The Skill Level is changing the NS2 main strategy

TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
This Skill Level is leading many players to focus at aim and kill, never respecting advanced strategys.

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  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited October 2015
    This Skill Level is leading many players to focus at aim and kill, never respecting advanced strategys.

    There must be a misunderstanding. The only player action that affects the hive skill rating is if you win or loose. Nothing else.

    So if people want to improve their skill ratings they should focus on contributing as much as they can to the team's victory.

    More details can be found here
  • d4rkAlfd4rkAlf Sweden Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189309Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    After many hours of NS2 I can tell you this; a True Master sees that all he has to do is kill and aim towards the commander of the enemy.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    This Skill Level is leading many players to focus at aim and kill, never respecting advanced strategys.

    There must be a misunderstanding. The only player action that affects the hive skill rating is if you win or loose. Nothing else.

    So if people want to improve their skill ratings they should focus on contributing as much as they can to the team's victory.

    More details can be found here

    I saw the details and they look like a college master's work.
    Maybe associate the hive-Skill with the low strategic quality of the players is wrong at first sight.
    The fact is that most players of the servers I played (MCG, Diamond, Ibis) act as if the strategy and decision-making were the last important thing.
    I noticed that it began to grow with the launch of Skill-hive.
    So I figured this system you are using is new, it is not the first system.

    The bad thing is that the game's growth as a strategy and decision-making never really happened, and I see it in their own official championships.
    I can say with conviction that now never exceeds 50% the maximum amount of interested and aware players within a server.
    The other 50% or more always are in order to naughtiness and bluster.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    d4rkAlf wrote: »
    After many hours of NS2 I can tell you this; a True Master sees that all he has to do is kill and aim towards the commander of the enemy.

    You are completly wrong.
    As most have been arrogant.
  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2015
    Id love to hear about your advanced strategies, and please elaborate on how said strategies can work without focusing on aiming and killing for the most part.

    edit- Because of the difficulty of balancing the game across many different player counts the strategy element of ns2 is more of -what not to do- than -what do we do- when you get down to the core, the exempt options are of course choosing where and when to drop pg's, gorge tunnels, when to hit the base ECT.

  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    Id love to hear about your advanced strategies, and please elaborate on how said strategies can work without focusing on aiming and killing for the most part.

    edit- Because of the difficulty of balancing the game across many different player counts the strategy element of ns2 is more of -what not to do- than -what do we do- when you get down to the core, the exempt options are of course choosing where and when to drop pg's, gorge tunnels, when to hit the base ECT.

    Probably you are counting only with the facts related with your particular experiences.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    edited October 2015
    MaxAmus wrote: »
    Really?
    not-this-again.jpg

    It is much more than a true, it is a disaster.
    When the Hive-skill was launched I knew this could happen, I saw it happen and did nothing. Now that the ship has sunk I came to say.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.

    I have no idea what you mean by "first system". Maybe you mean that before hive there was ns2stats, a community project? So yes, hive is indeed the "second" system. ns2stats is no longer working though.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    Asraniel wrote: »
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.

    I have no idea what you mean by "first system". Maybe you mean that before hive there was ns2stats, a community project? So yes, hive is indeed the "second" system. ns2stats is no longer working though.

    In fact I am referring to the Skill Level system that tells the player that he is better than the other, at the entrance screen and records.
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Again with this... the skill system does not tell anyone who is "better" but who is more likely to win the round, just because you have an extremly high hive score may not mean you are a high skilled player - just you win alot off rounds?

    Dont get me wrong there is some really skilled players - but some of them have a really low hive skill score.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    Asraniel wrote: »
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.

    I have no idea what you mean by "first system". Maybe you mean that before hive there was ns2stats, a community project? So yes, hive is indeed the "second" system. ns2stats is no longer working though.

    I'm guessing that these images produce a sense that takes the players to look for ways to have boast that make these players worse.
  • TheTemplarKnightTheTemplarKnight Join Date: 2013-08-21 Member: 186997Members
    MaxAmus wrote: »
    Again with this... the skill system does not tell anyone who is "better" but who is more likely to win the round, just because you have an extremly high hive score may not mean you are a high skilled player - just you win alot off rounds?

    Dont get me wrong there is some really skilled players - but some of them have a really low hive skill score.

    You are not right at your principles.

    Just to remind you, this topic is not about technology, but about game-design and psychology.
  • d4rkAlfd4rkAlf Sweden Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189309Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Asraniel wrote: »
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.

    I have no idea what you mean by "first system". Maybe you mean that before hive there was ns2stats, a community project? So yes, hive is indeed the "second" system. ns2stats is no longer working though.

    I'm guessing that these images produce a sense that takes the players to look for ways to have boast that make these players worse.

    Ah! Now i get it. :-)
  • d4rkAlfd4rkAlf Sweden Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189309Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2015
    Edit: Ooops, double posted.
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
  • bonagebonage Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    This Skill Level is leading many players to focus at aim and kill, never respecting advanced strategys.

    what are these advanced strategies you speak of ? Please tell us how you think the game is meant to be played.
  • LamboLambo Iceland Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154915Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2015
    yeah, it's marvelous to have a system which represents your -Skill- from nothing but win/loss in a game like ns2, especially when 85% of the player base worship it and make all their decisions based off of it like idiots.

    eheheheh
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Asraniel wrote: »
    Asraniel wrote: »
    The whole point of hive skill is that it rewards any playstyle and strategy.
    If you are a badass gorge that never kills anything but leads your team to victory, your hive skill will rise.

    It is not the first system.

    I have no idea what you mean by "first system". Maybe you mean that before hive there was ns2stats, a community project? So yes, hive is indeed the "second" system. ns2stats is no longer working though.

    In fact I am referring to the Skill Level system that tells the player that he is better than the other, at the entrance screen and records.

    Ah now i know what you talk about. The main menu display of the hive LEVEL, which is different to skill. The hive level is purely based on your playtime.
    So it only measures who plays more. You can loose every single game and your hive level will increase.
  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    joshhh wrote: »
    Lambo offers a hive boosting service for 15‎€ per 1000 hive points. He hacks so it's a guaranteed boost...

    All jokes aside, why is the number even visible to players? It just encourages people to do really stupid stuff to boost their score... just look at [insert #1 hive skill player here]. Dude admits to cheating the system. If the only reason we have the system is for voting to balance by hive skill, then just hide the score. No one needs to see it.

    +1.

    But then on what basis will the zealots project their forum and in-game chat snobbishness?
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    joshhh wrote: »
    Lambo offers a hive boosting service for 15‎€ per 1000 hive points. He hacks so it's a guaranteed boost...

    All jokes aside, why is the number even visible to players? It just encourages people to do really stupid stuff to boost their score... just look at [insert #1 hive skill player here]. Dude admits to cheating the system. If the only reason we have the system is for voting to balance by hive skill, then just hide the score. No one needs to see it.

    Buut then we wont be able to have our weekly chats about Hive and how awesome it is :scream:
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    joshhh wrote: »
    Lambo offers a hive boosting service for 15‎€ per 1000 hive points. He hacks so it's a guaranteed boost...

    All jokes aside, why is the number even visible to players? It just encourages people to do really stupid stuff to boost their score... just look at [insert #1 hive skill player here]. Dude admits to cheating the system. If the only reason we have the system is for voting to balance by hive skill, then just hide the score. No one needs to see it.

    +1.

    But then on what basis will the zealots project their forum and in-game chat snobbishness?
    Life finds a way.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Lamb wrote: »
    yeah, it's marvelous to have a system which represents your -Skill- from nothing but win/loss in a game like ns2, especially when 85% of the player base worship it and make all their decisions based off of it like idiots.

    eheheheh

    And what would you have people making those decisions on, tea leaves? The fact is that the hive skill score WORKS. On a general level you can immediately see which players are better than others, and by how much, and compare it with yourself to see in advance just how badly they can kick your ass or vice versa.

    In addition to team balancing it can also impact immediate playstyle, when you know a player has 1000+ skill over you you don't bother attacking them alone from the front, even as a higher lifeform/with a better weapon. When they have 500-1000 less, you can do exactly that relatively safely. On your own team it tells you which players you can rely on in a fight, who is good to support, and who probably isn't worth your time. It impacts the game at a strategic level when you can take out softer targets quickly and efficiently and save time and teammates for the harder ones, rather than approaching every player as if they were the greatest possible threat. Generally the sort of reading takes the form of checking the scoreboard for the highest-rated players on the other team and making sure none of the new-faces have the numbers to surprise you.

    Of course, while accurate, hive score isn't all that precise. A 10 point difference doesn't really mean much at all, and even a 100 point difference is fairly inconsequential. 500 point differences in player skill though are at least 99% decisive that that player is better/worse.
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited October 2015
    sotanaht wrote: »
    In addition to team balancing it can also impact immediate playstyle, when you know a player has 1000+ skill over you you don't bother attacking them alone from the front, even as a higher lifeform/with a better weapon. When they have 500-1000 less, you can do exactly that relatively safely. On your own team it tells you which players you can rely on in a fight, who is good to support, and who probably isn't worth your time. It impacts the game at a strategic level when you can take out softer targets quickly and efficiently and save time and teammates for the harder ones, rather than approaching every player as if they were the greatest possible threat. Generally the sort of reading takes the form of checking the scoreboard for the highest-rated players on the other team and making sure none of the new-faces have the numbers to surprise you.

    What? have you even looked at the hive skill stat? there is some players in there that cant even hold there on in a 1v1 with a higher lifeform - some have even cheated the system to get there????

    I have seen players with 3k+ score get wrecked by 1000-1500 players, so again, i dont see how it should be considered as a "True" skill, you are correct that the overall team average if lower than the other team then they are less likely to win - but they still can win.

    Also just because a player has a very high hive score - it dont mean they understand the game - all the says is they win alot - there could be factors in why they win alot - but again there is also players that can solo a server on there own - but still have a low hive skill score.

    :disappointed:
  • unrenderedunrendered Finland Join Date: 2013-11-07 Member: 189137Members, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    joshhh wrote: »
    just look at [insert #1 hive skill player here]

    ye novorei go fuk yourself
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Ja...

    Ok...

    NOPE!

    And with that my fellow Earthlings, I shall declare this thread as serving it's purpose, answers were given, sarcasm was applied in abundance, case closed and all that good stuff :)
This discussion has been closed.