Don't make the biomes radially symmetric. It's super confusing.
moultano
Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
It seems like any direction I go, I first see green kelp, then red grass, and the biome map seems like it confirms it. This makes it really hard to figure out which direction I went, and makes it seem like it doesn't matter. I'd really like it to matter which direction I travel, and to get a sense of direction from what I see around me.
Comments
There needs to be more distinction at the edge of an area, that uniquely identifies which 'edge' of the biome you are at.
I have pretty much only found the kelp forest, the red floor area, and the fungus mungus huge tree things area. I know I have found other areas in the past, but the last few trips underwater have yielded only these locations..
The compass isn't all that much help either... I still get massively lost and end up going in circles.
Some wild ideas I've heard before: ziplines, outposts, laser links, and echolocation for caves.
Changing the terrain every time we start the game does not make the use of landmarks possible, aside from the occasional recognition of a terrain pattern; like that half round of cave entrances that is usually in the shallows. Until we can record terrain with the game save, navigation is going to be very difficult.
As for mapping, is there any way one can get a wireframe representation of the map? I'm thinking of Descent again, which had an excellent mapping system. If there was some way to convert the generated map/terrain to a wireframe, then use icons to depict biomes, that might be good enough as a start. Being able to set waypoints and view locations/notes with beacons would make it even better.
Another idea, if a map and a camera function manage to make it in the game, tie the picture in with location--that would be the ultimate note illustration.
Ironically, much of ocean floor on Earth isn't mapped because nobody has bothered to map it.
Do it like descent. Make a 3d map we can rotate. Just decimate the voxels to something really low res, and bring it up in space so I can spit in around.
If drones or robots are introduced in the game, maybe you could create one that sits ontop of your lifepod, or floats on top of the water like a lilypad, and when activated, hovers a story or so above the water with a downwards facing camera that can be viewed through your PDA. Using a grid pattern, you could easily see where you are in conjunction to your pod and other shallow bodies of water.
I would say that it is reasonable to expect players to bring beacons or other navigational equipment on an expedition. The game almost teaches you to do so. For convenience you'll always have the escape pod beacon leading you back to safety but for everything else you are on your own. And I do think that is a good thing. I wouldn't want to encourage players to speed across the entire map in a couple of minutes without paying attention to anything. Yes you can go fast. But no you shouldn't. Granted there is not enough to do right now so you just craft the Seamoth and race around. In time that will change.
By the way: the map is not random. It is masterfully crafted by our exceptional level designers. You don't get this amount of visual fidelity from procedural algorithms yet. If you don't believe me have a look at the cave system inside the giant tree in mushroom forest. However we do randomize the spawn position within reasonable bounds. You will recognize some landmarks if you play long enough.
Add the ability to assign colours, numbers or symbols to beacons and make it clear how far away they are. Perhaps add a toggle to switch them on/off to prevent cluttering if there are many. That way people will be able to map the terrain however they like, triangulate their position, mark interesting things etc. More challenging than a simple map but also more rewarding.
I thought there was variation in the terrain using set pieces in the biome, or the biome locations were rotated. Either way, I didn't mean to offend anyone on the team. However, in my perception as a player, the environment is confusing without some indication of where I have been. Beacons can address that, but without a unique identifier, they will quickly become a problem of their own. What if the beacons only streamed location data in, which would be registered as tick marks/ID on the compass? That would give more of an exact lateral heading, and the beacon billboard animation could be shown when the player is in the area.
Take the red grass area. It is essentially a a circular valley, and is quite easy to get confused as to direction. As all sides have a slope on them. Just make the edges slightly distinctive, maybe blending a bit more with the next biome.
I do use beacons and stuff, but the trouble is I can't tell the distance from one to the other, trying to navigate in a 3d environment underwater or even in space, with only a 2d screen means that beacons all render at the same distance. If you drop more than a few beacons, you end up with a load of blips on your screen which just confuse you as to what is what. Maybe have beacons display their distance from the player too, and a way to distinguish one beacon from another would be good.
I currently use a combination of beacons, the life pod and the ship for reference, but it's a pain in the ass having to come up to the surface to work out where the ship is, when your mucking around on the seabed at 400m+ below the surface. I don't have any real solutions, but I definitely have a problem with navigation, but then, I am not the best navigator in real life.
If I was in that situation, I would have 3d depth perception, and I would be dead inside a day... Making the whole game moot.
I think this is the approach we'll take for now. A full 3D map is possible, but would take a lot of work and it's not clear it's really necessary or much more useful than a good, customizable beacon system.
Happy about this. I'm not a fan of procedural level design.
Or at least have a map or a beacon hub where we can turn on and off the beacons we want to see. the map would only display the over world no under ground places. when i explore caves i would like a paint or a way to mark where i have been and where i need to explore. like a underwater paint spray or a ink sac to throw at a wall to say "i have explored this already"
In real life a human in an unknown environment will create a map where there was none, even if as simple as drawing lines in sand. With the advent of writing implements and paper it became much easier. This is basic human nature, a successful gaming experience will strive to satisfy the exploration gene/behavior by implementing a basic exploration strategy, mapping.
In the 23rd century it seems likely that a stranded individual would be provided a way to create a map. I would suggest Fabricating a player worn transponder that facilitates mapping relative to an absolute point of reference such as a non-re-locatable beacon or the mother ship beacon. The simple alternative would be to reveal those map areas explored without such a transponder or other device.
FarSky has a good mapping system where you start out with a blank map that fills in as one explores. This works well.
If the player is expected to create their own map (out of game) then a unit of distance traveled is needed in Subnautica.
Re: Beacons
If I were coding the Beacons I would have them display textual data as a Compass overlay only when centered zero degrees relative (to player) provided player has compass. Magnetic bearing is known so not needed in Beacon Data. The needed data is... Beacon ID (or color), Distance, perhaps a user entered short comment.
Color Code is a very good idea, reduces text and confusion.
Should Beacons be limited in quantity? One can always repurpose one when needed. If this is the case then Beacon ID or description should be editable. For example, "Lava Cave" might be changed to "Gold Horde".
Mmaybe an item the Player carries or can pull up to trigger it instead of it being always on
Also, I like that it is disorienting. It will take many hours to learn the map and become familiar, but I plan on spending many hours in this game. Once a map becomes fully learned, the fun begins to decline (cue teraforming and community maps). The process of building a mental map of the world is a fundamental concept that makes video games enjoyable to begin with.
Beacons, maps etc, are not what we are asking for. Just a small differentiation in the vegetation towards the edges of the biomes will solve the issue the OP raised.
I was actually asking for something slightly different from that. Look at this map.
You start in the center of the map. Every direction you go, the biomes you encounter are the same. This makes it impossible to determine which cardinal direction you've gone by what biomes you've encountered, and impossible to get any intuitive sense of direction.
What if certain fish/sea beings naturally navigated back to their homes/nests/whatever? The players learns which kinds of fish do this, then, when they find themselves in an area they want to return to, snatch one up before heading home. Once they've resupplied, they head out, let the fish go, and follow it back.
Now, this doesn't do anything a beacon wouldn't, and it's obviously not as reliable (the fish isn't going to wait around for you, and there's always the possibility it's going to get eaten by something) but it fits nicely into the theme of trying to work with the environment to survive, and provides a slightly roundabout way to 'mark' an area you happen across while exploring.
Would be cool if you could add this to the to-do list for the next update
I agree regarding the radial layout.. it entirely sabotages navigating by cardinal direction and removes what could have been recognizable landmarks.
I hadn't even realised about the map. I just thought I was always going in the same direction :P