Bootcamp Update - Natural Selection 2

245

Comments

  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    Congratrulations UWE. Now, instead of not beining able to play about 1/3 of the time from a) All of the servers are empty OR b) The ones that have players are completely full. Now, I get to not play at all. The only free servers are these stupid rookie ones I can't join. So let's not give a damn about the long term players like me. I get to wait longer to play if I even play at all or guess what? I uninstall and become yet another player who quit this game.

    Look, I totally understand the need to get players. And I understand the need to try to make the pain of learning this game less painful. But doing these rookie-only B.S is not the way to do it. Its needs to backed out.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    In NA and EU I am not seeing a problem joining not rookie only servers.
  • WoehlerWoehler Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188684Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Nordic wrote: »
    Woehler wrote: »
    Get an option to hide rookie only servers.
    And update the skill rating in the server browser to something more descriptive than just two red arrow down. How can I possible make an informed choise from that?

    There is double up arrows, one up arrow, an equal sign, a single down arrow, and a double down arrow. You are basically seeing that your hive skill is far above the average of every server.

    I know that. But it's still crap. at least make the arrows relative to your score so that I can see the difference between a server with 1000 avg. elo or 1800 avg. elo. I'll much rather play on the higher skilled server for both my own sake and for the sake of everyone else. Pub stomping is in no way fun after you've done it once.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2016
    Now we just need alien bots that know how to evolve to higher lifeforms :)

    I have found a few issues from spectating Rookie Only servers. Replacing (booting) an AI commander appears to remove that bot from the game, unbalancing the teams by two players sometimes, which ends up becoming a stomp (eg 2v4). This problem is exacerbated by the preference of marine team by new players.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    Woehler wrote: »
    I know that. But it's still crap. at least make the arrows relative to your score so that I can see the difference between a server with 1000 avg. elo or 1800 avg. elo. I'll much rather play on the higher skilled server for both my own sake and for the sake of everyone else. Pub stomping is in no way fun after you've done it once.
    I get what you mean. For anyone of high enough skill or low enough skill they become entirely meaningless. I have a hive score of ~1800 and almost all the servers are double down arrow all the time.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    dePARA wrote: »
    I dont understand why some people have problems with the rookie only servers.
    As far as i know rookies are not forced to play on them.
    So the only thing that has changed for normal servers is:
    - no rookie friendly tag(was useless anyway)
    - rookies cant go com there anymore (they got ejected right away anyway or getting harrased "reset please, we had a green com")

    So new players can join regular servers now, can learn some stuff there and can train this against there level on the rookie only servers.
    This will be advancing with the upcomig tutorial rework.
    On top of that vets can join rookie only servers to give some tips if they want.

    This change might be a little late, but i think its one of the best changes since ages.


    Nail on the head @dePARA I wish to thank your rational thinking and common sense approach to allot of these subjects :smiley:
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited January 2016
    It will get better once more of these rookies clear their green status and can join other servers, but i also COULD NOT find a server to join during prime hours. There were about 4 NA servers to play on and all packed full.

    I did join a rook server and spectate and it was quite enjoyable. I gave as much advice as I could w/ out giving away too much to either team and I could see that they were responding. I think most of them probably enjoyed it well enough until the late game... which is a whole different topic I hope I get time to bring up, as well as a few other observations I made. Bed time!

    Also, maybe it's not too late. I have seen lots of greens before this, and I'm pretty sure there's a pretty steady flow of em.

    NS2 has been on numerous top fps charts for years and so many reviews and comments i read on youtube, rock paper shotgun, etc. talk about how underrated the game is. Ppl will continue to see what the talk's about. If more people can catch on easier, more will stick, then maybe we see some growth.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited January 2016
    Yeah the last update screwed up the server browser...

    This update made it worse...

    Now some servers aren't showing up in the list, and updating (or refreshing) the list doesn't help...


  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Half the servers won't show up in the browser no matter how many times I update (or refresh) the list... So now there are servers I regularly play on (all of them favorited) that won't show in the list no matter what I do... So I can't play on them..

    To temporarily fix that, you can use the Steam interface instead. Just start up that "servers" list and filter for Natural Selection. Not ideal, but does show you ALL servers once more :)
  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    The hellarious basterds 7v7 server could make a shitton of money if selling reserved slots was a thing in ns2.

    Thanks to bootcamp, Basically the only non rookie eu server that has players most of the time. Its usually full, and everybody waiting in queue instead of trying to populate another server. (my guess)


    but ppl cant stay <lvl 3 forever... so it can only get better.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Half the servers won't show up in the browser no matter how many times I update (or refresh) the list... So now there are servers I regularly play on (all of them favorited) that won't show in the list no matter what I do... So I can't play on them..

    To temporarily fix that, you can use the Steam interface instead. Just start up that "servers" list and filter for Natural Selection. Not ideal, but does show you ALL servers once more :)

    Thanks... I realized that after my initial rant post lol.

    Not sure what the problem could be. I checked it again and it's not even the same servers.. Like earlier IBIS wouldn't show up but now it is, whereas DMD#1 showed up earlier and I can't see it now.

    Still they need to fix the things they did to the server browser. It was fine back before the PDT started working on things again.
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Koruyo wrote: »
    The hellarious basterds 7v7 server could make a shitton of money if selling reserved slots was a thing in ns2.

    I was actually thinking of asking Hell if he could sell me a reserved slot the other day. Haha!
  • ForlornHopeForlornHope Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18675Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited January 2016
    2cough wrote: »
    It will get better once more of these rookies clear their green status and can join other servers, but i also COULD NOT find a server to join during prime hours. There were about 4 NA servers to play on and all packed full.

    I believe they are looking into on-demand servers that will switch on in the appropriate area in the world if needed. Hopefully, this wont be a problem for too much longer.

  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Nordic wrote: »
    The issue of not knowing how to use bilebomb, or what it even does, should be resolved with the tutorials that @BeigeAlert is working on. Even still, rookies do not need veterans. Let them play the game at their own pace and join the regular servers if they want to, or when they reach level 3. I see no issues here worth mentioning.

    It's not an issue in itself. Just a predictable phenomenon. Isolation is not bad a all. The new players can 'discover' the game, wander in the maps etc... Some useful first step.

    But level 3 is still young to my opinion, to open the pandora box. And above all, i'm sure 99.99% of them will rely on what they see on this "bootcamp" sessions. It will be more or less, killing stuff... any stuff they can kill. It's just using what they already know (a FPS shooter in space) and not inviting them to learn something else.

    In this regard i can understand what @_INTER_ said. Yes they won't be total rookies when they will be able to join non green servers. But the gap is still huge in a level 3 versus +80 encounter (I don't even know my level, but you get the point). It will only postpone the "Stomp syndrome". Not bad for a start but not quite there yet.

    If they play together and only together it will be somewhat ok. But it won't happen, we all know that. They will click on "Rapist Server" sooner or later and expose themselves to the same things/problems. There lies the need for a course.

    Maybe there's some room for an intermediate game mode. Like forcing them to accomplish something in time. Like a race. Each check points give more time. It will change priorities in their minds. But it's completely hypothetical.


    PS: Only rely on what is available. The tutorials aren't. I got no information on when they will be available. So i don't include it in the process for now. 1 today is better than 2 tomorrows.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    If we're getting per lifeform tutorials as I hope, why not restrict playing on non-rookie servers until all lifeform tutorials are complete.

    Also would like a solo-cap tutorial, shotgun squad positioning tutorials, checking corners turorial, in the equivalence of the lifeform tutorials, basically.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    So I am the only one thinking this "rookie only" mode is a game-breaker for non-rookie players?

    I spent over 2 hours last night not being able to play because all I saw on my server browser was a handful (that's right more than 5 ever) of U.S, vanilla servers that were not full. And at the same time 10 or more available rookie-only servers that I could no longer play on. I am not supposed to get pissed at this? It was hard enough getting on a server before this awful idea. Now I can't get on at all. Also, I tried to get a screen shot but to prove what I was seeing but NS2 won't paste it to clipboard (I just get a blank image).

    Oh, and the "Play Now" button? All that did for 2 hours was put on either a non-vanilla server or a European one where I got 200+ ping. FAIL here too.

    Now, let's talk about the idea of spectator only mode for a non-rookie for a second. Whenever I had played on a server with mostly rookies, I would either comm or mentor over voice chat to them. I tried to help them. But at the same time "I STILL PLAYED THE GAME!". Now you expect me to join these servers and play "teacher" without getting any enjoyment out of it myself? Come on. You can't be serious.

    Don't think I am pissed because now I can't gank newbies all night long. I always tried to find "=" matched servers when I could. But now I don't get to play at all unless I want to sit around for 2 hours like last night hitting the Update button. I have been playing for over 281 builds (include beta) and NEVER have I seen an idea so bad. BACK THIS OUT or you can kiss another good chunk of your player base good-bye.
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    Sounds like blind leading the blind to me. Nobody will want to just spectate.

    Instead, why not just give non-rookie players on these rookie servers a huge handicap, and disallow them from jumping in the chair? That way experienced players that actually want to mentor new players can, but without the ability to stomp.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    MrChoke wrote: »
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.

    Try to use Play Now, turns the 10 minutes into 5 seconds ;)
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    MrChoke wrote: »
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.

    Try to use Play Now, turns the 10 minutes into 5 seconds ;)

    Except that (from my experience) it will rarely put you on a server you'd willingly join... So you have to back out and hit play now again to repeat the process until finally you might get lucky enough to get a server you want to play on...

    It would more likely turn the 10 minutes into 20. lol
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    @MrChoke I agree, if it weren't for gathers I probably wouldn't have been able to play last night until late... But it was one night and these players will be joining normal servers more and more as time goes. Too early to be up in arms about it. I really think it can help stabilize player numbers, so in the long term, it's a good move.

    Also, speccing nubs is super fun in my opinion. Like watching puppies play. Good for when you are eating or, in my case, playing guitar, or anything that you wouldn't be able to do in a real game while still getting a little dose of ns2 til you're ready to find your own game. It's mindless. If it's gonna raise your blood pressure, don't join. Also, most community servers offer reserved slots. No more waiting.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    MrChoke wrote: »
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.

    Try to use Play Now, turns the 10 minutes into 5 seconds ;)

    Except that (from my experience) it will rarely put you on a server you'd willingly join... So you have to back out and hit play now again to repeat the process until finally you might get lucky enough to get a server you want to play on...

    It would more likely turn the 10 minutes into 20. lol

    Can you describe what is wrong with the servers play now puts you on? Is there a better one available? If it's something we can codify we could improve the algorithm.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    MrChoke wrote: »
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.

    Try to use Play Now, turns the 10 minutes into 5 seconds ;)

    Apparently you didn't read all of my post. "Play now" doesn't solve this problem. I try Play Now and I get a) A server not running vanilla NS2 or b) A European 200+ ping server not worth playing on.

  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    ns2 has a very unique server browser experience compared to other games...

    May or may not be total exaggeration:

    We decide where you play, what you play, and who you play with.

    First, you search a none rookie server that has enough players in your region with pings <150 (we cant afford preference for a specific server, max. playercount, specific mods, maps - not enough players)

    You try to join that server, the server is full, after 15min waiting you just hit the play now button until you end up on a server you decide is not as horrible to play on as spending another second in the serverbrowser.
    Now you usually have no control over what side you pick. Join aliens 3 times in a row, too bad - get shuffled to marines.
    Wanna play with friends in the same team? Let me shuffle that for you!

    Then there is this sandbox pregame, the actual pregame until finally a round starts.
    Oh and just to make it even more fun, have servers with reserved slots, where more players can join than are allowed to play.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    MrChoke wrote: »
    Just tried to play today. I couldn't again. This time I only waited about 20 minutes while I see 10 servers I can't join and ZERO ones I could. Next time I'll wait 10 minutes. Then I'll uninstall. Good job UWE. Way to go.

    I am not denying that you are having issues, but I am not seeing these issues in the NA. I will show you a screenshot from my server browser.
    This is from 5:10 pm PST from the west coast.
    np8tWXr.jpg
    6:03 pm PST
    Sk00YBf.jpg
    As you can see I have servers I can join. As the night goes on, I hope to update this thread with a screenshot from every hour.

    You mentioned you had difficulty taking a screenshot. There is an easy way. Steam has a the F12 key defaulted to take screenshots. So while in game press F12 and it will take a screenshot for you.
    Another method would be to press PrintScreen button, and then open MS paint and paste it there. This is not as easy but equally effective.

    @MrChoke and @MoFo , you have a real opportunity here to help the developers. Moultano has asked you a very important question.
    moultano wrote: »
    Can you describe what is wrong with the servers play now puts you on? Is there a better one available? If it's something we can codify we could improve the algorithm.

    Mrchoke said:
    a) A server not running vanilla NS2
    b) A European 200+ ping server not worth playing on.

    By not vanilla server do you mean it put you on a server with seigemod, faded mod, or other gameplay mod? Or by not vanilla do you mean something like ns2+ and shine are installed.


    Racer1 wrote: »
    Sounds like blind leading the blind to me. Nobody will want to just spectate.
    Rookies are perfectly fine playing with just other rookies. They do not need veteran players to lead them. I will keep posting these videos everytime someone makes a claim like this.
    These guys have never played ns2.

    These guys had some minor practice before hand but are total rookies.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Honestly the only reason I see people complaining is because of the fact that there are servers they can't play on in their server browser... I'm not sure of the numbers but there doesn't look to be any LESS active servers on the "normal" level, and if there are, it's because people aren't joining and seeding the empty ones.

    DMD, TGNS, even TF, all are usually quite full, and people moan about this all the time. The issue now is that there's a few "unfull" servers with rookies in them that are showing up.

    Two reasons present themselves on how this is UWE's fault:
    1. People can't filter out the rookie only servers.
    2. The Play now button isn't really working as intended (sometimes).

    The rest of the problem is the communities for not starting up new servers when the only ones left are full.

    Yeah, it sucks to seed. But we've opted for a Community-based server structure, rather than a centrally controlled matchmaking system. Community servers don't autopopulate like a matchmaking system would.

    If the issue is that there's no more half-full servers with rookies on them that vets can join immediately, then the patch is working as fucking intended and this is a good thing!

    So there's three things YOU can do when you don't immediately find a server to play on:
    1. Bitch, Cry, and Uninstall
    2. Sit around waiting for a slot since you don't support a community enough to buy into a reserved slot (or are unable to come up with the means, been there and it sucks, sorry)
    3. Join a server that's empty and watch as the rest of the people in your predicament join up.

    There's also 4 & 5:
    4. Use the Play now button (and help Moultano figure out if it's broken)
    5. Host your own server and seed it (but the end result will be the same as #3)
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    Tactical Freedom and Tactical Gamer both have pathways to free reserved slots. The names are similar, but they are not ran by the same admins.

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