SebMelbourne, AUJoin Date: 2013-04-01Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
Forgive me for having an unpopular opinion, but what exactly is the problem with smurfing if there is no skill-based matchmaking? I don't see any issue with it, unless they are evading bans...
Some of the smurfers are actually too good to be true. They never check any corner, but always find a way to avoid being taken by surprise. And other symptoms. It looks like banned players with new steam account.
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
Some of the smurfers are actually too good to be true. They never check any corner, but always find a way to avoid being taken by surprise. And other symptoms. It looks like banned players with new steam account.
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
Some of the smurfers are actually too good to be true. They never check any corner, but always find a way to avoid being taken by surprise. And other symptoms. It looks like banned players with new steam account.
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
So the best is to loose the smurfing.
that's a pretty wild accusation, that i'm not entirely sure you're qualified to make.
hackusations are pretty ridiculous at this point, considering the tiny player-base.
There's a few reasons I think people smurf, from trolling to not having to worry about how they play in terms of their main handle's reputation (which seems silly but I know people do this). But the most 'legitimate' reason I've seen is to avoid stacking - if you are known to be a good player people are likely to stack your team - if they can't recognize you they can't stack. Or likewise a more devious application is TO stack without having anyone realize it... personally I never understood smurfing and I like games that discourage it.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
Some of the smurfers are actually too good to be true. They never check any corner, but always find a way to avoid being taken by surprise. And other symptoms. It looks like banned players with new steam account.
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
So the best is to loose the smurfing.
Even though this is speculation I wouldn't say there are a high amount of smurf hackers but more so of players exploiting the system, which 275 patch apparently has fixed, so hackusations should come down quite abit.
There's a few reasons I think people smurf, from trolling to not having to worry about how they play in terms of their main handle's reputation (which seems silly but I know people do this). But the most 'legitimate' reason I've seen is to avoid stacking - if you are known to be a good player people are likely to stack your team - if they can't recognize you they can't stack. Or likewise a more devious application is TO stack without having anyone realize it... personally I never understood smurfing and I like games that discourage it.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
That only works for one round though. As soon as "ygolotnar", the mysteriously good rookie finishes out a round with a 40:1 kdr, suddenly everyone wants to be on their team anyways.
My main gripe is it breaks force even teams, and pretty much anything that relies on hive data. Yes yes, it's not perfect, but I think it actually gets it close most of the time. But there's no chance of getting balanced properly if the hive skill is completely misrepresentative of the player's skill. (eg someone who is good enough for 2500+ that only shows 300 would get balanced to a team that already has very experienced players).
I don't think simply changing the name and hiding the badges actually resets the hive skill, so I'm primarily talking about players with alternate steam accounts.
There's a few reasons I think people smurf, from trolling to not having to worry about how they play in terms of their main handle's reputation (which seems silly but I know people do this). But the most 'legitimate' reason I've seen is to avoid stacking - if you are known to be a good player people are likely to stack your team - if they can't recognize you they can't stack. Or likewise a more devious application is TO stack without having anyone realize it... personally I never understood smurfing and I like games that discourage it.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
That only works for one round though. As soon as "ygolotnar", the mysteriously good rookie finishes out a round with a 40:1 kdr, suddenly everyone wants to be on their team anyways.
My main gripe is it breaks force even teams, and pretty much anything that relies on hive data. Yes yes, it's not perfect, but I think it actually gets it close most of the time. But there's no chance of getting balanced properly if the hive skill is completely misrepresentative of the player's skill. (eg someone who is good enough for 2500+ that only shows 300 would get balanced to a team that already has very experienced players).
I don't think simply changing the name and hiding the badges actually resets the hive skill, so I'm primarily talking about players with alternate steam accounts.
I don't pay attention to hive skill much but more so on KDR, thats more a reliable source of information than hive skill, theres a plugin that forces KDR teams anyway so that should help alittle.
There's a few reasons I think people smurf, from trolling to not having to worry about how they play in terms of their main handle's reputation (which seems silly but I know people do this). But the most 'legitimate' reason I've seen is to avoid stacking - if you are known to be a good player people are likely to stack your team - if they can't recognize you they can't stack. Or likewise a more devious application is TO stack without having anyone realize it... personally I never understood smurfing and I like games that discourage it.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
That only works for one round though. As soon as "ygolotnar", the mysteriously good rookie finishes out a round with a 40:1 kdr, suddenly everyone wants to be on their team anyways.
I don't play anymore, but when I did I smurfed (not with the green name thing). If I got a ridiculous kdr like that, I jump servers immediately. I have no interest in games like that with no resistance. So the nick can work significantly longer than one game.
I've met this one guy btw on a pub the other day. 8 KDR, 75% marines games. He's funny. Almost 99% sure he/she hacks. We had a good laugh. He definitely doesn't use a smurf, that would be counter productive to him/her. Just for bragging purposes
I've met this one guy btw on a pub the other day. 8 KDR, 75% marines games. He's funny. Almost 99% sure he/she hacks. We had a good laugh. He definitely doesn't use a smurf, that would be counter productive to him/her. Just for bragging purposes
Careful about name and shame, might wanna edit that lol, yeah I saw him on server today, he knows I like to spec him so he deliberately sandbags and plays rubbish, its not a hack its an exploit. I just laugh at him as he now knows he's being watched lol
There's a few reasons I think people smurf, from trolling to not having to worry about how they play in terms of their main handle's reputation (which seems silly but I know people do this). But the most 'legitimate' reason I've seen is to avoid stacking - if you are known to be a good player people are likely to stack your team - if they can't recognize you they can't stack. Or likewise a more devious application is TO stack without having anyone realize it... personally I never understood smurfing and I like games that discourage it.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
That only works for one round though. As soon as "ygolotnar", the mysteriously good rookie finishes out a round with a 40:1 kdr, suddenly everyone wants to be on their team anyways.
My main gripe is it breaks force even teams, and pretty much anything that relies on hive data. Yes yes, it's not perfect, but I think it actually gets it close most of the time. But there's no chance of getting balanced properly if the hive skill is completely misrepresentative of the player's skill. (eg someone who is good enough for 2500+ that only shows 300 would get balanced to a team that already has very experienced players).
I don't think simply changing the name and hiding the badges actually resets the hive skill, so I'm primarily talking about players with alternate steam accounts.
god i don't know what's up with force even, but some server thought that a 700 vs 1400 match was balanced the other day. we all got a good laugh out of it, then one team got facerolled.... i'll let you guess which.
keep in mind, there were something like... 30 percent vs 70 percent rookies vs normal hive values and it was i think 18 man. plenty of material to work with so to speak.
Smurfing means you cannot balance teams with hive scores, or by manually doing it.
Smurfing means people are free to act in a way that would normally ruin their reputation.
Smurfing allows players who are banned for whatever reason to rejoin.
Smurfing can also be used by a skilled player who doesn't want to reveal their tactics.
So three negative things, one positive and tbh it sounds flakey at that.
If I find a player smurfing they get banned. Sure its possible to smurf without doing anything wrong. However if I ban them, i've not really banned the person have I, they can just come right back with their normal account.
Therefore the default least harm action is to ban smurfers on sight, if they are smurfing for nefarious reasons you stop them. If they are smurfing for other reasons they can still come back on their main account.
It's funny cause I got banned from the Team Work And Tactics servers for smurfing back in 2013 when it really was my first 10 hours. Equally I get called a smurf/hacker in csgo with 150 hours.
Don't assume that people who are good with few hours are smurfs. It is entirely possible to be good at games and pick things up quickly.
If you want to hound out smurfs, encourage mods where you have to keep your steam account public or you can't join a team.
Then you can look at public accounts and make a decision.
If they have multiple games with 100s of hours, they are likely not a smurf.
If they have 1 game (ns2), with few hours, they might well be a smurf.
It's funny cause I got banned from the Team Work And Tactics servers for smurfing back in 2013 when it really was my first 10 hours. Equally I get called a smurf/hacker in csgo with 150 hours.
Don't assume that people who are good with few hours are smurfs. It is entirely possible to be good at games and pick things up quickly.
If you want to hound out smurfs, encourage mods where you have to keep your steam account public or you can't join a team.
Then you can look at public accounts and make a decision.
If they have multiple games with 100s of hours, they are likely not a smurf.
If they have 1 game (ns2), with few hours, they might well be a smurf.
Usually... if a player is that good, they've got at least 500 hours between ns2 and cs:go, or some similar games. I do encourage public steam accounts, otherwise there's no way to check that. Problem is, one of the biggest benefits of making your profile private is that you can't get spammed anymore. I just recently got spammed by some trading card asshole relentlessly last week. Sure, I can block them, but the notifications still popup! (So what's the point, really???) Still, I encourage public profiles.
Some of the smurfers are actually too good to be true. They never check any corner, but always find a way to avoid being taken by surprise. And other symptoms. It looks like banned players with new steam account.
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
So the best is to loose the smurfing.
Even though this is speculation I wouldn't say there are a high amount of smurf hackers but more so of players exploiting the system, which 275 patch apparently has fixed, so hackusations should come down quite abit.
Smurfing means you cannot balance teams with hive scores, or by manually doing it.
Smurfing means people are free to act in a way that would normally ruin their reputation.
Smurfing allows players who are banned for whatever reason to rejoin.
Smurfing can also be used by a skilled player who doesn't want to reveal their tactics.
So three negative things, one positive and tbh it sounds flakey at that.
If I find a player smurfing they get banned. Sure its possible to smurf without doing anything wrong. However if I ban them, i've not really banned the person have I, they can just come right back with their normal account.
Therefore the default least harm action is to ban smurfers on sight, if they are smurfing for nefarious reasons you stop them. If they are smurfing for other reasons they can still come back on their main account.
Do what you want. I'd just say, I think you're tossing the baby.
Also, don't try and justify it. You're banning people arbitrarily, the least you could do is own that fact. Your server, your rules. Just don't pretend you're right.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
For anyone looking for less "who is that?" and more "I actually know everyone here", TGNS makes it very easy for any regular to view the tracked aliases of any other player on the server, and we promote fixed player names in our reserved slots implementation. I'm surprised "community and fellowship" hasn't been more cited as the strongest argument against dynamic identity. For many (not all!) players, knowing your teammates and opponents adds depth to the game's enjoyment, both socially and competitively!
For anyone looking for less "who is that?" and more "I actually know everyone here", TGNS makes it very easy for any regular to view the tracked aliases of any other player on the server, and we promote fixed player names in our reserved slots implementation. I'm surprised "community and fellowship" hasn't been more cited as the strongest argument against dynamic identity. For many (not all!) players, knowing your teammates and opponents adds depth to the game's enjoyment, both socially and competitively!
That is what really makes games in ns2 great. When people complain that ns2 is no fun, I feel they must be playing wrong. They must be playing on the wrong servers with the wrong people. Further than that, what servers I find fun another won't. I may not like wooza's but there obviously is a lot of people who do. I may like the tactical freedom and gamer servers but there are many who don't.
I have said it before as in the above quote, and I will say it again. Ns2 is a good game on its own, but what makes it great is who you play with. When you find a community or group that has the same expectations from a game of ns2, you all strive to make the game what you want it to be. Every regular on woozas servers expects a certain kind of gameplay more than just an insane amount of players. Together they make the game more fun. This is true with other communities like DMD, TGNS, LF and even comp ns2.
When you can recognize half the players on a server, not by their nameplate over their head, but how they move... that adds depth. When you engage each player differently because you know who they are. When you ambush a certain way because you know they always check that one corner. When you simply run away as a skulk to bite res instead of engaging, or position yourself better in preparation as a marine... that is depth.
Ns2 is built around communities. When a certain server is does not have players, the regulars often don't play ns2. I beleive it was @IEPTBARAKAT or @benson who said they open the server browser just to see if any good servers have players. If they don't see any they don't play. This is an example of how strongly ns2 is tied to communities.
Edit: How often do you see all of these 7 people who agreed with this post, including myself, actually agree on something. Shows how true my statements are.
For anyone looking for less "who is that?" and more "I actually know everyone here", TGNS makes it very easy for any regular to view the tracked aliases of any other player on the server, and we promote fixed player names in our reserved slots implementation. I'm surprised "community and fellowship" hasn't been more cited as the strongest argument against dynamic identity. For many (not all!) players, knowing your teammates and opponents adds depth to the game's enjoyment, both socially and competitively!
I'm afraid the smurfing "problem" (which is very small imo), is done by newly bought accounts through sales. It's not as simple as 1 account just changing names.
Turns out, once you pay attention to beiges find, there are a quite a few. People do -anything- to be able to stack. But this method ruins the most commonly used defense: hive stat team balance.
Why people smurf I can't say.
But I can explain why I myself have and for some time played on a smurf account.
I have several NS2 keys left from a sale. So I chose to use one at a time where I started to get bored of NS2. The reason I got bored of NS2 is that my skill rating was and is above average. My elo is around 1700 to 2100 and the average skill is usually around 1000. Meaning a lot of people have an elo below the 1000.
So with the constant obsessing of even elo and Force Even Teams. Then I would always have to carry my team in order of having a chance of winning the round. So with my smurf account my intention was not to stack. But to play gorge. And when it happened. I would also be able to counter stack if needed. Making the game a lot more fun.
I pretty much continued this until my elo on my smurf account was the same as on my normal account.
For anyone looking for less "who is that?" and more "I actually know everyone here", TGNS makes it very easy for any regular to view the tracked aliases of any other player on the server, and we promote fixed player names in our reserved slots implementation. I'm surprised "community and fellowship" hasn't been more cited as the strongest argument against dynamic identity. For many (not all!) players, knowing your teammates and opponents adds depth to the game's enjoyment, both socially and competitively!
I'm afraid the smurfing "problem" (which is very small imo), is done by newly bought accounts through sales. It's not as simple as 1 account just changing names.
I understand. It is, of course, easier to change a player name than it is to purchase the game again. We limited the former and benefited considerably. We've not been compelled to act on the latter at all, FWIW. Alt accounts just haven't been that disruptive for us. That's likely due in part to our complex reserved slots logic, which goes out of its way to protect only a limited number of unknown accounts when the server is deluged with regulars.
Comments
So the problem isn't if you are smurfing for fun or not. The question is : are all the smurfers possible suspects concerning cheats ? Even if it is one or two amongst many; it leads to that.
So the best is to loose the smurfing.
that's a pretty wild accusation, that i'm not entirely sure you're qualified to make.
hackusations are pretty ridiculous at this point, considering the tiny player-base.
also, command map is almost a wallhack.
The protest about smurfing is kind of moot though because I can't imagine anything could be done about it.
Even though this is speculation I wouldn't say there are a high amount of smurf hackers but more so of players exploiting the system, which 275 patch apparently has fixed, so hackusations should come down quite abit.
That only works for one round though. As soon as "ygolotnar", the mysteriously good rookie finishes out a round with a 40:1 kdr, suddenly everyone wants to be on their team anyways.
My main gripe is it breaks force even teams, and pretty much anything that relies on hive data. Yes yes, it's not perfect, but I think it actually gets it close most of the time. But there's no chance of getting balanced properly if the hive skill is completely misrepresentative of the player's skill. (eg someone who is good enough for 2500+ that only shows 300 would get balanced to a team that already has very experienced players).
I don't think simply changing the name and hiding the badges actually resets the hive skill, so I'm primarily talking about players with alternate steam accounts.
I don't pay attention to hive skill much but more so on KDR, thats more a reliable source of information than hive skill, theres a plugin that forces KDR teams anyway so that should help alittle.
Careful about name and shame, might wanna edit that lol, yeah I saw him on server today, he knows I like to spec him so he deliberately sandbags and plays rubbish, its not a hack its an exploit. I just laugh at him as he now knows he's being watched lol
*runs and hides*
I've met this Zavaro guy the other day, and he seemed really great.
Post not edited by the Illuminati at June 24
keep in mind, there were something like... 30 percent vs 70 percent rookies vs normal hive values and it was i think 18 man. plenty of material to work with so to speak.
Smurfing means people are free to act in a way that would normally ruin their reputation.
Smurfing allows players who are banned for whatever reason to rejoin.
Smurfing can also be used by a skilled player who doesn't want to reveal their tactics.
So three negative things, one positive and tbh it sounds flakey at that.
If I find a player smurfing they get banned. Sure its possible to smurf without doing anything wrong. However if I ban them, i've not really banned the person have I, they can just come right back with their normal account.
Therefore the default least harm action is to ban smurfers on sight, if they are smurfing for nefarious reasons you stop them. If they are smurfing for other reasons they can still come back on their main account.
Don't assume that people who are good with few hours are smurfs. It is entirely possible to be good at games and pick things up quickly.
If you want to hound out smurfs, encourage mods where you have to keep your steam account public or you can't join a team.
Then you can look at public accounts and make a decision.
If they have multiple games with 100s of hours, they are likely not a smurf.
If they have 1 game (ns2), with few hours, they might well be a smurf.
Usually... if a player is that good, they've got at least 500 hours between ns2 and cs:go, or some similar games. I do encourage public steam accounts, otherwise there's no way to check that. Problem is, one of the biggest benefits of making your profile private is that you can't get spammed anymore. I just recently got spammed by some trading card asshole relentlessly last week. Sure, I can block them, but the notifications still popup! (So what's the point, really???) Still, I encourage public profiles.
Let's hope.
Do what you want. I'd just say, I think you're tossing the baby.
Also, don't try and justify it. You're banning people arbitrarily, the least you could do is own that fact. Your server, your rules. Just don't pretend you're right.
Kappa
This pleases Gargamel...
Perhaps if we catch all the smurfs, we can make a potion to turn anything to gold...
gold = money = development = long live ns2
So in a way, we can thank the smurfs, right?
I love this feature!
I have said it before as in the above quote, and I will say it again. Ns2 is a good game on its own, but what makes it great is who you play with. When you find a community or group that has the same expectations from a game of ns2, you all strive to make the game what you want it to be. Every regular on woozas servers expects a certain kind of gameplay more than just an insane amount of players. Together they make the game more fun. This is true with other communities like DMD, TGNS, LF and even comp ns2.
When you can recognize half the players on a server, not by their nameplate over their head, but how they move... that adds depth. When you engage each player differently because you know who they are. When you ambush a certain way because you know they always check that one corner. When you simply run away as a skulk to bite res instead of engaging, or position yourself better in preparation as a marine... that is depth.
Ns2 is built around communities. When a certain server is does not have players, the regulars often don't play ns2. I beleive it was @IEPTBARAKAT or @benson who said they open the server browser just to see if any good servers have players. If they don't see any they don't play. This is an example of how strongly ns2 is tied to communities.
Edit: How often do you see all of these 7 people who agreed with this post, including myself, actually agree on something. Shows how true my statements are.
I'm afraid the smurfing "problem" (which is very small imo), is done by newly bought accounts through sales. It's not as simple as 1 account just changing names.
But I can explain why I myself have and for some time played on a smurf account.
I have several NS2 keys left from a sale. So I chose to use one at a time where I started to get bored of NS2. The reason I got bored of NS2 is that my skill rating was and is above average. My elo is around 1700 to 2100 and the average skill is usually around 1000. Meaning a lot of people have an elo below the 1000.
So with the constant obsessing of even elo and Force Even Teams. Then I would always have to carry my team in order of having a chance of winning the round. So with my smurf account my intention was not to stack. But to play gorge. And when it happened. I would also be able to counter stack if needed. Making the game a lot more fun.
I pretty much continued this until my elo on my smurf account was the same as on my normal account.