My assumption would be that if they are removing terraforming, it will be entirely, so no base pieces excavating the terrain, and probably not even the "dig sand" command anymore. For bases, this won't actually hurt me much as I already go to great lengths to avoid my base pieces interfering with the terrain, but I can see how this will cause problems for some people, especially those who like to build bases on the islands or in caves.
That said, I found the tweet by Charlie Cleveland regarding the terraformer, and after reading it, I can understand the reasoning for removing it. It would seem that its use causes perfomance and save game issues that are a problem even for the PC and not just the XB1. Though I would be sad to see it go completely, if it needs to go for real performance reasons (size of the saved game for steam users being the most valid reason I can accept... you should never cut features out of a PC game so that it can fit on a console IMO), then it needs to go.
On the other hand, maybe there is some middle ground that might leave it in the game, but cause its impact on memory and game progression to be much less. My thinking here would be to adjust its function so that instead of wholesale scooping and depositing of terrain like a magic backhoe, it functions much more like the raise / lower terrain tools from the older sim-city games, where it only moves the terrain, and even then, only to a certain degree. This would preserve the ability make small adjustments to the terrain to fit base pieces while at the same time eliminating the ability to completely destroy terrain or build wholly new features. I would hope that this would also significantly decrease the memory footprint because the save file wouldn't have to keep track of new voxels, instead only having to keep track of where the old ones have been moved to.
I do far more damage to the terrain by inadvertently digging sand when trying to pick something up. If they disabled that or made it so you need two empty hands to dig they'd cut the deformations by 75%. Cause when a sandshark is moving towards me I click on that sandstone like a madman to get my silver and go.
Being able to terraform is a big thing that makes subnatica unique. Not sure what long term holding power its going to have once we exhaust the resources since nothing respawns.
It's a massive loss for creativity though. The terraformer for me was a tool to be used to trim the area of my base so no rocks would be floating in mid air/water. Or to provide some ground for the supporting beams of my moonpool.
But I can see how people making entire new islands might be problematic... I don't think that was intended.
Being able to terraform is a big thing that makes subnatica unique. Not sure what long term holding power its going to have once we exhaust the resources since nothing respawns.
Personally I hope they don't remove this capacity or placing the modules will become very difficult, especially the rooms and the moonpool.
nah - you empty your inventory of titanium, and place all the foundations you can, then you build rooms, deconstruct them, and build them elsewhere on the same foundations - rinse and repeat to level a whole mountain top, the only limiting factor is how low you can place your first foundation
Personally I only ever used it once to see it in action. Never felt any need or desire to reshape the seascape.
I've also always thought it a bit at odds with the game's theme. They've indicated the story will be Avatar'esque, and us swimming about ripping up the landscape to suit our every whim doesn't gel with that. It gels more with the original terraforming mission we were on.
In my mind, a single-player sandbox game is not really a 'cheating' type of game because who are you competing against?
Think about the future.
It's single-player now. The devs haven't promised but also haven't ruled out multi-player and are keenly aware that many want it for Subnautica.
It's a sandbox now. The plan is for a story-driven game and the terraformer could be a major problem there. For example, there could be caves deep below the sea floor which we're meant to make our way to. There could be story-gated obstacles. Advanced tech we need to acquire/research/develop and use. Big nasty fishes we need to get around. And a terraformer could just bypass it all.
Personally I only ever used it once to see it in action. Never felt any need or desire to reshape the seascape.
I've also always thought it a bit at odds with the game's theme. They've indicated the story will be Avatar'esque, and us swimming about ripping up the landscape to suit our every whim doesn't gel with that. It gels more with the original terraforming mission we were on.
In my mind, a single-player sandbox game is not really a 'cheating' type of game because who are you competing against?
Think about the future.
It's single-player now. The devs haven't promised but also haven't ruled out multi-player and are keenly aware that many want it for Subnautica.
It's a sandbox now. The plan is for a story-driven game and the terraformer could be a major problem there. For example, there could be caves deep below the sea floor which we're meant to make our way to. There could be story-gated obstacles. Advanced tech we need to acquire/research/develop and use. Big nasty fishes we need to get around. And a terraformer could just bypass it all.
Sandbox mode will probably be a thing for the duration. From what the Trello roadmap cards are showing, it looks like the story mode will be added in as an optional content line rather than the only way to play.
Sandbox mode will probably be a thing for the duration. From what the Trello roadmap cards are showing, it looks like the story mode will be added in as an optional content line rather than the only way to play.
The game as it exists now has story and sandbox elements together. I can't see any reason they'd separate them.
There a few vague references to 'story mode' in the roadmap but it may not mean what you think and even so, the same point applies. Even in sandbox mode the terraformer could be used to circumvent progression mechanics in a way they might not like. There could be caverns with shinies which are meant to be difficult to reach, but wouldn't be with a terraformer.
@AlphaBlueArx - this is how to level a mountaintop with habitat modules, and with a minimum of titanium, (I doubt I would use a full standing cabinet in the creative section of this video): Demolishing terrain without the terraformer
@AlphaBlueArx - this is how to level a mountaintop with habitat modules, and with a minimum of titanium, (I doubt I would use a full standing cabinet in the creative section of this video): Demolishing terrain without the terraformer
I see...Though the fact remains that it wouldn't be very indicate for a precise job ^^
Good... i disliked this tool since i was presented to it... also, people obviously just use them to make dicks out of coral or rock formations.... hate this tool, i am all for terraforming, but they should tackle it differently... like having to literally build it (like you would a bioreactor or a nuclear reactor) at the area you want to terraform, and then be very limited in the ways you CAN actually terraform - aka no vacuuming the ocean floor to create complete void zones and no more dick creation options.
you should only be able to terraform actual ground texture to a different biome - not be able to restructure the area completely - with rock formations, tunnels, sand crevices, caverns, etc.
@AlphaBlueArx - this is how to level a mountaintop with habitat modules, and with a minimum of titanium, (I doubt I would use a full standing cabinet in the creative section of this video): Demolishing terrain without the terraformer
I see...Though the fact remains that it wouldn't be very indicate for a precise job ^^
oh god no, not precise at all..... or perhaps very precise, but also rather limited in options... (I can't get that sort of straight edge with the terraformer.....)
Good... i disliked this tool since i was presented to it... also, people obviously just use them to make dicks out of coral or rock formations.... hate this tool, i am all for terraforming, but they should tackle it differently... like having to literally build it (like you would a bioreactor or a nuclear reactor) at the area you want to terraform, and then be very limited in the ways you CAN actually terraform - aka no vacuuming the ocean floor to create complete void zones and no more dick creation options.
you should only be able to terraform actual ground texture to a different biome - not be able to restructure the area completely - with rock formations, tunnels, sand crevices, caverns, etc.
that I kinda agree with and like...... but I maintain that you should still be able to extrude a rough 'platform' out of the side of an existing slope, so the legs of your foundation don't vanish..... (and I think making platforms near the surface for better solar - what it was made for......)
not really big fan of removing though I kinda can see reasons... its been proposed but hopefully devs retain tool in game, like have option which is by default off to include tool into recipe list.
problems of game becoming heavy: users with powerful computers wont notice thing whether or not tool is present
cheating: its single player so up to players choice
dick formations: again its single player
if multiplayer... maybe on that terraformer can't be present but it should be separate game mode altogether
I really hope UWE keeps it in. Whether its for technical reasons, or asthetic/gameplay reasons, those can all be fixed by tweaking, rather than ripping it out of the game.
To specifically address Charlie's Tweet:
- The game already has a base map of terrain. Always presume this is the case, even if that map changes due to an update.
- When a player makes a change, save that "delta" only. (Don't save the whole map!)
- Only allow a certain number of changes to be "saved". Beyond this, inform the player that previous terrain changes may be lost if they continue. Even at 10000 changes (which 99% of players will never reach), you would never exceed 200KB of save game data related to terrain changes.
-
To further limit its use, implement one or more of the following:
- Limit changes to a certain depth (~20m?) below/above the (original) sea floor
- Consume another resource (e.g. titanium) when creating and/or destroying terrain
- Require building a (very expensive) effector which allows the player to modify terrain in a particular area. Effectors could use special tech that only allows a limited number (5-10) of them to exist at a time. If this effector is removed, the terrain changes go away.
- Prohibit terraforming in certain special zones, such as the Aurora, etc.
Comments
That said, I found the tweet by Charlie Cleveland regarding the terraformer, and after reading it, I can understand the reasoning for removing it. It would seem that its use causes perfomance and save game issues that are a problem even for the PC and not just the XB1. Though I would be sad to see it go completely, if it needs to go for real performance reasons (size of the saved game for steam users being the most valid reason I can accept... you should never cut features out of a PC game so that it can fit on a console IMO), then it needs to go.
On the other hand, maybe there is some middle ground that might leave it in the game, but cause its impact on memory and game progression to be much less. My thinking here would be to adjust its function so that instead of wholesale scooping and depositing of terrain like a magic backhoe, it functions much more like the raise / lower terrain tools from the older sim-city games, where it only moves the terrain, and even then, only to a certain degree. This would preserve the ability make small adjustments to the terrain to fit base pieces while at the same time eliminating the ability to completely destroy terrain or build wholly new features. I would hope that this would also significantly decrease the memory footprint because the save file wouldn't have to keep track of new voxels, instead only having to keep track of where the old ones have been moved to.
But I can see how people making entire new islands might be problematic... I don't think that was intended.
nah - you empty your inventory of titanium, and place all the foundations you can, then you build rooms, deconstruct them, and build them elsewhere on the same foundations - rinse and repeat to level a whole mountain top, the only limiting factor is how low you can place your first foundation
I've also always thought it a bit at odds with the game's theme. They've indicated the story will be Avatar'esque, and us swimming about ripping up the landscape to suit our every whim doesn't gel with that. It gels more with the original terraforming mission we were on.
Think about the future.
It's single-player now. The devs haven't promised but also haven't ruled out multi-player and are keenly aware that many want it for Subnautica.
It's a sandbox now. The plan is for a story-driven game and the terraformer could be a major problem there. For example, there could be caves deep below the sea floor which we're meant to make our way to. There could be story-gated obstacles. Advanced tech we need to acquire/research/develop and use. Big nasty fishes we need to get around. And a terraformer could just bypass it all.
Sandbox mode will probably be a thing for the duration. From what the Trello roadmap cards are showing, it looks like the story mode will be added in as an optional content line rather than the only way to play.
The game as it exists now has story and sandbox elements together. I can't see any reason they'd separate them.
There a few vague references to 'story mode' in the roadmap but it may not mean what you think and even so, the same point applies. Even in sandbox mode the terraformer could be used to circumvent progression mechanics in a way they might not like. There could be caverns with shinies which are meant to be difficult to reach, but wouldn't be with a terraformer.
Demolishing terrain without the terraformer
I see...Though the fact remains that it wouldn't be very indicate for a precise job ^^
you should only be able to terraform actual ground texture to a different biome - not be able to restructure the area completely - with rock formations, tunnels, sand crevices, caverns, etc.
oh god no, not precise at all..... or perhaps very precise, but also rather limited in options... (I can't get that sort of straight edge with the terraformer.....)
that I kinda agree with and like...... but I maintain that you should still be able to extrude a rough 'platform' out of the side of an existing slope, so the legs of your foundation don't vanish..... (and I think making platforms near the surface for better solar - what it was made for......)
problems of game becoming heavy: users with powerful computers wont notice thing whether or not tool is present
cheating: its single player so up to players choice
dick formations: again its single player
if multiplayer... maybe on that terraformer can't be present but it should be separate game mode altogether
To specifically address Charlie's Tweet:
- The game already has a base map of terrain. Always presume this is the case, even if that map changes due to an update.
- When a player makes a change, save that "delta" only. (Don't save the whole map!)
- Only allow a certain number of changes to be "saved". Beyond this, inform the player that previous terrain changes may be lost if they continue. Even at 10000 changes (which 99% of players will never reach), you would never exceed 200KB of save game data related to terrain changes.
-
To further limit its use, implement one or more of the following:
- Limit changes to a certain depth (~20m?) below/above the (original) sea floor
- Consume another resource (e.g. titanium) when creating and/or destroying terrain
- Require building a (very expensive) effector which allows the player to modify terrain in a particular area. Effectors could use special tech that only allows a limited number (5-10) of them to exist at a time. If this effector is removed, the terrain changes go away.
- Prohibit terraforming in certain special zones, such as the Aurora, etc.