Friendly fire ? Doesn't the NS universe already have something about Friendly Fire?
" note on "Friendly Fire": the phenomena of "friendly fire" (weapons damaging one's own teammates) has been circumvented in the 22nd century, by the use of nano-triggers and nano-weaponry. Currently the term "FriendlyFire" refers to this system. Shrapnel, bullets, and blast particles are split-second destabilized before striking any Frontiersmen, fragmenting harmlessly against their armor. In rare cases nano-gridlock has been known to interfere with this protection for the duration of a battle. Another strange gap in the FriendlyFire system: a fired weapon still injures the person who activated it. This is only a danger with grenades and mines … but is very important to note." - From NS manual.
Think about it..this is how the Developers want the game to work like. Stop striving for realism...in something like NS, realism ruins the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--freeo+Jan 12 2003, 01:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (freeo @ Jan 12 2003, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--coil+Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Grenades were increased in power because the siege was decreased in effectiveness, now requiring a spotter. A more dangerous GL means that marines are able to take on fortified areas without having to set up a siege - it offers them a new tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm... i didn't really think about that. i guess the damage increase isn't so bad afterall, considering the siege has been nerfed.
however, i think the grenades should be made a little easier to see. this dark greyish 1 centimeter bottle is really difficult to spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would you like each individual grenade to come with a inflatable neon lighted Sign Post? Saying "This is a grenade. Turn around and run!"? The size of them are realistic. Leave 'em <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, my main concern is the base defence grenade spamm. WIth the new grenades a base having its entrances getting spammed constantly by grens is basically untakeable for aliens, no matter how many hives they have.
Either the reload time in the armory has to be slower for the grenade launcher or picking up armmo for it has to cost resources too. Else the entire 1.04 late game marine base defence will be lame grenade spamm.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think about it..this is how the Developers want the game to work like. Stop striving for realism...in something like NS, realism ruins the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not realism we want... we just want no silly grenade spamm in every base entrance. If there was friendly fire marines had to be more carefull with their lame spamm. Q3F is possibly tho most unrealistic fps I know (you use grenades to jump across the map etc), but friendly fire is used with 100% because it makes the game so much more enjoyable.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chack+Jan 12 2003, 01:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chack @ Jan 12 2003, 01:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, my main concern is the base defence grenade spamm. WIth the new grenades a base having its entrances getting spammed constantly by grens is basically untakeable for aliens, no matter how many hives they have.
Either the reload time in the armory has to be slower for the grenade launcher or picking up armmo for it has to cost resources too. Else the entire 1.04 late game marine base defence will be lame grenade spamm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's a valid tactic...considering the Lerks can get their lame **** fart gas (Is it called Genocide?). If grenades should cost Additional resources to re-arm, then i think Lerk's Genocide should be limited as well.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Friendly fire is a tournament mode only thing. And it's 1/3 to your allies, full damage to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Friendly fire on yourself from your grenades is always on - and its 1/3 (30pts of damage - less than half a skulk bite), at least in 1.03. Prior to 1.03 it was indeed full damage.
Gotto try out 1.04d - someone is spreading a rumor the armory no longer reloads your weapon for you. That would cut down grenade spam by about 70% or so ... instead of about 3 grenades per 2 seconds, it will be 4 grenades every 10 seconds, about.
I remember someone saying something about how certain posters only play certain sides.. In posts like these its very easy to tell who plays marines and who doesn't.
When a n00b runs up and "steals" a GL, because it's a "bigger gun" I try to follow him, pick it up, bring it back to base, and use it myself.no point in wasting 33 resources.
To those saying spamming is cheap--it isn't. It costs at least an Armory where you're at, an upgraded armory somewhere on the map, and a GL. Last I checked that isn't very cheap.
As to the definition of cheap you meant, it's a valid tactic, there's a reason why its there. No rambo alien should be able to completely crush all of the marines with one attack (cough cough acid rocket). You have to be willing to risk dying if you wanna go rambo. The same is true for marines. And when a fade/lerk come in to have lunch, the GL is the final solution. Mines will blow yourself up and get bile-bombed before they become useful, leaving GL the only gun that'll penetrate umbra effectively. This might have been changed due to the new damage transfer rate (3/4 is it now?)
Now, about the "spawn camping grenade spammers" Good for them! They're buying time for their team to get out of the final throws of dying! More power to them. If you can't get your team to work together, you deserve every single grenade death you suffer.
Fades aren' the only class the aliens have (I tend to go kamikaze skulk, but I"m the only one on my team, so I don't get as many "endgame" kills because I'm the one who messed up the GL'ers.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is the GL by its nature a skill less spam weapon, or is it possible to become skilled in its use? I wish the GL was like the demomans pipelauncher in TFC, it is a skillfull weapon but similarly not overpowered.
Sometimes i think the grens lauched by the GL are very unpredictable (maybe thats just me).
In the right hands the GL should be the most powerful marine weapon in the game as it costs the most. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is eminently possible to become skilled in its use, problem is direct hits don't do enough damage, you hit with 3/4 shots and you still don't drop a carapice fade!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the record - grenades DO explode on contact with any alien organism - player or building. So yes, if your aim is good, you'll be rewarded for it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read Kitsune's post you'll be rewarded with a stunning 90 damage upgraded 117 damage fully upgraded.
Oh wow! fully upgraded you cant kill a cara fade <b>with a full clip from the 'BEST' gun in the game</b>
Infact with a full clip you cant even kill a lone offy chamber the one good thing it has is splash damage against WOL and the way you can bounce it around corners into a WOL.
I wish people would acctually work out the facts and figures with controlled tests befor they winge.
<!--QuoteBegin--BlueGhost+Jan 12 2003, 03:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueGhost @ Jan 12 2003, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the record - grenades DO explode on contact with any alien organism - player or building. So yes, if your aim is good, you'll be rewarded for it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read Kitsune's post you'll be rewarded with a stunning 90 damage upgraded 117 damage fully upgraded.
Oh wow! fully upgraded you cant kill a cara fade <b>with a full clip from the 'BEST' gun in the game</b>
Infact with a full clip you cant even kill a lone offy chamber the one good thing it has is splash damage against WOL and the way you can bounce it around corners into a WOL.
I wish people would acctually work out the facts and figures with controlled tests befor they winge.
Add the fact that a Marine with a GL is almost defenceless against a one-on-one encounter with a skulk; i had HA and a GL last night assaulting an Alien Outpost, a Skulk runs up close to me and i couldn't do sh!t; attempted to weld him but he was a pretty nifty skulker <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> eventually i had to drop the GL and pick up a team mate's Shotty to finish him off <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Effective use of a GL requires quite a bit of resources (since it's at the end of the Tech Tree) and team work (need escorts from team mates to cover your ****).
Not that this hasn't been said before...just felt like typing <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Jan 12 2003, 08:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Jan 12 2003, 08:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BG- Grenades [should] do double damage to Structures, just like xeno and bile bombs should..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean it's bugged? Cus they are supposed to and last time I saw, they did.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited January 2003
I never claimed the grenade launcher was the best weapon in the game.
It is designed to kill structures, and to attack around corners/into vents. It is not designed to kill aliens; that is what the HMG is for. The only alien it *should* kill is a lerk in umbra; and 1 clip is certainly sufficient to do that.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Speed 2 Dave+Jan 12 2003, 03:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Jan 12 2003, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To those saying spamming is cheap--it isn't. It costs at least an Armory where you're at, an upgraded armory somewhere on the map, and a GL. Last I checked that isn't very cheap. leaving GL the only gun that'll penetrate umbra effectively. This might have been changed due to the new damage transfer rate (3/4 is it now?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cheap means "no skill" in this context, not cost of buying.
Oh well, it's a moot point - in 1.04d, the armory no longer reloads your gun!
Good change.
The umbra has changed from blocking 7/8 shots to 5/6 - about 25% more damage will go through the umbra. Clearly noticable - I just killed lerk with a HMG in about 2-3 seconds.
Lets see, the umbra will let through about 3-4 HMG shots every second (20 ROF). With lvl 3 carap, each shot will do 5 health damage, so 12 hits will kill the Lerk. Yea, about 3-4 seconds with a HMG will kill a Lerk. At point blank, of course.
LMG is worse - 20 LMG shots to kill the lerk, fires 10 shots, so about 10-15 seconds of LMG fire to kill a Lerk.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lets see, the umbra will let through about 3-4 HMG shots every second (20 ROF). With lvl 3 carap, each shot will do 5 health damage, so 12 hits will kill the Lerk. Yea, about 3-4 seconds with a HMG will kill a Lerk. At point blank, of course.
LMG is worse - 20 LMG shots to kill the lerk, fires 10 shots, so about 10-15 seconds of LMG fire to kill a Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your assuming we would be stupid enough to hold still and let you fire away at us without dodging around the umbra. Thats the most beutifull thing about lerks and one of the reasons i play them so often, when flapping and dodging around an area fulla marines we are a b!tch to hit.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cpl.Davis+Jan 11 2003, 11:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Jan 11 2003, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well The aliens do have Onos which is just a big tank. And the grenade launcher did used to be stonger as it is now WITH a 6 round clip.
Its where it should be now so it can counter the ever famous wall of lame and gorges putting up turrets to block evevaotrs from working etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The aliens require three hives to get Onos, the Marines have no geographic restrictions for the GL.
"Where it should be now" is 1.03 - it already does a shitload of damage to WOLs, etc. 1.04 is overkill.
Can we call it the portal siege cannon now? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--+----></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( @ --)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never claimed the grenade launcher was the best weapon in the game.
It is designed to kill structures, and to attack around corners/into vents. It is not designed to kill aliens; that is what the HMG is for. The only alien it *should* kill is a lerk in umbra; and 1 clip is certainly sufficient to do that.
[/QUOTE]
Are you serious, or is this some kinda twisted vindictive joke.... Grenade Launchers, by nature, are meant to cause massive surrounding damage to structures and to aliens alike. How can you honestly say that the GL "isn't meant to be used against aliens". That is just being naive.
When I pick up the GL, I'm using it as an OFFENSIVE weapon to the best it can be used - especially if a group of fades are coming my way.
Thanks, but no thanks - get your ideas straight before posting nonsense like this.
sigh.. that's really a bad point to make there.. He doesn't say you shouldn't shoot at aliens.. The GL was mean to be the unit-weedwhackers.. Meant to mow down the structures so that the HMGs can plod on towards a hive.
I've said this before and I'll say it again... the grenades are fine. They're the only real 'area effect' weapon that the marines have. Aliens have acid rocket, bile bomb, and spore cloud. Even unskilled folk can rack up the kills with attacks like these, which have splash damage and require less aiming.
With the marines, it's all about aiming. The only marine weapons with a larger cone of fire are the shotgun and HMG, and they have their limitations. The grenade is the only man-portable marine weapon with splash damage. They need it, so live with it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for cost... one grenade launcher costs the same as an entire Lerk. Pair the GL guy with an HA and you're already over the cost of a Fade. Even with that setup, the marine is not as effective as his alien counterparts alone - he needs his team to cover him. If he dies, the HA is a waste. If nobody picks up the GL, it vanishes.. and there goes a nice chunk of res. And dying is very easy, as it takes a combined effort to truly heal a marine - your commander dropping medpacks, and a teammate welding you, whereas aliens only have to drop off at a def chamber or hive and whammo, they're back up at full.
<!--QuoteBegin--Akira+Jan 12 2003, 12:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Akira @ Jan 12 2003, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Would you like each individual grenade to come with a inflatable neon lighted Sign Post? Saying "This is a grenade. Turn around and run!"? The size of them are realistic. Leave 'em <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ak.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> so leave the size, but add a band of yellow/red around it.
<!--QuoteBegin--freeo+Jan 12 2003, 07:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (freeo @ Jan 12 2003, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--coil+Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 12 2003, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Grenades were increased in power because the siege was decreased in effectiveness, now requiring a spotter. A more dangerous GL means that marines are able to take on fortified areas without having to set up a siege - it offers them a new tactic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm... i didn't really think about that. i guess the damage increase isn't so bad afterall, considering the siege has been nerfed.
however, i think the grenades should be made a little easier to see. this dark greyish 1 centimeter bottle is really difficult to spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I saw someone comparing then to Tic Tacs with the detonation power equalling C4 bricks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That was patch 1.04b.
Why not make grenades glow red-hot? Since laser "tripwires" cry out in defiance "Come and get me you wussy good-for-nothing alien scum", with their unnatural red pencil beam, why not do it for the nade as well?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've said this before and I'll say it again... the grenades are fine. They're the only real 'area effect' weapon that the marines have. Aliens have acid rocket, bile bomb, and spore cloud. Even unskilled folk can rack up the kills with attacks like these, which have splash damage and require less aiming. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1 BIG difference: Both Acid Rocket and Bile Bomb do damage to the users. <b>Grenades don't do much if any damage to their users</b>. Spore cloud is only usable by the lerk, one of the weakest Alien's next to the skulk, takes 1 nade to kill em.
Sorry but when somone can survive firing 3 nades at their feet while a Fade whacks them more then 5 times with their claws and not die something is seriously **** up. Try firing 3 Bile Bombs at your feet and you'll be lucky if you have more then 1/5th your health left.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Put 8 def chambers behind your WOL and its a hellova job to kill it with a GL. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try actually using the GL sometime. You can take down 8 OCs and 8 DCs in about 30 seconds if your not spastic with your aim. Now, a Fade...a Fade (aka the uber l33t unkillable gods of NS.../laff) will take about 30 seconds to kill a single turret let alone an entire defensive wall.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you serious, or is this some kinda twisted vindictive joke.... Grenade Launchers, by nature, are meant to cause massive surrounding damage to structures and to aliens alike. How can you honestly say that the GL "isn't meant to be used against aliens". That is just being naive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about for a day, we make Bile Bomb do 200 damage against Marines, and double versus structures. Then you can come back and tell me nothing is wrong with it.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Grenades are supposed to do damage to their users. To my knowledge, they *do* do damage to the user, up until 1.04 which (I have not played but) people say lacks the self-damage component. I promise you that this is unintentional; when 1.04 is released, grenades will do damage to the grenadier.
They will not do damage to other teammates unless tournament mode (FF) is enabled.
Comments
" note on "Friendly Fire": the phenomena of "friendly fire" (weapons damaging one's own teammates) has been circumvented in the 22nd century, by the use of nano-triggers and nano-weaponry. Currently the term "FriendlyFire" refers to this system. Shrapnel, bullets, and blast particles are split-second destabilized before striking any Frontiersmen, fragmenting harmlessly against their armor. In rare cases nano-gridlock has been known to interfere with this protection for the duration of a battle. Another strange gap in the FriendlyFire system: a fired weapon still injures the person who activated it. This is only a danger with grenades and mines … but is very important to note." - From NS manual.
Think about it..this is how the Developers want the game to work like. Stop striving for realism...in something like NS, realism ruins the game.
hmm... i didn't really think about that. i guess the damage increase isn't so bad afterall, considering the siege has been nerfed.
however, i think the grenades should be made a little easier to see. this dark greyish 1 centimeter bottle is really difficult to spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you like each individual grenade to come with a inflatable neon lighted Sign Post? Saying "This is a grenade. Turn around and run!"?
The size of them are realistic. Leave 'em <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ak.
Either the reload time in the armory has to be slower for the grenade launcher or picking up armmo for it has to cost resources too. Else the entire 1.04 late game marine base defence will be lame grenade spamm.
It's not realism we want... we just want no silly grenade spamm in every base entrance. If there was friendly fire marines had to be more carefull with their lame spamm. Q3F is possibly tho most unrealistic fps I know (you use grenades to jump across the map etc), but friendly fire is used with 100% because it makes the game so much more enjoyable.
Either the reload time in the armory has to be slower for the grenade launcher or picking up armmo for it has to cost resources too. Else the entire 1.04 late game marine base defence will be lame grenade spamm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's a valid tactic...considering the Lerks can get their lame **** fart gas (Is it called Genocide?). If grenades should cost Additional resources to re-arm, then i think Lerk's Genocide should be limited as well.
Ak.
Errrm
Friendly fire is a tournament mode only thing. And it's 1/3 to your allies, full damage to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Friendly fire on yourself from your grenades is always on - and its 1/3 (30pts of damage - less than half a skulk bite), at least in 1.03. Prior to 1.03 it was indeed full damage.
Gotto try out 1.04d - someone is spreading a rumor the armory no longer reloads your weapon for you. That would cut down grenade spam by about 70% or so ... instead of about 3 grenades per 2 seconds, it will be 4 grenades every 10 seconds, about.
When a n00b runs up and "steals" a GL, because it's a "bigger gun" I try to follow him, pick it up, bring it back to base, and use it myself.no point in wasting 33 resources.
To those saying spamming is cheap--it isn't. It costs at least an Armory where you're at, an upgraded armory somewhere on the map, and a GL. Last I checked that isn't very cheap.
As to the definition of cheap you meant, it's a valid tactic, there's a reason why its there. No rambo alien should be able to completely crush all of the marines with one attack (cough cough acid rocket). You have to be willing to risk dying if you wanna go rambo. The same is true for marines. And when a fade/lerk come in to have lunch, the GL is the final solution. Mines will blow yourself up and get bile-bombed before they become useful, leaving GL the only gun that'll penetrate umbra effectively. This might have been changed due to the new damage transfer rate (3/4 is it now?)
Now, about the "spawn camping grenade spammers" Good for them! They're buying time for their team to get out of the final throws of dying! More power to them. If you can't get your team to work together, you deserve every single grenade death you suffer.
Fades aren' the only class the aliens have (I tend to go kamikaze skulk, but I"m the only one on my team, so I don't get as many "endgame" kills because I'm the one who messed up the GL'ers.)
Sometimes i think the grens lauched by the GL are very unpredictable (maybe thats just me).
In the right hands the GL should be the most powerful marine weapon in the game as it costs the most. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is eminently possible to become skilled in its use, problem is direct hits don't do enough damage, you hit with 3/4 shots and you still don't drop a carapice fade!
BlueGhost
Read Kitsune's post you'll be rewarded with a stunning 90 damage upgraded 117 damage fully upgraded.
Oh wow! fully upgraded you cant kill a cara fade <b>with a full clip from the 'BEST' gun in the game</b>
Infact with a full clip you cant even kill a lone offy chamber the one good thing it has is splash damage against WOL and the way you can bounce it around corners into a WOL.
I wish people would acctually work out the facts and figures with controlled tests befor they winge.
BlueGhost
Read Kitsune's post you'll be rewarded with a stunning 90 damage upgraded 117 damage fully upgraded.
Oh wow! fully upgraded you cant kill a cara fade <b>with a full clip from the 'BEST' gun in the game</b>
Infact with a full clip you cant even kill a lone offy chamber the one good thing it has is splash damage against WOL and the way you can bounce it around corners into a WOL.
I wish people would acctually work out the facts and figures with controlled tests befor they winge.
BlueGhost<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen Brother!
Add the fact that a Marine with a GL is almost defenceless against a one-on-one encounter with a skulk; i had HA and a GL last night assaulting an Alien Outpost, a Skulk runs up close to me and i couldn't do sh!t; attempted to weld him but he was a pretty nifty skulker <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> eventually i had to drop the GL and pick up a team mate's Shotty to finish him off <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Effective use of a GL requires quite a bit of resources (since it's at the end of the Tech Tree) and team work (need escorts from team mates to cover your ****).
Not that this hasn't been said before...just felt like typing <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ak.
You mean it's bugged?
Cus they are supposed to and last time I saw, they did.
It is designed to kill structures, and to attack around corners/into vents. It is not designed to kill aliens; that is what the HMG is for. The only alien it *should* kill is a lerk in umbra; and 1 clip is certainly sufficient to do that.
To those saying spamming is cheap--it isn't. It costs at least an Armory where you're at, an upgraded armory somewhere on the map, and a GL. Last I checked that isn't very cheap.
leaving GL the only gun that'll penetrate umbra effectively. This might have been changed due to the new damage transfer rate (3/4 is it now?)
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Cheap means "no skill" in this context, not cost of buying.
Oh well, it's a moot point - in 1.04d, the armory no longer reloads your gun!
Good change.
The umbra has changed from blocking 7/8 shots to 5/6 - about 25% more damage will go through the umbra. Clearly noticable - I just killed lerk with a HMG in about 2-3 seconds.
Lets see, the umbra will let through about 3-4 HMG shots every second (20 ROF). With lvl 3 carap, each shot will do 5 health damage, so 12 hits will kill the Lerk. Yea, about 3-4 seconds with a HMG will kill a Lerk. At point blank, of course.
LMG is worse - 20 LMG shots to kill the lerk, fires 10 shots, so about 10-15 seconds of LMG fire to kill a Lerk.
Lets see, the umbra will let through about 3-4 HMG shots every second (20 ROF). With lvl 3 carap, each shot will do 5 health damage, so 12 hits will kill the Lerk. Yea, about 3-4 seconds with a HMG will kill a Lerk. At point blank, of course.
LMG is worse - 20 LMG shots to kill the lerk, fires 10 shots, so about 10-15 seconds of LMG fire to kill a Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your assuming we would be stupid enough to hold still and let you fire away at us without dodging around the umbra. Thats the most beutifull thing about lerks and one of the reasons i play them so often, when flapping and dodging around an area fulla marines we are a b!tch to hit.
Its where it should be now so it can counter the ever famous wall of lame and gorges putting up turrets to block evevaotrs from working etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The aliens require three hives to get Onos, the Marines have no geographic restrictions for the GL.
"Where it should be now" is 1.03 - it already does a shitload of damage to WOLs, etc. 1.04 is overkill.
PS: I have not personaly played with it yet
It is designed to kill structures, and to attack around corners/into vents. It is not designed to kill aliens; that is what the HMG is for. The only alien it *should* kill is a lerk in umbra; and 1 clip is certainly sufficient to do that.
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Are you serious, or is this some kinda twisted vindictive joke.... Grenade Launchers, by nature, are meant to cause massive surrounding damage to structures and to aliens alike. How can you honestly say that the GL "isn't meant to be used against aliens". That is just being naive.
When I pick up the GL, I'm using it as an OFFENSIVE weapon to the best it can be used - especially if a group of fades are coming my way.
Thanks, but no thanks - get your ideas straight before posting nonsense like this.
-JKooL
Coil has all his facts straight, do you?
With the marines, it's all about aiming. The only marine weapons with a larger cone of fire are the shotgun and HMG, and they have their limitations. The grenade is the only man-portable marine weapon with splash damage. They need it, so live with it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for cost... one grenade launcher costs the same as an entire Lerk. Pair the GL guy with an HA and you're already over the cost of a Fade. Even with that setup, the marine is not as effective as his alien counterparts alone - he needs his team to cover him. If he dies, the HA is a waste. If nobody picks up the GL, it vanishes.. and there goes a nice chunk of res. And dying is very easy, as it takes a combined effort to truly heal a marine - your commander dropping medpacks, and a teammate welding you, whereas aliens only have to drop off at a def chamber or hive and whammo, they're back up at full.
It balances out. Really, it does.
BlueGhost
The size of them are realistic. Leave 'em <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ak.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so leave the size, but add a band of yellow/red around it.
hmm... i didn't really think about that. i guess the damage increase isn't so bad afterall, considering the siege has been nerfed.
however, i think the grenades should be made a little easier to see. this dark greyish 1 centimeter bottle is really difficult to spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw someone comparing then to Tic Tacs with the detonation power equalling C4 bricks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That was patch 1.04b.
Why not make grenades glow red-hot? Since laser "tripwires" cry out in defiance "Come and get me you wussy good-for-nothing alien scum", with their unnatural red pencil beam, why not do it for the nade as well?
The main uses are cleaning up Walls and hives, as well as keeping base clear.
150..200...I dont care, you usually either kill a fade in one blow or they escape all 4 of the grenades
I usually spamm a good 12 grenades before I kill anything with it...and sometimes I just kill myslef
1 BIG difference: Both Acid Rocket and Bile Bomb do damage to the users. <b>Grenades don't do much if any damage to their users</b>. Spore cloud is only usable by the lerk, one of the weakest Alien's next to the skulk, takes 1 nade to kill em.
Sorry but when somone can survive firing 3 nades at their feet while a Fade whacks them more then 5 times with their claws and not die something is seriously **** up. Try firing 3 Bile Bombs at your feet and you'll be lucky if you have more then 1/5th your health left.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Put 8 def chambers behind your WOL and its a hellova job to kill it with a GL.
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Try actually using the GL sometime. You can take down 8 OCs and 8 DCs in about 30 seconds if your not spastic with your aim. Now, a Fade...a Fade (aka the uber l33t unkillable gods of NS.../laff) will take about 30 seconds to kill a single turret let alone an entire defensive wall.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you serious, or is this some kinda twisted vindictive joke.... Grenade Launchers, by nature, are meant to cause massive surrounding damage to structures and to aliens alike. How can you honestly say that the GL "isn't meant to be used against aliens". That is just being naive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about for a day, we make Bile Bomb do 200 damage against Marines, and double versus structures. Then you can come back and tell me nothing is wrong with it.
They will not do damage to other teammates unless tournament mode (FF) is enabled.