I've been playing on experimental for forever now, and I don't find it too bad. I like the feeling of it having more inertia and drag. It was weird to me how the Seamoth felt more agile than swimming in person. That said, it's probably a bit too heavy right now; the Seamoth feels very tank-like now. Additionally, I think there should be a way to toggle free-look/submarine-motion controls when piloting the Seamoth so it doesn't make people get such terrible bouts of motion sickness, like in classic flight simulators.
I'm pretty sure the main problem with the way it is now is the disconnect between mouse movements causing extreme head movements but minimal sub movements at the same time. If the head movement was locked when steering the Seamoth, people would be far less prone to motion sickness.
I've been playing on experimental for forever now, and I don't find it too bad. I like the feeling of it having more inertia and drag. It was weird to me how the Seamoth felt more agile than swimming in person. That said, it's probably a bit too heavy right now; the Seamoth feels very tank-like now. Additionally, I think there should be a way to toggle free-look/submarine-motion controls when piloting the Seamoth so it doesn't make people get such terrible bouts of motion sickness, like in classic flight simulators.
I'm pretty sure the main problem with the way it is now is the disconnect between mouse movements causing extreme head movements but minimal sub movements at the same time. If the head movement was locked when steering the Seamoth, people would be far less prone to motion sickness.
Yeah the head movement vs sub movement is what does it for me. It seems they want to make the player be able to "look around" while driving the sub but currently the controls are also linked to piloting the sub resulting in a disconnect for the player and ultimately motion sickness. I say turn it back to the way it was and add a diff keybind for looking around while the sub is moving.
If the head movement was locked when steering the Seamoth, people would be far less prone to motion sickness.
Really good point!
As for my part, I add my vote to the "give me a choice" solution.
I'm looking into the concerns raised in this thread.
There was no intentional change to the way the Seamoth works. There were however some changes to the code that were intended to address bugs. One was a fix for frame rate dependence of the turn rate, which we took back out because it seemed like it actually made the problem worse (it made the turn rate very slow for some people). The other was incorporating the mouse sensitivity into the Seamoth turn rate.
This bug fix may have caused an issue, or unmasked some behavior that was always there. Or, some seemingly unrelated code maybe have affected the Seamoth. Either way, we are working to identify the issue and fix it.
thanks for the answer on this issue @Max
all of those that didnt like how the seamoth's steering behaved recently (me included) will be happy to see this
If the head movement was locked when steering the Seamoth, people would be far less prone to motion sickness.
Really good point!
As for my part, I add my vote to the "give me a choice" solution.
I'm looking into the concerns raised in this thread.
There was no intentional change to the way the Seamoth works. There were however some changes to the code that were intended to address bugs. One was a fix for frame rate dependence of the turn rate, which we took back out because it seemed like it actually made the problem worse (it made the turn rate very slow for some people). The other was incorporating the mouse sensitivity into the Seamoth turn rate.
This bug fix may have caused an issue, or unmasked some behavior that was always there. Or, some seemingly unrelated code maybe have affected the Seamoth. Either way, we are working to identify the issue and fix it.
Thanks for looking into it Max, nice to see the devs so responsive to community concerns.
Perfect !
You can imagine a button to hold/switch mode to have your head free.
Like : Center click on mouse
So when you use your mouse the ship have yawl and pitch and when you hold the key you can look around.
A same way to use for cyclops could be great (more mabiability )
This is a definite need to be fixed ASAP problem. From a VR standpoint, this makes no sense. Not sure why people think this if for VR. I would hate it if the headmove is automatic while I'm not moving my head......Goes against everything that is VR.
What is even more problematic is the autothrottle they've seemed to have implemented. Now that is a game breaker. You can't auto adjust my top end just because someone else has a problem running into things if they can't keep their foot off the throttle. Let Darwinsim work, don't hamper the throttle and make everyone suffer because of it. They even did it to swimming. You can't swim as fast as you should when close to the terrain. Almost died in the horrible driving Seamoth due to not being able to move faster than half throttle due to the autoadjustment. Horrible idea who ever thought of this.......plain horrible.
Much appreciated Max. My seamoth is docked, and I miss the cool fast navigation between mushroom trees, and cave tubes, with out a single CRUNCH sound. Controls were responsive and fairly precise. Could go flying through a cave with no bumps. Looking forward to getting my little buddy back to proper operation.
Either way, we are working to identify the issue and fix it.
Excellent. Happy to see this is being looked into. Though I'm rather confused how anyone could have not noticed it. Surely, it's awful for everyone when trying to drive the vehicle.
To explain what it feels like, imagine having your steering wheel connected to the steering column of your car by a thick rubberband. You have to oversteer to get the car to turn, but the direction the wheel is facing "snaps back" when you let go of it if the car hasn't caught up yet. When you move the mouse to steer the craft, the "head" turns first and then the craft lags behind the head. But what's worse is that if you let go of the mouse before the craft has centered on the head, the head will attempt to snap back to where the craft is pointing WHILE the craft is still trying to catch up to where the head is pointing. This makes it utterly impossible to point your vision (or your craft) in any particular direction without several attempts to compensate. This is most noticeable when trying to explore using the seamoth. Looking for fragments with it is a nightmare. Travelling in a straight line is fine, but that's really the only thing it does well now.
I don't know whether I'm getting used to the response, or if there's been some kind of patch, but it seems that the Seamoth steering has improved. It's still not as responsive as before, but the amount of "overshoot" seems to have diminished. However, when turning the vehicle the image "stutters" in very noticeable manner, as if frame rate has gone to 3 or 4 fps. But the fish keep swimming in their normal patterns and without stutters.
KlinnLost in a caveJoin Date: 2016-03-09Member: 214022Members
I realize the devs can't do everything at once, and I'm sure fixing the LOD frame rate issues ate up a lot of time for the Machinery Update, but I hope that they can now swing their attention to fixing this issue.
The seamoth is a major feature of the game. It needs some lovin' too!
Looking forward to the new stable version! Might start playing again if the Seamoth steering has been fixed. Anybody know if it was?
To be clear... it was FINE in the "Farming Update". But I think it was the "Oculus Update" which broke it. The "Machinery Update" did not fix it.
The player's vision should be LOCKED to the craft's direction. It shouldn't drift around when you steer. That's the main issue.
I am holding out hope that the devs make it so the drivers head is fixed and we turn our head by using the Alt key to look side to side and up and down. Steering would stay the same with the mouse like it is now.
I agree with preference for locked as default. It seems to me that the seamoth is sort of a hybrid between swimming (forward locked to head/mouse direction) and cyclops (forward is independent of where you're looking), and the catch-up of gaze and ship re-aligning to each other makes the world spin. I'm pretty used to it but I'm suspect if my wife tried it that she'd be on the floor. :-j
Well, it'd be dead easy for the devs to fix. Just put the code back to how it was in the Farming Update when the Seamoth was a dream to fly around the ocean with.
Really, if someone has an oculus rift, just allow the head to move independently of motion, but if someone is NOT using that device, then lock the head to the craft.
Linking the mouse to BOTH steering the craft and turning the head is a terrible, terrible idea. It causes that highly disorienting rubber-band effect when you stop steering, and it also makes the craft CONTINUE to turn AFTER you let go of the mouse, as it is trying to center with the player's head. That is absolutely awful and needs to go away.
I do have a feeling that some people's brains can reconcile this type of motion, and so they aren't bothered by it. But really... A LOT of people are going to hate this style of motion. I for one, can barely use the Seamoth, it's so disorienting. It's been enough to kick me right out of the game and do something else while I wait for the devs to fix it. A shame too, since I was REALLY enjoying Subnautica for a while there and would like to continue to do so.
KlinnLost in a caveJoin Date: 2016-03-09Member: 214022Members
I think you're right that some people are more affected by the issue than others. Dunno what's behind the difference in perception, but I'm definitely in the "can't even use the Seamoth any more" camp.
But it may not be as simple to fix as you hope. From a previous dev post, it sounded like they weren't quite sure why it went wonky. That is, it wasn't an obvious direct change they made to the Seamoth itself but a side effect of other changes made in the VR update. I would guess that if it was easy to isolate and test, the devs would have already fixed it.
All we can do is bring up the issue every once in a while so it doesn't fall off their to-do list entirely. Save the Seamoth!
It's a bit of a concern that I can't seem to find this bug in the Trello page to be fixed. Do the devs plan on finishing the game with the Seamoth in its current state? I'm really surprised that so few people are talking about this issue.
I can't find anything either! I have loved just driving around the map in my Seamoth (a few updates back) and exploring stuff but the "new" steering really ruined that for me now
Is it not possible to put in an option to choose the steering method? To disable the "crosshair gets dragged into the middle" thingy? If I remember it correctly, before the update(s), steering worked in such a way that the Seamoth would gradually change its moving direction toward where your cursor/crosshair is pointing. Now it only turns half-way in that direction and your camera (crosshair) gets dragged back, which makes it really annoying to turn.
Luckily I don't get sick from it, but it's no fun either. I hope a dev can (again?) shed some more light on this, whether it's intended or not and whether a fix is possible
Just checking again to see if the devs have maybe acknowledged this as important to fix.
Checked Reddit too, and people there don't like it either, but nobody has any word on if/when it might be fixed.
PLEASE fix this! How can they possibly think that the current steering is acceptable? If I were developing the game, I'd stop everything else and quick-fix this first so that playtesting the rest of the game would be tolerable. But it seems people just "don't mind" this?? Is that the case?
I have a feeling its to enhance the Oculus Rift users. I for one will never buy one with the cost upwards of $600. With that kind of $$$ I could buy a top of the line video card.
And then I wouldn't get that sick feeling if I turn my seamoth to fast.
I haven't played the game since the seamoth steering lag change. Please fix this, I'd love to play the game again but using the seamoth makes me extremely nauseous. It used to be this zippy little thing now it's completely broken. Do I need to make a new thread to get dev attention?
I have a feeling its to enhance the Oculus Rift users. I for one will never buy one with the cost upwards of $600. With that kind of $$$ I could buy a top of the line video card.
And then I wouldn't get that sick feeling if I turn my seamoth to fast.
Why would the game break the Seamoth for everyone who does NOT use the oculus rift? Also, isn't there a separate version of the game for OR users? That makes no sense.
This is rather a game-breaking issue for me. It takes too long to swim everywhere.
If we were given the choice to lock the head to be the same as the seamoth, or an option to travel in third-person, the problem would likely be solved.
Please fix this issue so that we can continue to play this amazing game!
Just registered to add my voice to the chorus on this. I just popped Subnautica on after not playing it for several months. Barreling the Seamoth about used to be one of my favourite things to do in this game, but the way it controls now is far less enjoyable. Seamoth gameplay is the first point in the game where you feel like you've really started to Make It, so I'd recommend you definitely look into tackling this before release.
Comments
Sorry, it's not always clear in the OP when people are talking about experimental.
I'm pretty sure the main problem with the way it is now is the disconnect between mouse movements causing extreme head movements but minimal sub movements at the same time. If the head movement was locked when steering the Seamoth, people would be far less prone to motion sickness.
Yeah the head movement vs sub movement is what does it for me. It seems they want to make the player be able to "look around" while driving the sub but currently the controls are also linked to piloting the sub resulting in a disconnect for the player and ultimately motion sickness. I say turn it back to the way it was and add a diff keybind for looking around while the sub is moving.
As for my part, I add my vote to the "give me a choice" solution.
There was no intentional change to the way the Seamoth works. There were however some changes to the code that were intended to address bugs. One was a fix for frame rate dependence of the turn rate, which we took back out because it seemed like it actually made the problem worse (it made the turn rate very slow for some people). The other was incorporating the mouse sensitivity into the Seamoth turn rate.
This bug fix may have caused an issue, or unmasked some behavior that was always there. Or, some seemingly unrelated code maybe have affected the Seamoth. Either way, we are working to identify the issue and fix it.
all of those that didnt like how the seamoth's steering behaved recently (me included) will be happy to see this
Thanks for looking into it Max, nice to see the devs so responsive to community concerns.
You can imagine a button to hold/switch mode to have your head free.
Like : Center click on mouse
So when you use your mouse the ship have yawl and pitch and when you hold the key you can look around.
A same way to use for cyclops could be great (more mabiability
What is even more problematic is the autothrottle they've seemed to have implemented. Now that is a game breaker. You can't auto adjust my top end just because someone else has a problem running into things if they can't keep their foot off the throttle. Let Darwinsim work, don't hamper the throttle and make everyone suffer because of it. They even did it to swimming. You can't swim as fast as you should when close to the terrain. Almost died in the horrible driving Seamoth due to not being able to move faster than half throttle due to the autoadjustment. Horrible idea who ever thought of this.......plain horrible.
Excellent. Happy to see this is being looked into. Though I'm rather confused how anyone could have not noticed it. Surely, it's awful for everyone when trying to drive the vehicle.
To explain what it feels like, imagine having your steering wheel connected to the steering column of your car by a thick rubberband. You have to oversteer to get the car to turn, but the direction the wheel is facing "snaps back" when you let go of it if the car hasn't caught up yet. When you move the mouse to steer the craft, the "head" turns first and then the craft lags behind the head. But what's worse is that if you let go of the mouse before the craft has centered on the head, the head will attempt to snap back to where the craft is pointing WHILE the craft is still trying to catch up to where the head is pointing. This makes it utterly impossible to point your vision (or your craft) in any particular direction without several attempts to compensate. This is most noticeable when trying to explore using the seamoth. Looking for fragments with it is a nightmare. Travelling in a straight line is fine, but that's really the only thing it does well now.
The seamoth is a major feature of the game. It needs some lovin' too!
To be clear... it was FINE in the "Farming Update". But I think it was the "Oculus Update" which broke it. The "Machinery Update" did not fix it.
The player's vision should be LOCKED to the craft's direction. It shouldn't drift around when you steer. That's the main issue.
Really, if someone has an oculus rift, just allow the head to move independently of motion, but if someone is NOT using that device, then lock the head to the craft.
Linking the mouse to BOTH steering the craft and turning the head is a terrible, terrible idea. It causes that highly disorienting rubber-band effect when you stop steering, and it also makes the craft CONTINUE to turn AFTER you let go of the mouse, as it is trying to center with the player's head. That is absolutely awful and needs to go away.
I do have a feeling that some people's brains can reconcile this type of motion, and so they aren't bothered by it. But really... A LOT of people are going to hate this style of motion. I for one, can barely use the Seamoth, it's so disorienting. It's been enough to kick me right out of the game and do something else while I wait for the devs to fix it. A shame too, since I was REALLY enjoying Subnautica for a while there and would like to continue to do so.
But it may not be as simple to fix as you hope. From a previous dev post, it sounded like they weren't quite sure why it went wonky. That is, it wasn't an obvious direct change they made to the Seamoth itself but a side effect of other changes made in the VR update. I would guess that if it was easy to isolate and test, the devs would have already fixed it.
All we can do is bring up the issue every once in a while so it doesn't fall off their to-do list entirely. Save the Seamoth!
Is it not possible to put in an option to choose the steering method? To disable the "crosshair gets dragged into the middle" thingy? If I remember it correctly, before the update(s), steering worked in such a way that the Seamoth would gradually change its moving direction toward where your cursor/crosshair is pointing. Now it only turns half-way in that direction and your camera (crosshair) gets dragged back, which makes it really annoying to turn.
Luckily I don't get sick from it, but it's no fun either. I hope a dev can (again?) shed some more light on this, whether it's intended or not and whether a fix is possible
Checked Reddit too, and people there don't like it either, but nobody has any word on if/when it might be fixed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/subnautica/comments/4do9ug/autocenter_for_seamoth_is_very_very_annoying/
PLEASE fix this! How can they possibly think that the current steering is acceptable? If I were developing the game, I'd stop everything else and quick-fix this first so that playtesting the rest of the game would be tolerable. But it seems people just "don't mind" this?? Is that the case?
And then I wouldn't get that sick feeling if I turn my seamoth to fast.
Let's just push this shamelessly until we get what we demand
/push
Why would the game break the Seamoth for everyone who does NOT use the oculus rift? Also, isn't there a separate version of the game for OR users? That makes no sense.
If we were given the choice to lock the head to be the same as the seamoth, or an option to travel in third-person, the problem would likely be solved.
Please fix this issue so that we can continue to play this amazing game!