Worrying concerns regarding the future of Natural Selection 2?

YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
edited December 2015 in NS2 General Discussion
Good afternoon,

Before I make this post I think it would be wise to introduce myself and inform others why I am making this post.

Hi, my name is Yojimbo a fellow british player, editor for ns2news. A player that has been around since the initial launch of Natural Selection 1, which I played religiously and administered for one of the last EU servers (WONGA.ns) during the last hey days of NS1, since then I have go on to playing NS2 almost everyday and was even graciously invited to become a member of the playtesting and maptesting team. I communicate with members of CDT on a very daily basis however I shall remain as unbiased as possible in my synopsis of everything that has come to light in particularly regards to the newly formed ns2dev team, its leadership and the current situation with patch 278.

No game has kept me coming back as much as Natural Selection 2, having played this series for over 12 years now it has become an unofficial love child of mine, which is why I am posting this now as I believe the best interests of Natural Selection 2 are no longer the main concern of Unknown Worlds Entertainment.

My concern is one of the leadership that has been decided in the formation of the newly created ns2dev team. It has raised many eyebrows among the community, publicly and privately in regards to WHO is steering the ship that is Natural Selection 2, people are worried about the choice of captain for this role. I won't mention directly who I am referring to as it doesn't take much alluding to the person in subject.

My questions are ;- Are UWE confident enough that this is the "ideal" person they want to best represent the game's future for the community? What was the reason behind this decision? Is there another potentially better qualified person for the role?

The atmosphere at the moment in relation to the release of patch 278 is that no apologies were made and that UWE hands are washed cleanly from the blame with a dissolution of the CDT come monday?

Poor choice of words maybe? Or is there any real weight to these posts.

This is in no way a personal attack on said person it's just my honest opinion that given the way PR is currently being handled and have been handled in the past, the underlying tones of dissolution of CDT is a major worry for me and I know I am not the only person who shares this belief.

So my question I ask to you all, are you confident enough to place your trust in the current leadership and the decisions being made so far?
Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

George Carlin.

Worrying concerns regarding the future of Natural Selection 2? 110 votes

Yes, I am confident that in light of all that has happened, Natural Selection 2 will persevere and only time will tell.
12% 14 votes
No, I am worried in regards to how the situation is being handled as of late and believe something must be done about it.
78% 86 votes
Neither, I am indifferent to the situation.
9% 10 votes
Kouji_SanNS3DreamJektNominousWalsa0niRisingSunScout255.trixX.3X4L7
«1

Comments

  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, BelgiumMembers, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Posts: 1,305 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    From an outsiders point of view, it seems like there's a lot of bridges being burned down lately. People who've been doing some great work for free, in their limited spare time, don't appear to be treated with the respect they deserve. Letting the CDT continue to update NS2 was a very smart decision from UWE. Knowing that the game was still being worked on, even if it was only part time by volunteers, certainly kept a lot of players interested in the game. And the CDT has made some real progress, more than I honestly thought they would.

    Now that this apparently is coming to an end, I just hope UWE is really serious about funding further development. However the communication about the further plans for NS2 has been so vague it's hard to tell what's in store for the post-CDT era. I need a forth option, "Unsure", because I'm definitely not indifferent about this.
    0ni
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    I have faith in the cdt. I have faith in the new devs.
    My faith in uwe as a whole is dwindling though. I can accept patches going bad.

    I can accept big flaws making it in patches. But uwe does indeed seem to not be fully aware of the situation when they react to something, making them react in one of the worst ways possible.

    I havent decided yet if its a yes or a no vote, but its not good by a long shot.
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  • WobWob Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Posts: 485 Advanced user
    It's funny how CDT was quite open, transparent, and communicative, and UWE has just come back in and shut down those channels.

    Less is definitely not more in this case
    2cough
  • CalegoCalego Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Posts: 763 Advanced user
    I'm most concerned by how vauge everything is (until suddenly it's not). Take for example from the Q&A:
    I don’t know how we’re doing to do it. But I do know that we are already experimenting with various methods, and I am very sure we will find a method that works really well.
    With regards to how people can be rewarded for their work as community members.
    I bloody well hope not. The CDT is a brilliant entity. There’s got to be some clever thinking about how CDT and Unknown Worlds can coexist.
    With regard to whether the CDT will be disbanded. You "hope not"? Aren't you guys deciding to be the deciding factor again? Isn't it entirely in your power whether or not you disband the organization known as the CDT?
    This really is the money-shot. This is what I spend most of my time thinking about. I’ve had hours and hours of conversations with various volunteer contributors discussing this issue. One of my biggest failings during this entire process is that I haven’t been able to effectively articulate the idea that there’s no ‘us and them.’ That is, someone might not be hired by Unknown Worlds for reasons other than whether they are ‘good enough.’
    ...
    I’m confident the NS2 development team will find a way to solve this problem.
    With regards to how they will reward people again.


    So far what we know for sure is that UWE has hired a group of community members to take on some part-time positions building stuff for NS2. We also now know that:
    Today, Brock completed crucial components of UWE’s new iterative update system. It’s a good bet UWE will start making changes to NS2 as soon as Monday. At that stage, the old monolithic build method is going to get the chop.
    So apparently this new team is jumping right into things.

    All in all, this feels alot like UWE is Leeeroy Jenkinsing into this again (despite the hours and hours of planning and conversations). There's a lot of questions they're "going to solve."

    You don't vote in the guy whose plan is "I'll figure this whole government thing when I get into office," you vote for the guy who has the plan figured out, even if it's a crummy plan at start.

    To the specific concerns: We need to carefully test the assumptions being made. Without diving in to each one, let’s take “there are likely to be more bugs” as an example. What evidence is there for this? What secondary assumptions are being made? Have other sources of evidence been considered? This assumption, and the others, are ingrained in NS2 community culture. They are not necessarily true. We should all relish the opportunity to challenge them.
    There's an old saying. "Don't fix what ain't broke." It sure looks like UWE looked over at NS2's imperfect but more or less functional system, and said, "You know what, I bet we can break that and then figure out whether it's actually broken."

    I'm most worried about how this will impact the modding community. (shameless plug)
    Kouji_San.trixX.
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    This poll is too leading for me to vote on. I'm fine with UWE's development plan but I do have serious concerns with their handling of the community. None of this drama had to happen. Hugh needs to communicate less dirty laundry to the public and communicate more with the people who are actually involved.
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    Also it's weird to me that Flayra is MIA for all this. I know he's busy with Subnautica but I think it would be a good gesture for him to step in and try to make amends at this point.
    SupaFred
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    The rollback... What a challenge in terms of PR...
    • Community side : So many loaded guns with explosive bullets. Legit reasons
    • UWE : 1 water pistol and a banana
    I mean; survive from that "Mexican stand" is quite a challenge. Like : "Damn; apocalypse just got real".
    I don't even know if Chuck Norris could do this... Well he can, he's Chuck Norris.
    But hey I'm not a bastard : "beer for everyone !!!" if UWE PR comes out without a scratch from THIS.

    But worst. Even if PR gets better... we don't care. We care about a game improving and not falling into the "oops i goofed" stuff every time we have an update.
    ChubbChubbs ???

    Reach me on NS2 forums in :
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  • BalmarkBalmark Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3476Posts: 332 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    I believe Hugh will do as bad a job of Project Management as he has done with PR

    tbh I wish the poll read "Who should be PM of NS2"
    1. Hugh
    or
    2. Mendasp


  • DecoyDecoy Members, Super Administrators, Playtest Lead, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159037Posts: 400 vanilla
    @Zek I believe UWE would rather discuss things internally before making posts all willy nilly. This isn't a problem that has to be handled over the weekend. It will probably be better to give everyone some time to cool off anyway. Plus, Charlie had the day off today. The man deserves his weekends :P

    There's been some talk and I'm pretty confident that the issues will be addressed. Give it time
    UWE Playtest Co-Lead
    NarfwakcooliticWakedragonmith
  • BalmarkBalmark Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3476Posts: 332 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    @Decoy re: ' This isn't a problem that has to be handled over the weekend'

    it's been a long 2 weeks in which he could have made some sort of comment ..


    2cough0ni
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    I am not THAT upset about the 278 patch. Rollback happened, it got fixed.. sort of.
    But so much communication uwe has send out into the forum lately is just... bad.

    Regardless if they mean it like that or not, I also read it as a enormous kick in the face to the CDT when they write nonsense like that.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    I've added an edit to my post, I think it's important we all calm down and work this out together. Let's stop screwing around and play the blamegame, that shit get's us nowhere fast...

    I believe this is the final opportunity to get NS2 back in action, let's take the positive stuff from these recent blogposts and actually do something with it dammit!

    -Open communication lines
    -Proper and valid feedback, and accepting that some things will get slapped down
    -Stop this dance of "we want to say something, but not directly" bullshit

    Hmmkay ladsNlassies :angry:



    Sorry for hijacking your perfectly valid thread there @Yojimbo, but I feel it could be more productive... I'm not taking any one's side, I just feel there needs to be a chance to solve all this nonsense. Let's see where it goes from here \o/
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    Balmark wrote: »
    I believe Hugh will do as bad a job of Project Management as he has done with PR

    tbh I wish the poll read "Who should be PM of NS2"
    1. Hugh
    or
    2. Mendasp

    After the whole viewmodel rotate "enemy list" underhanded shenanigans on NS2+ I don't think Mendasp should be remotely near any power structure in NS2. If he had that much power and access, he'd probably add specific lines of code to the game to burn out the graphics cards of people who criticize him.
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

    woozaGORGEous
  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    Decoy wrote: »
    @Zek I believe UWE would rather discuss things internally before making posts all willy nilly. This isn't a problem that has to be handled over the weekend. It will probably be better to give everyone some time to cool off anyway. Plus, Charlie had the day off today. The man deserves his weekends :P

    There's been some talk and I'm pretty confident that the issues will be addressed. Give it time

    Funny you should say that. Because from the comments by Asraniel and others it appears that a post was made "willy nilly" that caused much offense to the shunned portion of the CDT. And all the cooling off clearly is required now because of that very same "willy nilly" post.
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    Elvis said it best: We need a little less conversation, and a little more action.

    Way too much politics over the last week: surely a sign of a game in its death throes?
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

    Hamlet
  • SaltlickSaltlick Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177347Posts: 86 Advanced user
    I think more professionalism and empathy is needed from all sides of this conflict. I hope everyone involved can work out a compromise soon; far too much energy is going into it.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    Apologies are good start to professionalism.
    mattji104
  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    2cough wrote: »
    Balmark wrote: »
    I believe Hugh will do as bad a job of Project Management as he has done with PR

    tbh I wish the poll read "Who should be PM of NS2"
    1. Hugh
    or
    2. Mendasp

    After the whole viewmodel rotate "enemy list" underhanded shenanigans on NS2+ I don't think Mendasp should be remotely near any power structure in NS2. If he had that much power and access, he'd probably add specific lines of code to the game to burn out the graphics cards of people who criticize him.

    You've got to be fkn kidding.

    So you think his behaviour in that episode was acceptable? Please. Learn some basic decency.
    Post edited by SupaDupaNoodle on
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    Wob wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Balmark wrote: »
    I believe Hugh will do as bad a job of Project Management as he has done with PR

    tbh I wish the poll read "Who should be PM of NS2"
    1. Hugh
    or
    2. Mendasp

    After the whole viewmodel rotate "enemy list" underhanded shenanigans on NS2+ I don't think Mendasp should be remotely near any power structure in NS2. If he had that much power and access, he'd probably add specific lines of code to the game to burn out the graphics cards of people who criticize him.

    You've got to be fkn kidding.

    So you think his behaviour in that episode was acceptable? Please. Learn some basic decency.

    LOL it was just a bit of fun!

    Swalk got over it and appreciates that it's just a joke, and Golden ASKED for it. Also there's a difference between adding in a couple of jokes for a mod, and then being serious and professional when in a serious and professional capacity.

    Don't be a moron over a joke

    Only moron here is you. Fanboism does no good. What's wrong is wrong, even if your coding god did it.
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    Back on topic please!

    I would like it if this thread didn't devolve into another pointless "my e-penis is bigger than yours NURR" between two keyboard warriors thank you.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    .trixX.MuckyMcFly
  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Back on topic please!

    I would like it if this thread didn't devolve into another pointless "my e-penis is bigger than yours NURR" between two keyboard warriors thank you.

    Your own original post also contains some pointless phrases: "I won't name who I'm talking about but we all know hurr durr". "This is in no way an attack on said person hurr durr, but should we get rid of his leadership?".

    Way too much passive aggression on these forums.
    SupaDupaNoodle
    I'm a signature virus :D Copy me into your signature!
    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

    Hamlet
  • develdevel Members Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Posts: 352 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    Usual drama when some reorg happens in IT. Everyone wants to look better then others.

    The future can be assured only by dual-licensing the code.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Members, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Posts: 515 Advanced user
    edited December 2015
    its their game... so why do we think we have the ability or right or "believe that something must be done about it"?
  • _INTER__INTER_ Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Posts: 822 Advanced user
    I don't know Hugh, but I know Wasabi enough to say that I'm not worried.
    Warforce17 wrote: »
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    --> pistol time axe time welder time riflebutt time
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