Absolute Win Conditions

FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,477 Advanced user
Why were the win conditions changed from "kill all humans/kill all aliens" to "kill all commchairs/kill all hives"

For example: If the marines are in a commanding lead and go to rush a final hive, get base rushed and lose their only comm chair and arms lab somehow, why don't the 8 jetpack/shotgun marines have a chance to kill all the aliens to still win the game?
mattji104

Comments

  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    Cause of the (long) '1 hiding noob somewhere in a vent' endgame (which i always found hilarious).
    i assume, anyway
    grrrr im beast
    IronHorsecooliticLoki
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,247 Advanced user
    Yeah I missed the old NS1 mechanic that once the hive explodes, your health would slowly deteriorate until you died, I can't see that being an issue in NS2 as you cannot place crags in vents? :/
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  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 822 Advanced user
    CCTEE wrote: »
    Cause of the (long) '1 hiding noob somewhere in a vent' endgame (which i always found hilarious).
    i assume, anyway

    I've found it funny for a while to go Gorge and drop a defense chamber somewhere in the vents. Sorry about that :D
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  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,247 Advanced user
    _INTER_ wrote: »
    CCTEE wrote: »
    Cause of the (long) '1 hiding noob somewhere in a vent' endgame (which i always found hilarious).
    i assume, anyway

    I've found it funny for a while to go Gorge and drop a defense chamber somewhere in the vents. Sorry about that :D

    It created almost a mini-game experience, let the gorge hunt begin!
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

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  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,477 Advanced user
    Yea it was fantastic way more often than it was annoying. It was both for sure.

    But I did win games without a comm chair in NS1, and I see no reason that marines can't conplete their mission any way possible
    mattji104
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    Yeh, seemed in line with the whole 'struggle for survival' background of the game.
    grrrr im beast
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Ping of Death negated by Defensive Chamber of Doom :D

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  • FearlessJamesFearlessJames Join Date: 2015-12-09 Member: 209849Members Posts: 88 Fully active user
    edited December 2015
    That would be neat! It'd really put a twist on how the rounds are played! Plus,wasn't there something where once all Hives were killed,the Kharaa would slowly lose their HiveSight as the Hives were the source of their guidance or something? It'd be scary if you couldn't see your friends through walls or worse,see who needs help :worried: I also imagine the "Lifeform is under attack!" voice would be gone as well. (That thing really needs more audio cues,it's so cool!)

    But as someone who has never played NS1,would you be able to somehow remake a Hive/Comm chair and continue the game,or was it just whoever killed who wins?
    "Humans evolve within millions of years,but I.....evolve within seconds......"
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    If there was a gorge alive, and had already started building a hive, then, it was a tense race against time for the gorge to get the hive built before getting found by the marines.

    If she didn't have enough pres, or didn't start the hive in time, then you would have to wait until the aliens were all dead. This was supposed to happen fairly quickly, but of course, gorges would build DC's in vents and stuff, and then aliens would camp by them getting healed, while they waited for the marines.

    Depending on how far in advance the aliens knew they were going to lose, and how forward thinking they had been, you could get bases that would take a good ten or 15 minutes to take down.

    My memory seems to be a bit fuzzy, but if I remember correctly, comm chairs could only be dropped from the comm chair, so if the last one is destroyed, then the marines could not build another one.

    They were however unrestricted in their placement, so likewise, marines would create bases in vents etc, and hide out. While sometimes these situations produced comebacks, 99.9% of the time, it was just a fun end game onslaught. We knew who had won, but it was just a time for some insane battles, where people really did silly things, because it didn't matter.
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  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    Yeh, since aliens auto lost hp points they always needed a crag to hide out for awhile. Marines didnt and could just hide forever if i recall correctly. But being marines their possible hiding places where limited, except with jetpacks.

    That epic last gorge trying to build a hive was a really cool feature. More so since the whole (dead) alien team would see him in 3rd person (cam) and cheer him on.
    Good times! UWE kinda decided to remove all this sillyness because all fun also meant a way to troll. Fine line between the two.
    grrrr im beast
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 563 Advanced user
    I think this would be awesome - good cause it would create more of a "dramatic" ending like in NS1, am not saying lets do the same insane gorge forts that could happen -

    I remember on the map ns_ayumi (i think thats what it is called) you could gorge right behind the hive in a vent that had quite long vents to get into a bigger wider vent - as a gorge you can just drop things for fun - when the hive was killed you just sat in there living, picking of the marines that tried to get in - so marine commander would just build as many arcs as they could, and in 1 massive lag feast of a bang, everything would die. after they had spent a good 10+ minutes after the game had ended.

    There was once when a gorge got enough res up to drop the hive - they ran out and droped it without being seen - marines had no idea, got the hive built - all aliens respawned and went for marine base, didnt win the game, but was fun watching the marines crap a little.

    But doing things like this was always fun, off course in NS2 having to kill the last marines or aliens before the win, then it turns into a fun game of hide and seek :trollface:

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  • FearlessJamesFearlessJames Join Date: 2015-12-09 Member: 209849Members Posts: 88 Fully active user
    Huh,the first NS sounds pretty fun,I doubt people still play it though.........do they?
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Huh,the first NS sounds pretty fun,I doubt people still play it though.........do they?

    6 Servers, no players most of the time so... nope...

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  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,477 Advanced user
    I couldn't even read the rest of the posts before saying this:

    Gorges couldn't build hives in NS1, they just dropped them and waited 3 minutes.
    mattji104
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,477 Advanced user
    @FearlessJames it was so much more general fun in so many more ways
    mattji104
  • vartijavartija Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60193Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 99 Advanced user
    Gorges could heal the hives faster up right? Or am I just getting too old?
    Soul_Rider
  • ghostdlrghostdlr Join Date: 2015-07-02 Member: 205950Members Posts: 45 Fully active user
    edited December 2015
    I have the best solution for this problem .... keep reading .

    Max health of the remaining players should decrease by 1 % HP / second . This way , even if a gorge heals them, they will still die in the end .

    For a marine it will be 99 / 99 HP, 98/98 and so on until he dies.
  • SaltlickSaltlick Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177347Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 86 Advanced user
    Despite the potential for trolling, endgame player hunts sound fun.
  • ghostdlrghostdlr Join Date: 2015-07-02 Member: 205950Members Posts: 45 Fully active user
    If max health will decrease by 1 % each second , you will have 100 seconds to find everyone :D .
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 1,542 Advanced user
    ghostdlr wrote: »
    If max health will decrease by 1 % each second , you will have 100 seconds to find everyone :D .

    Actually no.
    100 -1% = 99
    99 - 1% = 99 - 0.9 = 99.1... and so on...

    ChubbChubbs ???

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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    ghostdlr wrote: »
    If max health will decrease by 1 % each second , you will have 100 seconds to find everyone :D .

    As already pointed out, if max health decreased by 1% each second, they'd never run out of life...
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  • ScatterScatter Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 635 Advanced user
    1% of maximum health each second. No need for the pedantry as the intent was clear.

    FrozenBenson
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 563 Advanced user
    Health decrease was put into NS1 to help with killing the Gorge forts - they even took away the healing - so no more healing.

    For this to work (even if it was put into the game) you would just not allow any healing.

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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Yeh but NS1 gorge forts were on a complete different scale.

    For the uninformed.. There was no commander. The gorge build everything. Also there was no separation of upgrade chambers and function chambers. Crag & shells were combined into one defense chamber.
    So it wasnt THAT uncommon to have a row of defensive chambers with on top a row of offensive chambers (read hydra 2.0) and in front another office chamber row.
    This Wall Of Lame was almost impossible to destroy with GL or sieges (arcs).

    It became less common in later versions of NS1, but it was still on a completely different scale then its in NS2.
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  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 515 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    _INTER_ wrote: »
    CCTEE wrote: »
    Cause of the (long) '1 hiding noob somewhere in a vent' endgame (which i always found hilarious).
    i assume, anyway

    I've found it funny for a while to go Gorge and drop a defense chamber somewhere in the vents. Sorry about that :D

    or 4 and hydras (or was it offensive chambers? I can't remember anymore)
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    _INTER_ wrote: »
    CCTEE wrote: »
    Cause of the (long) '1 hiding noob somewhere in a vent' endgame (which i always found hilarious).
    i assume, anyway

    I've found it funny for a while to go Gorge and drop a defense chamber somewhere in the vents. Sorry about that :D

    or 4 and hydras (or was it offensive chambers? I can't remember anymore)

    Offensive Chambers, the red ball of spikey doom :D

    Also before the "Area clearing" patch in NS, we could actually stack structures on top of each other. That is where the true "Walls of Lame" term comes from along with marine doorway entrances closed of by a pile of command stations in a last ditch effort to keep the aliens out, that armor/welding stack was quite effective at that!


    And while that was going on, I'd just go Gorge and mess up the entire map with unlimited OC/DC/MC/SC/Webs/Babblers and stuff :D You think 1 hour matches are long or perhaps even six days in Sanji? Childsplay, I heard there is still a match going on, which started in 2002!

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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Ow yes. Webs were not useless in NS1, unlike NS2.
    And indeed, there wasnt a true cap on structures like there is now.

    Only that the server started to behave... odd on certain structure numbers.
    Im sure you also made sensory chamber webs @kouji_san. Get a good network of those and marines could kiss their motion tracking goodbye.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Only that the server started to behave... odd on certain structure numbers.
    Im sure you also made sensory chamber webs @kouji_san. Get a good network of those and marines could kiss their motion tracking goodbye.

    No comments, talk to my solicitor :trollface:

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  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    Gorges could heal the hives while building if they were getting damaged, but it didn't actually build them faster - the 3 minute build time was static.

    You could still stack structures even in the last version of NS1, it was just a bit tricky. Also once they were hit by a siege or a grenade they would usually then sink down to the floor.

    There also was structure build limits for both teams, aliens were only allowed to build 8 of each structure type within a certain radius. Beyond that, no matter how many DCs you had in a stack a siege could always take it out eventually, as long as the commander kept scanning.
  • ScatterScatter Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 635 Advanced user
    Very basic mod doing what is requested. Kill their ability to respawn and all players as the victory condition instead of the chairs specifically. Damage ticks and sound on loss of command structure. Could probably end up a Shine plugin.
    FrozenCCTEESoul_Rider
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