On Mods, Community and Communication - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Posts: 466 vanilla
edited March 2016 in NS2 General Discussion

imageOn Mods, Community and Communication - Natural Selection 2

Greetings fellow chompers and frontiersmen, I didn’t want this to be a very lengthy blog post, I’m a fan of short and sweet. However we at UWE wanted to address...

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Comments

  • rantologyrantology Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 972 Advanced user
    only ns2+ or NSL mod aswell?
    return to zero
  • AbsurdonAbsurdon GermanyMembers Join Date: 2015-02-09 Member: 201274Posts: 69 Fully active user
  • HadesiosHadesios FranceMembers Join Date: 2016-03-07 Member: 213971Posts: 2
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    What about NS2c
    mattji104
  • YaluzanYaluzan Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2013-07-30 Member: 186474Posts: 53 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    only ns2+ or NSL mod aswell?

    NSL mod isn't from mendasp, dangit meph:p
    ensl.org Head Admin, can contact for anything NSL related.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Mods have always been near and dear to the NS franchise, but in this case it has evolved into something more. Mods have become something more than just mods. They have become a parachute. A parachute for developers, that because features and requests desired by the community were provided through mods, they might not have gotten the attention they deserved from us and thus never implemented into the vanilla game. But they also became a parachute for the community. Because so many requests and fixes were being made by mods, the feedback slowly became channeled much less at developers and much more at the mod creators. This is unfair to our mod creators because these mods should not be receiving such undeserved pressure and high expectations.

    It's nice to hear UWE acknowledge this and I hope everyone doesn't forget about it now that the mods are coming back, otherwise history will repeat itself.

    Hopefully UWE can listen to the compmod folks for balancing discussions so competitive players don't need to play a different ns2 than the rest of the community.
    WobThe_Welsh_Wizard
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited March 2016
    ^Iept- the original post doesn't discuss comp mod integration perhaps for a reason. If UWE is balancing the game for more than 6 v 6 in mind, there might always need to be some differences. That doesn't mean bug fixes and balance discussions can't happen - I just don't know how quick there will be a 6 v 6 mode without a comp mod and still have it balanced for both 6 v 6 and larger player servers.
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Posts: 920 mod
    Thus ends #Moddergate. Hip hip, []! Hip hip, []! Hip, hip, []!
    TGNS Portal | NS2 side-by-side game viewer
    IronHorse wrote: »
    TG's win or lose mod that replaces the concede function is the best of both worlds and should be official.
  • WobWob Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Posts: 485 Advanced user
    edited March 2016
    rantology wrote: »
    I want to go ahead and nip this in the bud

    :') Communication :')

    It's happening!!
    Deck_YaluzanAbsurdoncoolitic
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Deck_ wrote: »
    ^Iept- the original post doesn't discuss comp mod perhaps for a reason. If UWE is balancing the game for more than 6 v 6 in mind, there might always need to be some differences. That doesn't mean bug fixes and balance discussions can't happen - I just don't know how quick there will be a 6 v 6 mode without a comp mod and still have it balanced as well as on bigger servers.

    There are changes in compmod that are more than just 6v6 oriented, like fixing the absurdity of having silent aliens going max speed with celerity. Since in ns2 they decided to take silence from the movement chamber and merge it with cloaking from the sensory chamber, making the phantom for veil.
    rantology wrote: »
    Thanks IeptBarakat! but I want to go ahead and nip this in the bud because I know there's a lot of passion that springs up when people talk about balance changes. Game balance is a whole other animal and we will approach it in a very different manner- I don't want anyone to get the idea that we're suddenly coordinating with competitive players about game balance- for the moment no game balance changes are planned and when they are discussed, they will be sure to incorporate all levels of play and every corner of our playerbase- not just competitive players.

    The changes referenced in the post from NSL mod and NS2+ will be by and large the big QoL features they bring to the game, which are separate matters entirely from game balance.

    Yeah, I figured this would be the case. I was just hoping for some middle ground in the community as a whole regarding balance, not just to incorporate every idea from competitive players.
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    1. What does this mean for rapid iteration? Will it stay? If so, why? I still don't understand the advantage it provides over a big patch every three weeks or so.
    2. That picture at the top with gorge's ecstatic, zoned out and lazy look while belly sliding reminded me of a drug user and changed my view on gorges forever


    (Make no mistake the part of this post I care about and that you should respond to is 1. but I just couldn't keep that to myself)
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • niitzeniitze Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2013-07-01 Member: 185839Posts: 26 Fully active user
    edited March 2016
    So what have we learned? Things UWE should do:

    1) Emphasize that players should report bugs etc. to devs not to moddders
    2) Before releasing a patch: test that popular mods, which are used on majority of the servers, work (if you want to keep rapid iterations)
    2,5) (And) dont rely on modders to fix bugs
    3) Listen to and actively ask advice from people who know about the game (in this case 2 modders)
    4) Hire mendasp
    Me9aTane
  • AbsurdonAbsurdon GermanyMembers Join Date: 2015-02-09 Member: 201274Posts: 69 Fully active user
    @IeptBarakat you are right there are some nice changes in compmod even nice for non 6v6 but as far as my understanding goes it's balanced with the 6v6 in mind so it might not fit on normal servers were most of the time more players per side
    for the bugfixes implemented by @xDragon (pls correct me if i'm mistaken) was an extra mod without the balancing stuff named ns2 tweaks or smthn like this
    as for the bugfixes implemented in vanilla would be great aswell as some QoL features. but as @rantology said balancing is a whole other shoe so just taking over these will not work and will prbly break the experience on servers far from 6v6

    ps: just played another round with ns2+ finaly back on again. so much better :3 thx @Mendasp
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    Aw.. I was just learning a few new songs. Goodbye real life.

    But I just want to clarify, only ns2+ has returned? Rip hmgs still?
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    You're a fkn champion, @xDragon. Thank you.
    coolitic
  • MigeMige Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2005-03-19 Member: 45796Posts: 166 Fully active user
    edited March 2016
    So we finally see that a long waited tournament mode since beta days <3 What do we get from ns2+? a long needed performance tweaks, COD disable effects and some round statics? What niitze said also some eNSL members needs more manners to communicate. Thanks dragon for the ENLS support ;) BTW did you finish that NS1:source project?
    Aka Naatti also known Nade (Nde) from Saunamen. My rig: 6600k @ 4.5ghz, 3200mhz 16gb ram, r9 NANO & WIN 10 64 Pro <3 Freesync 
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    rantology wrote: »
    1. What does this mean for rapid iteration? Will it stay? If so, why? I still don't understand the advantage it provides over a big patch every three weeks or so.

    Rapid iteration will stay, however we're continuously learning and revising ways to make it work better. We're aware of issues brought up about not being able to disable extensions and we're going to be looking into it during our first meeting next week.

    Thanks for answering that; I still wonder what rapid iteration is supposed to be good for, though?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Posts: 2,838 admin
    edited March 2016
    rantology wrote: »
    1. What does this mean for rapid iteration? Will it stay? If so, why? I still don't understand the advantage it provides over a big patch every three weeks or so.

    Rapid iteration will stay, however we're continuously learning and revising ways to make it work better. We're aware of issues brought up about not being able to disable extensions and we're going to be looking into it during our first meeting next week.

    Thanks for answering that; I still wonder what rapid iteration is supposed to be good for, though?

    Faster iteration or agile development has a a lot of advantages compared to the more classical systems.

    The most important point for you is that development now is very user orientated:
    • By pushing smaller builds each week we can react directly to your feedback. Instead of being unable to do so because given feature has been in development for over 1 month and there are already other features based onto it.
    • It creates transparency and allows you as customer to follow development much easier. No longer will we have multiple pages long change logs nobody even dares to completely read throw nor do users have to wait for a month for a critical patch.
    • Working week to week gives us a developer some more flexibility in matter of focusing on new ideas and feedback of the community instead of keep working on the features we agreed to go into the next build 2 weeks ago.
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
    HamletSantaClawsNordiccoolitic
  • ZycaRZycaR Members Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8263Posts: 542 Advanced user
    edited March 2016
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    rantology wrote: »
    1. What does this mean for rapid iteration? Will it stay? If so, why? I still don't understand the advantage it provides over a big patch every three weeks or so.

    Rapid iteration will stay, however we're continuously learning and revising ways to make it work better. We're aware of issues brought up about not being able to disable extensions and we're going to be looking into it during our first meeting next week.

    Thanks for answering that; I still wonder what rapid iteration is supposed to be good for, though?

    Faster iteration or agile development has a a lot of advantages compared to the more classical systems.

    The most important point for you is that development now is very user orientated:
    • By pushing smaller builds each week we can react directly to your feedback. Instead of being unable to do so because given feature has been in development for over 1 month and there are already other features based onto it.
    • It creates transparency and allows you as customer to follow development much easier. No longer will we have multiple pages long change logs nobody even dares to completely read throw nor do users have to wait for a month for a critical patch.
    • Working week to week gives us a developer some more flexibility in matter of focusing on new ideas and feedback of the community instead of keep working on the features we agreed to go into the next build 2 weeks ago.

    Alright. Thanks.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    2. That picture at the top with gorge's ecstatic, zoned out and lazy look while belly sliding reminded me of a drug user and changed my view on gorges forever


    (Make no mistake the part of this post I care about and that you should respond to is 1. but I just couldn't keep that to myself)

    That's exactly what I look like on a sunday afternoon after a big roast dinner. Have you never seen the look on the face of someone who has Gorge'd themselves on food? That's not a drug look, thats a food coma!!
    Games:Subnautica Fan Game Mods: GorgeCraft & CTF & Proving Grounds Website: andysoulrider.uk
    Twitter: @AndySoulRider Twitch: Twitch.tv/SoulRider YouTube: Youtube.com/user/IamSoulRider/videos

    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
    coolitic2coughnavazka
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