with a high success rate.
I also really dislike the heavy usage of props that have been sprouting up around the map. Walking from South-East Turn to Eastern Entrance, the marine is met by three separate props blocking his line of sight. These are completely unnecessary, as the geometry of the room and the entrances are already fine when it comes to gameplay and lines of sight. The marine friendliness of Information Bank has been fixed by littering it with boxes. Look at maps that use a minimal amount of props, and how they tackle this issue. The geometry alternates between open areas and tighter spaces. The marines excel at fighting inside open rooms, while aliens excel at fighting at entrances. You do not have to make every room-like area a maze of cover that aliens can exploit by requiring marines to fix their crosshairs on a dozen prop-induced corners at the same time. The marines should have an edge defending a room, since the aliens should either engage them after they start pushing out of their safe haven or overpower them with numbers. You do not have to balance the room around an alien team that tries to attack well-positioned marines with even numbers, because those aliens would be playing it wrong. Removing long lines of sight by using props just removes the depth of positioning from the gaming; every room becomes a homogenic soup that has no good or bad positioning because every position can be engaged by juggling through the props. Learn a lesson from Eclipse and don't force people to play on a map that feels like stepping into an untidy room of an 8-year-old with a floor full of toys.
In addition to criticism, I do have suggestions.
Move both marine naturals closer to Marine Start. Switch the places of Oxygen and Glass hallway, no other adjustments necessary. Move the Reactor resnode to the other side of the room, next to the door towards Marine Start. Introduce a connection between Monitoring, Reactor and Central junction; this would improve Reactor's position as something more interesting than a glorified marine natural, make Central Junction more "central" and lessen the isolation of Pressure Control. Shorten travel times to Pressure from both sides. Remove Power Access altogether as it is completely vestigial and serves no purpose. Shorten North-West Turn and Information Bank by approx. 20-25%. Introduce a quasi-connection between Server Outlet and Information Bank to make alien travel more fluid and flanking possible. Last, but not least, drop the usage of props to about 10-20%. Do not be afraid of giving marines long lines of sight and strong positions in locations that do not break the map. The aliens are the ones who decide where to engage, and a marine sitting in a strong position without being an immediate threat can on most occasions be ignored. You do not need to pamper aliens who choose bad engagements by making every room a cluttered clusterphock.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited May 2016
Just for reference the overview of ns_ayumi_ensl:
I agree that AE35 is a little too close to Glass Hallway and Marine spawn, but you can compare this side of the map and its gameplay concept with the Sub sector/West side in Veil, so its no big issue, imho.
Im not sure tho, why the res node in Hayamo was removed, which makes the distance to Glass Hallway and Reactor less problematic.
I feel like Reactor is totally out of place. A remake of a loved NS1 map shud be as close to the original as possible.
Pressure is definately too far away. It's way closer to Marine spawn in Ayumi_ensl for obvious reasons.
If you look at the Ayumi_ensl overview you can see that Power Access III is at the position of reactor and makes the route to Pressure control shorter.
I suggest moving Ae35 farther away from the map to the right,
replacing Reactor with Power Access and removing Monitoring between Pressure and Cold turn to move this whole area closer to the map.
Edit: Nevermind about Ae35, i just saw the changes in the recent version and it might be ok that way.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited May 2016
I forgot there was a res in hayamo, I had been looking at adding a RT in to the south path to AE since it is a possible for an alien spawn in AE35 so need separating by two RTs.
Reactor is totally out of place (it was more me just getting carried away at designing a reactor) and the end result of the room will be far closer to ns1. However boring flat walls need replacing with somthing more "visually landmarkish". Since aliens dont use ladders in NS2 and elevators dont exist I cant have such a massive height varation in starchild as there was in ns1 (also the level over level issue). I have been reworking that area referring at the ns1 and nsl star child layout and the room and reactor itself will end up looking along the lines of this
As I said before the map you were playing was done before I was aware of the NSL version of the map hence why pressure control is still an issue. It is the last area of the old map that myself or @Zavaro will end up redesigning
Rest assured the map will stay close to its initial incarnation (within the limits of ns2 ofcourse) it was one of my favourite maps to play on. Although the room names may end up being changed in ns2, the old names will still be visable in game just not on the minimap. This is down to a lot of people not being able to pronounce them and giving up when trying to direct players to those rooms.
@Therius As for the random crates everywhere they were thrown in to make it more playable. IF you were refering however to the eastern entrance crates (and forklift) those will be going as they were added before we reworked the entrances to that room to reduce the long line of sight a littlebit.
Comments
With kodiak only having minimum work done to it now + the map is on hold until after the AUS and ENSL custom map cups for more feedback. Its time to return to Ayumi
The two pictures below were sections that were ready to go way back in october! I decided not to publish them due to working on kodiak and wanting to get my first map done before getting any further with ayumi.
Unfortunatly stills do not due cold turn any justice (due to the snow fall cinematic) and yes the sky box is way off ! but in time those will be sorted. The TSA logo in the pic is the same one used in kodiak, it was copied from ayumi
Now in the forthcoming update to the level (this sunday I hope), it will NOT include those areas above. I am still testing the greybox layout and I think with this new version I will finally have one that is balanced and ready for texturing up.
I have tried to keep the layout and general theme as close to as possible as NS1 however this is a remake for NS2 it will not be a carbon copy of NS1 ayumi. So there will be changes due to the map being re-made. I might expand upon some rooms (add new ones in) while keeping the theme of ayumi. I have also been looking at the NS1 NSL version of ayumi for ideas on how they made it play in comp games back then.
Anything you would like to see? give me your opinions !
My primary aim is to make this map feel like its sucessor not just a straight port from NS1 (that layout does not work in NS2, I tried that).
Also, the long corridor that leads to the north tech point from the western one, makes it a long walk to defend RTs (marines) and very easy for aliens to bite them (thanks to the many vents)
But I have to say, the map looks interesting.
Btw on which maps did NS1 comp players play ?
but for now I am not working on this map at all. If anyone does want to take over it pm me.
Until I just see all your maps in your signature...
After playing a round on this map last week at the SCC I decided to update the map and release some of the previous unseen work I did on the map from back in 2013
eastern entrance is the only area that is nearly completed there are a few other areas on the map that are partly done, eitherway enjoy
Any shots of the updated catbus?
Can we get a kickstarter going for it?
Your version doesn't really seem to solve these problems. Granted that the spot seems to offer a bit less map control with the changes to section zero, but Hamasaki lockdown is still absolute, especially if the hive can be sieged from that unassailable hallway, and the marines can still just trivially walk up to Pressure control and set up ground that the aliens cannot realistically attack. I think most of these problems could be fixed by making sure that Hamasaki cannot be sieged from the Cold Turn site - maybe rotate the hive room 180 degrees? Information bank needs to be a lot more alien friendly, or at the very least make it sure that Pressure Control hive cannot be sieged from that side. I feel like Information bank should be connected to Server Outlet perhaps by a one-way drop, so that lerks and fades can harass pushing marines from behind without the marines being able to push Server resnode - the vent alone does not provide aliens enough defensive edge.
I do not know how finished the brushwork itself is, but I feel like a lot of the corridors are much too wide and long, where marines can hold lines of sight impossible for any alien to challenge. Fixing this with boxes and props would only give the map the same death sentence Eclipse got with long hallways full of clutter instead of interesting and engaging geometry.
The travel times are absolutely ridiculous. Going around the map as a marine takes about 1.5x the time it takes on Summit. A lot of the rooms have needless bends that exacerbate this issue. It takes 45 seconds for a non-sprinting, rifle-wielding marine to walk from Marine Start to Pressure - the exact same time it takes to walk from Data through Sub to Flight control on Summit, that is to say, to the other side of the entire map. The map doesn't have a clear central hub, further making cross-map traveling more difficult for both teams. All in all I feel like most corridors could be shrunk down by approximately 25%, and there is a lot of empty room between spaces to cater for this. The bottom half of the map has a lot of alternative routes (although I feel like they could be made more interesting than mostly corridors), but the top half of the map is basically one long tube that takes forever to travel.
That's my quick two cents.
I agree here with the cold turn statment and I am working with zavaro on trying to lessen its impact on the game (as well as the section zero route). That corridor you mention is on the list to get changed as it is an issue. However you can not arc the hive or RT from cold turn (but that corridor you can) which needs fixing ofc. Its an interesting idea you have mentioned about server bank / outlet area its not one anyone so far has conceived of and it sounds good I do like the idea of a one way drop
The brushwork is not finished at all, the only room that could be considered finished is eastern entrance but it has some glaring LOS issues that I need to resolve.
The map is fixed marine start, random alien spawns.
From the ideas put forward by zavaro the reactor room is well on its way to being a "central area / route". Needless to say this weekends update to the map should alter a fair few things. As for the travel times some routes do need shortening.
At the current layout, Reactor does not, at all, function as a hub-like area. It needs drastic changes if the room wants to become relevant - at the moment it's a glorified marine natural that will see no action apart from resbiting. Linking it to the north-eastern corner of the map (Monitoring, Central Junction, Cold Turn) would fix this and help the top part of the map get rid of the tube syndrome, but might further emphasise the importance of Cold Turn.
I really do think that the top half of the map needs a thorough rework. If the aliens start at Pressure, the marines' victory condition becomes to take hold of Cold Turn, and the game is over. That one room cuts access to the entirety of the rest of the map and cannot be assaulted; the room is easy to defend and trying to flank the marines would essentially mean having to travel more than half the length of the map through other marine-controlled areas.
Only a complete experience with ayumi_rr.mp3
Yeah. There's some huge changes coming to reactor, and I personally do not like most of the routes on the map as it stands currently. None play all that well. Currently the area called Section Zero will be completely removed and redesigned around reactor, giving it sort of a pseudo peripheral hallway connection to it and connect to Monitoring. Another path will be built to the area between AE35 and Eastern. Hamasaki's entrances will be redesigned. Cold Turn needs to be shortened and maybe an angle introduced to it. You get the point.
@Loki, I remember ages ago i refered you to ns_ayumi_e_b5, which was an attempt to remake Ayumi for ensl play.
Judging from your current layout, I don't think you took any inspiration from it.
In case you forgot:
extra.ensl.org/static/maps/ns1/ns_ayumi_e_b5.rar
anyway as time progresses it will look a lot more like the ensl version I am sure
Looks very promising, the changes to pressure control hive area seem very smart (going away from that 1 entrance hive room) and I really like the art style you went for in eastern entrance.
I realize its still really early on (best time for feedback!) and I realize I only played a single round as a Marine, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
Here's a picture of what the layout currently looks like with room names for anyone's reference:
This was the biggest impression I received from playing the map today... that the southwest portions of the map are incredibly alien friendly.. especially for being so close to Marine start and one of the naturals. This results in Glass Hallway being pretty much indefensible due to the amount of lanes that need to be covered, and if Aliens start with Hamasaki this can be doubly punishing* (more on this later), and finally it allows for 3 different major lanes to marine start. So to recap, the hallways are too cramped /curved for being just outside marine start, and there are too many lanes in general to cover in that area.
Compare the differences between hallways outside of Pressure Control (top of map) and the ones just south of Marine start:
For this reason I suggest widening some of the bottlenecks just outside of marine start and most importantly removing the connection between Routing and Oxygen. In my mind this solves most of the issues, and still allows aliens to utilize the vent system or a typically used lane to reach the Marine natural.
A comparison of my suggestion in a gif :
Map is looking really pretty and unique already.. definitely excited to see what you guys do with it!
Thanks for the game, ping me next time you guys play it.
Everyone was excited about the prospect of playing Ayumi in NS2.
Mainly the total isolation of Pressure Control. It might as well have a different zip code with how far it is from everything else. Consider the following travel times, measured with a rifle-wielding non-sprinting marine:
Marine Start -> AE35: 28 seconds
AE35 -> Hamasaki: 22 seconds
Hamasaki - Pressure: 33 seconds
Pressure - Marine Start: 46 seconds
Marine start - Hamasaki: 36 seconds
(the times are measured with a rifle-wielding non-sprinting marine purely for benchmarking purposes, do not get fixated on the fact that marines can travel faster than this)
Pressure Control is 46% farther from Marine Start than AE35, and even 28% farther than Hamasaki, which is on the opposite side of the map from MStart. Furthermore, if you start at the doorway at Reactor, start walking towards Pressure control, and measure the time it takes for you to reach a junction where you first get to choose which direction to go (Pipeline), it comes down to 48 seconds of walking without getting to decide where to go. Aliens starting at Pressure Control are horribly cut off from the rest of the map. This goes against the design philosophy that NS maps should resemble spider webs, i.e. there should a lot of connections so that players can choose from alternative routes to travel and flank enemies.
Also, the marine naturals (Reactor and Glass hallway) are too far away from Marine start. It takes 13 and 14 seconds to reach Glass hallway and Reactor, respectively, by a marine wielding an axe and sprinting (making it a realistic figure under optimal circumstances). This time should usually be less than 10 seconds, so that killing the recapper doesn't award an automatic RT kill by virtue of the respawner not having time to reach the site before the extractor goes down. The marine naturals are also horrible to laneblock, as both rooms have plenty of routes to get into. It should be an achievement for a skulk to get behind the marine lines and start biting on a marine natural, juking marines trying to block lanes or capitalise on the marine team's attention being drawn elsewhere. In the current layout, especially Glass Hallway is trivial for a skulk to sneak into. The marines should rarely lose their naturals unless they are preoccupied by a larger goal, but as it is, I can see Reactor and Glass hallway being harassed non-stop with a high success rate.
I also really dislike the heavy usage of props that have been sprouting up around the map. Walking from South-East Turn to Eastern Entrance, the marine is met by three separate props blocking his line of sight. These are completely unnecessary, as the geometry of the room and the entrances are already fine when it comes to gameplay and lines of sight. The marine friendliness of Information Bank has been fixed by littering it with boxes. Look at maps that use a minimal amount of props, and how they tackle this issue. The geometry alternates between open areas and tighter spaces. The marines excel at fighting inside open rooms, while aliens excel at fighting at entrances. You do not have to make every room-like area a maze of cover that aliens can exploit by requiring marines to fix their crosshairs on a dozen prop-induced corners at the same time. The marines should have an edge defending a room, since the aliens should either engage them after they start pushing out of their safe haven or overpower them with numbers. You do not have to balance the room around an alien team that tries to attack well-positioned marines with even numbers, because those aliens would be playing it wrong. Removing long lines of sight by using props just removes the depth of positioning from the gaming; every room becomes a homogenic soup that has no good or bad positioning because every position can be engaged by juggling through the props. Learn a lesson from Eclipse and don't force people to play on a map that feels like stepping into an untidy room of an 8-year-old with a floor full of toys.
In addition to criticism, I do have suggestions.
Move both marine naturals closer to Marine Start. Switch the places of Oxygen and Glass hallway, no other adjustments necessary. Move the Reactor resnode to the other side of the room, next to the door towards Marine Start. Introduce a connection between Monitoring, Reactor and Central junction; this would improve Reactor's position as something more interesting than a glorified marine natural, make Central Junction more "central" and lessen the isolation of Pressure Control. Shorten travel times to Pressure from both sides. Remove Power Access altogether as it is completely vestigial and serves no purpose. Shorten North-West Turn and Information Bank by approx. 20-25%. Introduce a quasi-connection between Server Outlet and Information Bank to make alien travel more fluid and flanking possible. Last, but not least, drop the usage of props to about 10-20%. Do not be afraid of giving marines long lines of sight and strong positions in locations that do not break the map. The aliens are the ones who decide where to engage, and a marine sitting in a strong position without being an immediate threat can on most occasions be ignored. You do not need to pamper aliens who choose bad engagements by making every room a cluttered clusterphock.
I agree that AE35 is a little too close to Glass Hallway and Marine spawn, but you can compare this side of the map and its gameplay concept with the Sub sector/West side in Veil, so its no big issue, imho.
Im not sure tho, why the res node in Hayamo was removed, which makes the distance to Glass Hallway and Reactor less problematic.
I feel like Reactor is totally out of place. A remake of a loved NS1 map shud be as close to the original as possible.
Pressure is definately too far away. It's way closer to Marine spawn in Ayumi_ensl for obvious reasons.
If you look at the Ayumi_ensl overview you can see that Power Access III is at the position of reactor and makes the route to Pressure control shorter.
I suggest moving Ae35 farther away from the map to the right,
replacing Reactor with Power Access and removing Monitoring between Pressure and Cold turn to move this whole area closer to the map.
Edit: Nevermind about Ae35, i just saw the changes in the recent version and it might be ok that way.
Reactor is totally out of place (it was more me just getting carried away at designing a reactor) and the end result of the room will be far closer to ns1. However boring flat walls need replacing with somthing more "visually landmarkish". Since aliens dont use ladders in NS2 and elevators dont exist I cant have such a massive height varation in starchild as there was in ns1 (also the level over level issue). I have been reworking that area referring at the ns1 and nsl star child layout and the room and reactor itself will end up looking along the lines of this
As I said before the map you were playing was done before I was aware of the NSL version of the map hence why pressure control is still an issue. It is the last area of the old map that myself or @Zavaro will end up redesigning
Rest assured the map will stay close to its initial incarnation (within the limits of ns2 ofcourse) it was one of my favourite maps to play on. Although the room names may end up being changed in ns2, the old names will still be visable in game just not on the minimap. This is down to a lot of people not being able to pronounce them and giving up when trying to direct players to those rooms.
@Therius As for the random crates everywhere they were thrown in to make it more playable. IF you were refering however to the eastern entrance crates (and forklift) those will be going as they were added before we reworked the entrances to that room to reduce the long line of sight a littlebit.