"Changed all previous customization variants to be items instead of DLC (except Black Armor)" sounds like we're getting ready for free to play bring it on.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
UWE loses credibility if black armor is traded, as they said one thing and did another.
UWE has more than enough credibility to take that hit in stride.
As a black armor owner, I'm fine with seeing it worn by folks who didn't buy it when I did. If my latest evidence to other players of my supporting UWE is something I did years ago, it's just not that interesting.
I want to buy only the damn shotgun skin. I go to buy. Wont let me select payment method other than my steam wallet, which is empty. To purchase, I need to put 5 dollars in my steam wallet first? ($5 the minimum)
I don't want to put 5 FUCKING dollars into my steam wallet to buy something that is not $5, I want to spend only however the hell much the shotgun is. Am I missing something?!
I want to buy only the damn shotgun skin. I go to buy. Wont let me select payment method other than my steam wallet, which is empty. To purchase, I need to put 5 dollars in my steam wallet first? ($5 the minimum)
I don't want to put 5 FUCKING dollars into my steam wallet to buy something that is not $5, I want to spend only however the hell much the shotgun is. Am I missing something?!
That's the norm for ingame market transactions now, you can only use credit cards for DLC which the new items aren't being sold as. It's the same with cs:go, tf2, and others where you buy an item that goes directly to your inventory.
So unless you have the bare minimum required already in your Steam wallet you won't be able to buy it without adding another $5.
For me, having Black Armor says "I believed in you, UWE, even though you didn't actually have a game yet."
Being able to suddenly trade that initial badge-of-faith so that any random Joe can have it just seems...offensive.
There will be plenty of other skins to choose from once the market gets filled up.
Summary:
(+) Black Armor buyers might feel differently now and its their armor.
(+) They don't play the game anymore but don't want the Armor to be "lost".
(+) They can put a hefty prize on that "value".
(+) You don't have to sell yours. You would have a choice.
(+) Developers get a portion of the Steam tax as far as I read. If thats true you keep supporting devs now.
(-) Seeing someone with Black Armor doesn't necessarily mean he's the initial NS2 supporter (apart from Deluxe people), but a rich NS2 supporter or player.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2016
Not to rain on anyone's parade here just throwing this out there, because this is still a sensitive issue and I just had to check a few things to see what UWE actually said regarding this to try and clear this thing up... We can grasp at straws, but I prefer some real quotes instead... So, UWE did indeed say a few things in the past regarding the Black Spec-Ops Armour (NS2 Special Edition). It tells us the story of it never being available again, in any way, shape or form. I'll just leave this here and highlighted the bits regarding this entire issue (for those lazy TLDR; boobs out there )
Something else you should know is that when we release alpha 1 at the end of this month, we are also discontinuing the NS2 Special Edition and all-black marine armor. It will no longer be available after this date, ever. Also, players that order NS2 after July 26th won’t be able to play in the release date alpha. Here’s an in-game shot of the limited edition black marine armor:
If you’ve been on the fence about ordering the Special Edition, you now have two weeks to decide. If you have the Special Edition, you will be able to choose your armor when you play – possibly at the Armory, like the rest of your weapons and equipment!
Email from 26/07/2010:
Hey everyone!
Well, tonight's the night we release the first NS2 alpha on Steam. It will be available to everyone that's pre-ordered the NS2 Special Edition. Read about the alpha and see some new screenshots here:
Thanks for your incredible support everyone and we hope to see you on the servers tonight!
-The NS2 Team
Email from 27/07/2010:
Thank you for your pre-order of the Special Edition of Natural Selection 2!
The support of players like yourself has made a huge difference for our
company and has allowed us to develop Natural Selection 2 completely
independently.
Today we're releasing the Alpha of Natural Selection 2. Access to the alpha
is limited to those people who pre-ordered the Special Edition. In order to
play, you will need to activate your ownership of the Special Edition on
Steam. You can do this with the following key:
Black armor will never be DLC or available in any other way"
If you are an employee of Unknown Worlds you are granted access to all of our offerings on Steam, which includes the black armor. That's just how the system works.
The map testers were mistakenly marked as employees of Unknown Worlds in Steam, so they got the black armor temporarily. That has since been corrected
Thank you to everyone how helped support us in the early days of NS2.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2016
True, but that only says things about Reinforced and Championship content. So anything mentioned there has no bearing on the exclusive content of "NS2 Special Edition". Only if one of the two big bosses @Flayra or @Max say something different about this issue... It does not have any bearing on Black Armour.
So until that happens, and they will face a lot of backlash and praise at the same time (sensitive issue like I said ), it should remain exclusive as mentioned in the NS2 Special Edition related stuff I quoted.
Of course it has bearing on the Black Armor. I don't see any difference if UWE said something some more years ago or 1 year ago. Why didn't Shadow Gorge, Shadow Lerk and Elite Assault Armor stay exclusive in the same manner and then been opened for discussion to make it tradeable? Otherwise this is just hypocrisy. Bulls***! @Flayra, @Max.
Black armor is and always should be not tradeable or sold again, to be honest you'd be pissing allot of people off for good reasons. We've talked about this before i will not get into it.
People who want black armour/armor are just salty they can't get it, deal with it and move along, you didn't have it, you missed out and so did many people who probably should have bought it instead of buying the $1.00 version of NS2. But that's the price you pay for how much you would support a cause for something at the time, these things expire. And to those who just missed out because you didn't see it, i entertain the idea that you don't deserve it because you were just too late.
Lifes tough, but here's where i agree with Artifical scarcity at this one time in my life.
If i remember correctly the exclusivity for Elite assault armour/armor was due to it being exclusive to the actual pack you bought, hence exclusive. It wasn't actually Max, Flayra or any of the core UWE members choice, you should actually blame marketing for that, especially for the "re-pack"
Black Armour is like the constellation badge of NS2, see how many people whinged after the constellation program shut down? yeah well i bought 4accounts to support them over the years, and i'm pretty sure i have bought a fair few NS2 accounts too on the side(lost count), but none the less people don't deserve things they really do not deserve.
Can the pistol and axe be skinned so that when you select the rifle, the other two match it? ...And why does NS2 allow choosing separate skins for shotgun and rifle? I like stuff to match, but that's me.
It tells us the story of it never being available again, in any way, shape or form
Great point, Kouji. Thanks for re-posting those articles!
Then remove Shadow Gorge, Shadow Lerk and Elite Assault Armor from the stores aswell. Your hypocrisy is extremly pissing me off.
But that's the price you pay for how much you would support a cause for something at the time, these things expire. And to those who just missed out because you didn't see it
I actually don't even wan't the Black Armor and am happily content with my Deluxe. But I don't see why Shadow Gorge gets a different treatment than Black Armor. It was for the same prize, cause and in the end with similar promises.
It wasn't actually Max, Flayra or any of the core UWE members choice
It tells us the story of it never being available again, in any way, shape or form
Great point, Kouji. Thanks for re-posting those articles!
Then remove Shadow Gorge, Shadow Lerk and Elite Assault Armor from the stores aswell. Your hypocrisy is extremly pissing me off.
But that's the price you pay for how much you would support a cause for something at the time, these things expire. And to those who just missed out because you didn't see it
I actually don't even wan't the Black Armor and am happily content with my Deluxe. But I don't see why Shadow Gorge gets a different treatment than Black Armor. It was for the same prize, cause and in the end with similar promises.
It wasn't actually Max, Flayra or any of the core UWE members choice
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited February 2016
Seems like the consensus is that although many are OK with Black Armor being available in the store, it does go against what UWE has said to its earliest supporters. What I'm considering doing now is to just grant the Black Armor as an item to those that own it (for consistency sake, so all customization items are visible in inventory), but not have it be tradable or marketable.
We should look to the future / adding other stuff, rather than continue to dwell on the Black Armor. What other items do you guys want to see?
Also, this was my conception, not Hugh's; so if you want someone to be mad at, be mad at me.
Seems like the consensus is that although many are OK with Black Armor being available in the store, it does go against what UWE has said to its earliest supporters. What I'm considering doing now is to just grant the Black Armor as an item to those that own it (for consistency sake, so all customization items are visible in inventory), but not have it be tradable or marketable.
We should look to the future / adding other stuff, rather than continue to dwell on the Black Armor. What other items do you guys want to see?
Also, this was my conception, not Hugh's; so if you want someone to be mad at, be mad at me.
the rifle from ns2 combat to give players that ns1 feel as they shoot skulks
It tells us the story of it never being available again, in any way, shape or form
Great point, Kouji. Thanks for re-posting those articles!
Then remove Shadow Gorge, Shadow Lerk and Elite Assault Armor from the stores aswell. Your hypocrisy is extremly pissing me off.
But that's the price you pay for how much you would support a cause for something at the time, these things expire. And to those who just missed out because you didn't see it
I actually don't even wan't the Black Armor and am happily content with my Deluxe. But I don't see why Shadow Gorge gets a different treatment than Black Armor. It was for the same prize, cause and in the end with similar promises.
It wasn't actually Max, Flayra or any of the core UWE members choice
UWE did let people think that when the customers were buying the pack (any reinforcement pack if I remember correctly), this pack wouldn't be available once the "reinforcement program deadline" is reached. It's called publicity and terms of a deal.
Basically and technically (law), it's part of the deal. Whatever is your opinion on the price (75$ to 300$ at the time) this is THE things the customers did buy. Not half of it.
You don't change a deal! It is widely accepted in economy and written in laws of a lot of countries as well. Even the worst ones. Without it, no trust, no business, ...chaos basically.
The deal was to help devs, and have a little something visible in game for a few people. The skins were the "uniqueness" provided by UWE.
I mean you probably wouldn't accept to pay for the reinforcement program if you knew the skins would be available in the near future by exchanging. Or if the skins were accessible for a cheaper price.
Don't get it wrong there is no more reinforcement skins IDs available (i suppose actually). The number of black armor (or else) provided won't change. But the terms are quite clear.
The defense argument would be to say that the owners can surrender their "assets" as they please. But the deal is specific and works both ways: "never being available again, in any way, shape or form". The users aren't supposed to provide such material either. It's like a part of your Steam profile you can't change... exchange.
If somebody provides the means to acquire the reinforcement skins, it breaks the terms of the initial deal. The only solution would be to see both parties 'UWE/customers" to agree on new terms for this. I guess no Black armor owner did sign an agreement.
So I do not understand why UWE do that as it exposes the company to potential lawsuit. It's not gonna go far, but it's a clear change of terms. It has to be accepted, not enforced.
We are getting close to the abyss concerning credibility. As i said, the players are the best publicity of this game. Fùc|<'em (the biggest supporters) and you can kiss goodbye your reputation.
the rifle from ns2 combat to give players that ns1 feel as they shoot skulks
This would also be awesome. I'd actually love to see it as an official weapon alternative for all marines (and not an item), but even if it was just a visual mod, it would be cool.
Comments
UWE has more than enough credibility to take that hit in stride.
As a black armor owner, I'm fine with seeing it worn by folks who didn't buy it when I did. If my latest evidence to other players of my supporting UWE is something I did years ago, it's just not that interesting.
I want to buy only the damn shotgun skin. I go to buy. Wont let me select payment method other than my steam wallet, which is empty. To purchase, I need to put 5 dollars in my steam wallet first? ($5 the minimum)
I don't want to put 5 FUCKING dollars into my steam wallet to buy something that is not $5, I want to spend only however the hell much the shotgun is. Am I missing something?!
That's the norm for ingame market transactions now, you can only use credit cards for DLC which the new items aren't being sold as. It's the same with cs:go, tf2, and others where you buy an item that goes directly to your inventory.
So unless you have the bare minimum required already in your Steam wallet you won't be able to buy it without adding another $5.
anyways, good job on the skins; there are my favorites now.
Carry on.
Thanks bb @Golden
Summary:
Good job guys!
We can now conclude that anything said in the past is null and void.
So until that happens, and they will face a lot of backlash and praise at the same time (sensitive issue like I said
NS2 Can of Worms Edition
@Flayra, @Max.
People who want black armour/armor are just salty they can't get it, deal with it and move along, you didn't have it, you missed out and so did many people who probably should have bought it instead of buying the $1.00 version of NS2. But that's the price you pay for how much you would support a cause for something at the time, these things expire. And to those who just missed out because you didn't see it, i entertain the idea that you don't deserve it because you were just too late.
Lifes tough, but here's where i agree with Artifical scarcity at this one time in my life.
If i remember correctly the exclusivity for Elite assault armour/armor was due to it being exclusive to the actual pack you bought, hence exclusive. It wasn't actually Max, Flayra or any of the core UWE members choice, you should actually blame marketing for that, especially for the "re-pack"
Black Armour is like the constellation badge of NS2, see how many people whinged after the constellation program shut down? yeah well i bought 4accounts to support them over the years, and i'm pretty sure i have bought a fair few NS2 accounts too on the side(lost count), but none the less people don't deserve things they really do not deserve.
Great point, Kouji. Thanks for re-posting those articles!
I actually don't even wan't the Black Armor and am happily content with my Deluxe. But I don't see why Shadow Gorge gets a different treatment than Black Armor. It was for the same prize, cause and in the end with similar promises.
Thats not how UWE works i thought.
We also just recently had a similar discussion: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139834/shadow-gorge-as-a-dlc
This is pathetic.
He is angered, run to the hills and abandon all rational thought.
We should look to the future / adding other stuff, rather than continue to dwell on the Black Armor. What other items do you guys want to see?
Also, this was my conception, not Hugh's; so if you want someone to be mad at, be mad at me.
the rifle from ns2 combat to give players that ns1 feel as they shoot skulks
We have found the witch
Still... What @Kouji_San posted reveals one fact.
- UWE did let people think that when the customers were buying the pack (any reinforcement pack if I remember correctly), this pack wouldn't be available once the "reinforcement program deadline" is reached. It's called publicity and terms of a deal.
- Basically and technically (law), it's part of the deal. Whatever is your opinion on the price (75$ to 300$ at the time) this is THE things the customers did buy. Not half of it.
- You don't change a deal! It is widely accepted in economy and written in laws of a lot of countries as well. Even the worst ones. Without it, no trust, no business, ...chaos basically.
- The deal was to help devs, and have a little something visible in game for a few people. The skins were the "uniqueness" provided by UWE.
I mean you probably wouldn't accept to pay for the reinforcement program if you knew the skins would be available in the near future by exchanging. Or if the skins were accessible for a cheaper price.Don't get it wrong there is no more reinforcement skins IDs available (i suppose actually). The number of black armor (or else) provided won't change. But the terms are quite clear.
The defense argument would be to say that the owners can surrender their "assets" as they please. But the deal is specific and works both ways: "never being available again, in any way, shape or form". The users aren't supposed to provide such material either. It's like a part of your Steam profile you can't change... exchange.
If somebody provides the means to acquire the reinforcement skins, it breaks the terms of the initial deal. The only solution would be to see both parties 'UWE/customers" to agree on new terms for this. I guess no Black armor owner did sign an agreement.
So I do not understand why UWE do that as it exposes the company to potential lawsuit. It's not gonna go far, but it's a clear change of terms. It has to be accepted, not enforced.
We are getting close to the abyss concerning credibility. As i said, the players are the best publicity of this game. Fùc|<'em (the biggest supporters) and you can kiss goodbye your reputation.
This would also be awesome. I'd actually love to see it as an official weapon alternative for all marines (and not an item), but even if it was just a visual mod, it would be cool.
Hell yeah, the gold tsa katana was my most used mod back in the day. Felt like a badass killing skulks in combat with it.